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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 19, 2018 12:41:49 GMT -5
Sufficient exposure, motivation and desire to work on their own, and good coaching that fits the style of the athlete...yes. Not everyone, but many of them. I have seen too many people make huge jumps in their quality under the right conditions and sufficient motivation and effort to believe that it isn't possible. As an aside, I do have to say that the overall recruiting process of women's soccer (and other sports) may contribute to not having the player they thought they had. When you recruit as freshman and sophomores sometimes things change. As players get older some plateau and some improve. You may not always get at 18-22 years old what you thought you saw at 15-16. I agree wholeheartedly with the section that I put in bold above. Let's use Brian Moore as the example here. I've known Brian for many years and watched several of his youth teams excel. I give him a lot of the credit for the success of these teams. That said, it took a certain type of player to respond to Brian's coaching. He yelled, screamed, was sarcastic, and generally refused to accept any lack of effort or concentration from his players at any moment. Those players that could not respond to this style of coaching were either dropped from the team at the next tryouts or left the team on their own.
I know several (now) young women who left Brian's teams because of his coaching. They were "good enough" to be on the teams, but they just couldn't stand playing for him.
I don't know how he coaches at UGA. If he coaches in the same manner that he did with his most successful teams at the youth level, I expect that there are players who just won't respond.
Both the method of coaching matters and the style of play. I agree that many kids can't stand screaming and I don't think it is necessary either. I am not knowledgeable about how the UGA coaches coach (screaming, belittling, etc).
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Post by Goalkeeper Dad on Oct 19, 2018 14:05:02 GMT -5
In my opinion I definitely think it is coaching. Like what has been stated he has good to great players but is not getting anything out of them. That is what True coaches do as well as the X and O's. But with that being said who can UGA get that would be able to work with our current girls and also be able to establish and grow a better relationship with the clubs in Georgia? As stated many of our girls our leaving the state to play outside the state. I can only talk about what I see but Vandy has 3-4 Tophat girls Alabama has 1-2 South Carolina has 1 and outside the SEC Samford has 5 starters from Tophat alone. I can only image how many he has lost out from Concorde and UFA.
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Post by zizou on Oct 19, 2018 14:19:43 GMT -5
Perhaps I was not clear. I agree that people get better with practice. But my contention is that for many of these players no amount of practice is going to make them SEC quality. If you watch them play and think they can become SEC quality with sufficient exposure then that is where we disagree. Sufficient exposure, motivation and desire to work on their own, and good coaching that fits the style of the athlete...yes. Not everyone, but many of them. I have seen too many people make huge jumps in their quality under the right conditions and sufficient motivation and effort to believe that it isn't possible. As an aside, I do have to say that the overall recruiting process of women's soccer (and other sports) may contribute to not having the player they thought they had. When you recruit as freshman and sophomores sometimes things change. As players get older some plateau and some improve. You may not always get at 18-22 years old what you thought you saw at 15-16. We just differ in our assessments of these players. I agree coaching is a problem at UGA but, from my eye, even Pep is not going to make some of these players SEC quality. Although I have no doubt they could and would improve with excellent coaching.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 19, 2018 16:51:05 GMT -5
Sufficient exposure, motivation and desire to work on their own, and good coaching that fits the style of the athlete...yes. Not everyone, but many of them. I have seen too many people make huge jumps in their quality under the right conditions and sufficient motivation and effort to believe that it isn't possible. As an aside, I do have to say that the overall recruiting process of women's soccer (and other sports) may contribute to not having the player they thought they had. When you recruit as freshman and sophomores sometimes things change. As players get older some plateau and some improve. You may not always get at 18-22 years old what you thought you saw at 15-16. We just differ in our assessments of these players. I agree coaching is a problem at UGA but, from my eye, even Pep is not going to make some of these players SEC quality. Although I have no doubt they could and would improve with excellent coaching. Yup. I guess I am just more of an optimist than you are. I believe if you gave me a year with Pep he could make me SEC quality at my current age (over 40)!! LOL! I am personally not that impressed with the quality of college soccer players anyways.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Oct 19, 2018 22:45:05 GMT -5
UGA is a good school but academically not as strong as Stanford, Vandy, Duke, etc. I think they have good enough players that for whatever reason are performing up to their capabilities. I know RG and KB from their time at TH, I worked with MB in high school, you don't set the high school career goal scoring record and be the SE region ECNL top scorer without some level of ability and she can't get on the field which is puzzling. Mollie Belisle tore her ACL during pre-season. She was playing very well and was very much in the plans for this year prior to being injured. Thank you for the update- that's terrible news, did not know she was injured.
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Post by Soccer Dad on Oct 20, 2018 9:02:54 GMT -5
All the talk about players who can or cannot play is relevant, but when a team goes seven (7) games without a goal...yet you keep doing the same things with the same people, you have a major coaching problem. I feel sorry for the players. They are not being put in a place to have success. Watch their set pieces! It is embarrassingly bad.
Not sure what happened to BL or BM when they got to Athens, but they have embarrassed themselves with the lack of creativity. I thought Bama and UK would be lock wins this year. Now, I am very concerned for the Dawgs Sunday.
You cannot win if you cannot score. The game is pretty simple that way.
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Post by Soccer Dad on Oct 22, 2018 7:55:43 GMT -5
So the dawgs tied Bama on Sunday and are once again staying home for post season play. Completely unacceptable considering their history as a program, population of metro area, and overall support for the program.But I will give credit to the staff for finally shaking up their formation and style. This team looked much better. Without calling out players, I will say the last ten minutes of the first half and the first 20 minutes of the 2nd half were some of the best attacking movement we have seen in the past seven weeks. Too bad they waited this long to make these changes.
The Head Coaches and staffs of Vandy, Bama and UGA were all hired at the same time. Vandy is ranked in the top ten and is currently #1 in the SEC. Bama made the NCAAs last year (and they never were any good) and could make Orange Beach for a record third time in a row. UGA? After NCAA appearances before the hire of BL and BM, will, for the 3rd year in row, watch the games on the SEC Network.
Let's all see what message the athletic administration has for all the young girls in the area about the importance of women's soccer at Georgia. Soccer is a growing sport. Do the right thing and move on from this staff Georgia. The young girls in metro Atlanta deserve better.
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Post by fridge on Oct 22, 2018 13:59:09 GMT -5
I say it is a close call, but I think they should get one more year as another change will put the program back even further for several years. Here is why:
1. Ask anyone affiliated with the team and they will say that the talent cupboard was bare and has been bare. 2. This is proven by the fact that yesterday only 3 sr. were on the team--and didn't play. 3. Of the 11 starters, 6 were sophomores and 5 were freshman. Who else is doing that??? 4. Of the 4 subs, 2 were juniors the rest younger. (If the team had sufficient upper class men talent they most certainly would play them--unless these guys want to get fired.) 5. Their first true recruiting class is this year's freshman class. (These coaches got hired at Christmas 2015 when the 2016 class was mostly recruited and so, the sophomores on this team were around later in the recruiting process for whatever reason). 6. This year, with their players, the team made strides. Most around this program would say that this year s games were much more competitive. If UGA had one more goal scorer (a very good striker who scored a handful goals last year as a freshman was out w/ an ACL) and got a handful of goals from someone, they could have won 3 or 4 more games. 7. They have done ok recruiting in ATL. Their starters included 2 CF, 1 TH, 1 CF/TH/Jax and the other center back is from ATL. (not sure which club) 8. As for GA top talent, the top girls can play where ever they want as money is not much of a factor and many opt for ACC for style of play. (Vandy as SEC has an advantage due its very top academics and it finally got a coach to sell that huge advantage.)
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Post by 111aaa on Oct 22, 2018 16:24:20 GMT -5
Does Vandy have an academic advantage?
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Post by 111aaa on Oct 22, 2018 16:27:10 GMT -5
I know kids in Atlanta that have been torn between Ivy league and Georgia.
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Post by zizou on Oct 22, 2018 18:08:50 GMT -5
I say it is a close call, but I think they should get one more year as another change will put the program back even further for several years. Here is why: 1. Ask anyone affiliated with the team and they will say that the talent cupboard was bare and has been bare. 2. This is proven by the fact that yesterday only 3 sr. were on the team--and didn't play. 3. Of the 11 starters, 6 were sophomores and 5 were freshman. Who else is doing that??? 4. Of the 4 subs, 2 were juniors the rest younger. (If the team had sufficient upper class men talent they most certainly would play them--unless these guys want to get fired.) 5. Their first true recruiting class is this year's freshman class. (These coaches got hired at Christmas 2015 when the 2016 class was mostly recruited and so, the sophomores on this team were around later in the recruiting process for whatever reason). 6. This year, with their players, the team made strides. Most around this program would say that this year s games were much more competitive. If UGA had one more goal scorer (a very good striker who scored a handful goals last year as a freshman was out w/ an ACL) and got a handful of goals from someone, they could have won 3 or 4 more games. 7. They have done ok recruiting in ATL. Their starters included 2 CF, 1 TH, 1 CF/TH/Jax and the other center back is from ATL. (not sure which club) 8. As for GA top talent, the top girls can play where ever they want as money is not much of a factor and many opt for ACC for style of play. (Vandy as SEC has an advantage due its very top academics and it finally got a coach to sell that huge advantage.) I understand people have different opinions about this. BL and his family probably would find it hard to move. Players recruited by the current staff probably have loyalty to them. The limitations of UGA soccer under the current staff have been discussed repeatedly. Soccer Dad has done a particularly nice job. We have also covered the recruiting ground before. It is a fallacy that the cupboard was bare when current staff arrived. See these previous posts: gasoccerforum.com/post/17756gasoccerforum.com/post/27270The reason the cupboard may have appeared to be bare is that the good players saw who UGA hired and left. Then highly rated verbally committed players for future years (committed to the previous staff) changed their commitments when they saw who UGA hired. As I have stated previously, South Carolina has a total of 1 Senior and 7 Juniors. They play mostly Freshman and Sophomores. They don't cry about being young. They are also a top 10 team because the coaches are good and know how to evaluate, recruit, and coach up talented players. I would also point out that Duke has been good for some time, but they have been very very good for the last 4 years after BL came here and Duke hired a different main assistant. Also just facts. I hope UGA know what they need to do and do it sooner rather than later. The trends are not good. Next year's publicly available recruiting class information indicates there is not going to be an increase in UGA recruiting ranking. And this is a team that desperately needs impact players. Another year of this may totally destroy this program rather than leaving it mostly destroyed. Keeping this staff another year may mean at least another year removed from recovery.
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Post by fridge on Oct 23, 2018 8:15:55 GMT -5
Zizou always brings a strong case. (I will deny the implication that I have any skin the UGA game--I don't besides knowing a handful of kids in that program.) And, I know being on this side of the argument as related to UGA is tough. That said, I recall Zizou two years ago bragging on how well Alabama did in that staff's first year. Of course, 2 years later, they aren't doing very well either. Further, South Carolina is not a fair comparison. That staff has been around forever and so, are established with higher level talent/recruits. Also, I am not sure how it can be the UGA's staff's fault if Holeman's best player transferred as a Jr I believe to an established UF team after his termination. I will say the transfer and a recent de-commit seriously hurt the program. At the end of the day, UGA has to improve, but I think they are one very good mid and one very good striker from turning the corner (like most programs). In conclusion, it's a close call on what happens and I won't be surprised either way.
(PS to the post above, yes Vandy (ranked #14) has a large academic advantage over UGA (ranked #46) especially nationally.)
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Post by zizou on Oct 23, 2018 9:12:32 GMT -5
I recall Zizou two years ago bragging on how well Alabama did in that staff's first year. Of course, 2 years later, they aren't doing very well either. Further, South Carolina is not a fair comparison. That staff has been around forever and so, are established with higher level talent/recruits. Also, I am not sure how it can be the UGA's staff's fault if Holeman's best player transferred as a Jr I believe to an established UF team after his termination. I will say the transfer and a recent de-commit seriously hurt the program. At the end of the day, UGA has to improve, but I think they are one very good mid and one very good striker from turning the corner (like most programs). In conclusion, it's a close call on what happens and I won't be surprised either way. (PS to the post above, yes Vandy (ranked #14) has a large academic advantage over UGA (ranked #46) especially nationally.) My point about Bama is that based on historical expectation I like what they are doing. They are 8-7-3 right now with Massey Index of 63 (SOS of 54 but they have already played Kentucky). Georgia are at 4-8-5 with Massey Index of 87 (SOS of 26 but they have yet to play Kentucky). They are performing below historical expectation (don't forget that Baker also had this program humming; that whole situation was truly sad). Anyway, Bama has chance to make SEC Tourney. Georgia is done. I will take what Bama has done and are doing compared to UGA. I hope UGA turn it around. Holeman's 2 best players left, the other went to Harvard. By the way, Holeman won the Southland in his second year at Lamar (LAMAR!!!) and made the NCAAs. They are in second in Southland right now with another shot at NCAAs. He can coach circles around this current staff, and it is not even close. And of course the current staff are at fault for players departing/not coming. Well, really the AD's office for making the hire. Those players would have stayed for a different staff. We can disagree on personnel, but for my eye they are way farther away than you are assuming. They do not have a single difference maker at the SEC level. Some good players yes, but no difference makers. I do not see that changing with upcoming recruiting class. I hope I am wrong.
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Post by Soccer Dad on Oct 24, 2018 7:00:35 GMT -5
Zizou is 100% spot on.
To an earlier post, every team is always one striker, or one midfielder, or one defender away from greatness. But what you do with your actual talent is the key (and your job).
By the way, if they tie or lose to Kentucky, can we all agree they should be fired before they get to the plane?
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DOOM
Jr. Academy
Posts: 72
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Post by DOOM on Oct 24, 2018 10:35:08 GMT -5
Yes...sooner if possible.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 25, 2018 21:36:07 GMT -5
UGA lost to Kentucky. Fire staff or no?
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Post by Soccer Dad on Oct 26, 2018 8:29:32 GMT -5
No words.
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Post by zizou on Oct 26, 2018 10:17:58 GMT -5
That was going to be my exact same post. No joke. Sad thing is I think the AD thinks the program is improving and it is highly unlikely they will make a change. If that is really the case, the program will be even more dead than it already is. Right now it is only mostly dead. One more year of this and program will be all dead.
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Post by paterfamilias on Oct 26, 2018 14:47:18 GMT -5
Have fun stormin' the castle.
If we have devolved to movie references then there is no doubt the program is irrelevant. We are just amusing ourselves now.
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Post by zizou on Oct 29, 2018 8:08:36 GMT -5
Well, maybe more than 3 people do care about UGA women's soccer. If you really wanted to do something, you could start by: 1. Developing a series of logical and rational arguments for why the AA should not wait to make a change. Venting does not count. And I mean a carefully considered argument with specific points of emphasis that does not require simply personal opinion or invocation of your specific "expert" status. Those kind of arguments are too easy to dismiss. 2. I would make the arguments completely devoid of emotion although having passion for the program and wanting it to succeed obviously matters. 3. I would put them in an email and send to Stephanie Ransom in the Athletics Administration office Stephanie Ransom Contact Info
4. Then I would prepare yourself for disappointment because I doubt they will do anything. But one can always hope.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 29, 2018 8:31:11 GMT -5
Just send them a polite email stating that something must be wrong, you can not find the Georgia Women's soccer team listed anywhere on the SEC tournament schedule. Just ask them to clarify why when you look at the bracket, why isn't Georgia listed? www.secsports.com/bracket/soccer
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Post by Soccer Dad on Oct 29, 2018 13:24:34 GMT -5
At the fields the other night, someone mentioned that Stephanie used to play for Brian Moore. Is that correct? Based on her resume, I would assume she has a good understanding of soccer. If they keep BL, it is because they don't want to pay a buyout for women's soccer. No way she can think he is doing a good job. Nobody does.
Also, not sure club kids are really excited about going to UGA. This is the biggest concern. Why would a stud sophomore commit to UGA with the immediate track history of the staff? Coaches change, then commitments get canceled, then you are left looking for money at other institutions.
Not a good spot to be in if you are UGA.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Oct 30, 2018 13:19:55 GMT -5
What kind of contract/buyout does BL have left? He's been there like 3 years right? Surely they haven't been extending his contract with the results they've been having...
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Post by zizou on Oct 30, 2018 13:49:10 GMT -5
What kind of contract/buyout does BL have left? He's been there like 3 years right? Surely they haven't been extending his contract with the results they've been having... Four years. He has presided over the worst 4 year record in the history of the program. By a large margin. I assume he had a five year deal. I assume there is very little buyout except whatever remains on his contract.
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Post by Soccer Dad on Oct 31, 2018 8:12:19 GMT -5
I do not know this for sure, but my understanding is that BL has a five year deal and the assistants have a four year deal. The assistants deal should expire on their hire date.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Nov 1, 2018 11:01:46 GMT -5
If there's only 1 year left on his contract, it should be a done deal.
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Post by mistergrinch on Nov 1, 2018 14:38:22 GMT -5
I know kids in Atlanta that have been torn between Ivy league and Georgia. Then you know kids who have no clue and/or don't want to leave the 'sweet tea and biscuits' belt.
Georgia is good academically, but really hasn't been for all that long. If the kids want to get out and see the rest of the country, there's no contest between having Georgia vs an Ivy on your resume.
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Post by Soccer Dad on Nov 6, 2018 15:37:30 GMT -5
Ch-ch-ch-changes
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Post by rifle on Nov 6, 2018 17:14:31 GMT -5
Fired?
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Post by Soccer Dad on Nov 7, 2018 13:51:54 GMT -5
one of the player parents said that BM was out. Sounds like they hung the poor performance on him. That's just total bs. I'm telling you, UGA doesnt want to pay a buyout even though they know it is going nowhere.
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