Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2015 22:45:13 GMT -5
AFC Lightning 04 Gold (U12) playing u13 Classic V West This has to be a joke? The teams they are playing are basically rec teams? DDYSC 04 Wolves playing Classic IV u13 also. Is it April fools day.... These coaches should be ashamed of themselves and be embarrassed. The clubs should even be more embarrassed. They are opting out of a u12 academy schedule to play rec soccer basically.
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Post by Keeper on Aug 10, 2015 23:41:51 GMT -5
AFC Lightning 04 Gold (U12) playing u13 Classic V West This has to be a joke? The teams they are playing are basically rec teams? DDYSC 04 Wolves playing Classic IV u13 also. Is it April fools day.... These coaches should be ashamed of themselves and be embarrassed. The clubs should even be more embarrassed. They are opting out of a u12 academy schedule to play rec soccer basically. You obviously know nothing about rec soccer if you are comparing the select levels to u14 rec. And there's a lot of smaller clubs that have pushed U12 teams to Classic 4/5 and Athena D/E because they can't get academy games scheduled.
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Post by allthingsoccer on Aug 11, 2015 7:25:23 GMT -5
Its a hard choice but your right jumpjumpkeep311, no rescheduled games. Cant justify playing just only 4 games in the Spring because its such a hassle to reschedule academy games. Teams have no choice but to put themselves into classic to make sure the teams get games in.
If we had a managed schedule for U12's this wouldn't happen.
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Post by soccerdad44 on Aug 11, 2015 7:33:12 GMT -5
And there's a lot of smaller clubs that have pushed U12 teams to Classic 4/5 and Athena D/E because they can't get academy games scheduled. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Why wouldn't they be able to get games scheduled? In my experience, the lower the team, the bigger, more fouling they are. Very dangerous IMO to play up in those divisions. I cannot imagine how that will help development playing against bigger, less skilled kids. I believe there are plenty enough U12s playing 11v11 outside of classic. I can understand playing classic 2, but this sure sounds like a marketing gimmick used to impress parents.
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Post by soccergator on Aug 11, 2015 7:37:01 GMT -5
I think you took his sarcasm a little to seriously. Its obviously not the equivalent of rec soccer. However, this same AFC team is in one of the top brackets in the NASA tourney, no top u12 team should be playing Classic V -- period. AFC's team can't play with the big boys, but they aren't bad and playing at such a low level isn't beneficial to them or the teams they play. And AFC doesn't have problems scheduling teams, we've played them every season for almost 3 years. AFC is not a small club and that is not a justification.
I can see DDYSC having some issues scheduling games being a smaller club. Would be interesting to see how that team looks at 11v11 now.
The classic V south makes a little more sense, some u12 teams, but teams that would have trouble finding games. UFA South Georgia, Macon, and a team from Warner Robins.
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shapo
Jr. Academy
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Post by shapo on Aug 11, 2015 7:46:24 GMT -5
Kind of off topic...but can someone explain how the Classic/Athena brackets are put toghter? Do the clubs submit requests? Who reviews the requests? etc...As I've mentuion on other threads, my daughter's u12 team is playing up in Athena B and I'm still not clear what, if any, guidelines exisit in this area.
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Post by allthingsoccer on Aug 11, 2015 7:55:46 GMT -5
I think you took his sarcasm a little to seriously. Its obviously not the equivalent of rec soccer. However, this same AFC team is in one of the top brackets in the NASA tourney, no top u12 team should be playing Classic V -- period. AFC's team can't play with the big boys, but they aren't bad and playing at such a low level isn't beneficial to them or the teams they play. And AFC doesn't have problems scheduling teams, we've played them every season for almost 3 years. AFC is not a small club and that is not a justification. I can see DDYSC having some issues scheduling games being a smaller club. Would be interesting to see how that team looks at 11v11 now. The classic V south makes a little more sense, some u12 teams, but teams that would have trouble finding games. UFA South Georgia, Macon, and a team from Warner Robins. They do get the games scheduled and plenty of good U12 talent to get some good games in. I think it would have to do with rescheduling games. If the games get canceled it seems like a hassle to get them rescheduled.
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Post by SoccerMom on Aug 11, 2015 8:09:00 GMT -5
And there's a lot of smaller clubs that have pushed U12 teams to Classic 4/5 and Athena D/E because they can't get academy games scheduled. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Why wouldn't they be able to get games scheduled? Academy games are not rescheduled when cancelled. When you play select all games have to be played
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Post by SoccerMom on Aug 11, 2015 8:09:44 GMT -5
Kind of off topic...but can someone explain how the Classic/Athena brackets are put toghter? Do the clubs submit requests? Who reviews the requests? etc...As I've mentuion on other threads, my daughter's u12 team is playing up in Athena B and I'm still not clear what, if any, guidelines exisit in this area. Yes, your club made this request and then reviewed by GA soccer
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leem
Jr. Academy
Posts: 21
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Post by leem on Aug 12, 2015 8:07:35 GMT -5
Didn't they play in the Academy Cup? Isn't that the seeding venue for U12 teams playing up to Select? Our 02/03 team didn't do the Cup in 2014 and had to start from CL-5 last fall. Some games were good, some blowouts, but they learned to play against older, bigger & faster teams. They also learned that when you juke one of those players, you better get the pass off before the hammer comes down.
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Post by touchlinedad on Aug 13, 2015 10:41:40 GMT -5
In looking at all the Classic brackets, I count 10 U12 teams playing U13 Select this fall. Here they are by bracket: Classic 2 Concorde Fire 04 North Elite (12) Concorde Fire 04 Central Elite
Classic 3 East: GSA 04 Premier Classic 4 East: DDYSC 04 Wolves Elite
Classic 5 South UFA South Georgia 04 Premier CGSA Strikers BU12 Macon United (U12B) Old Capitol SL B12
Classic 5 East - Augusta Arsenal 04 Gold Classic 5 West: AFC Lightning 04 Gold (U12)
I'm sure there are some U13 coaches who are highly annoyed about this. But having seen some of these teams play, they are ready for larger fields and 11v11. The 2 Concorde teams played in the U13 2nd Division at the Nike Cup and the North team won it. And in the upcoming SSA tournament, four of the six teams in the top U13 boys bracket are U12 boys. I bet the thinking behind playing up is to get the experience at playing 11v11 in preparation for playing U13 Classic 1 in the fall of 2016.
The Academy scheduling process is difficult, especially for smaller clubs who have good teams that want to play against bigger clubs. When a club has 2 or 3 U12 teams and wants to play against Concorde or SSA, they still have to find games for all of their U12 teams and that can be difficult. Consequently, the smaller clubs tends to play each other and if one club's top team is really good, they end up playing a bunch of weaker teams and can't play up against an older team because U13s are in Select and can't play Academy games.
However, if the switch to calendar year occurs in the next two years, all these teams will be torn apart, so all this might be a moot point. And if U.S. Soccer does switch to calendar year, I hope they decide to grandfather in the older teams so teams that have played together for multiple years so that doesn't happen. Maybe state soccer associations should push to start the calendar year process with the incoming U9's in 2016 or 2017.
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Post by Cleansheets on Aug 13, 2015 10:56:42 GMT -5
Will the AFC Lightning 04 team be playing in the Disney Jr. Showcase in November? Saw this team play in SuperCopa in Dallas. Did not get a chance to play them, however, not a bad little team.
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Post by allthingsoccer on Aug 13, 2015 11:21:27 GMT -5
I havent seen them play before. I looked at the Copa lineups and didnt see them listed. I might be looking at the wrong one. I know AFC's U13 team is pretty good.
I see that they are playing in the NASA tournament what looks like to be the group of death. Should be a great tournament. Some high quality U12 teams.
Bracket A
FC ALLIANCE 04 BOYS BLACK (TN)
NASA B22 ELITE (GA)
SOUTHERN SSA CHELSEA 04B PREDATOR BLUE 2 (GA)
DDYSC 04 WOLVES ELITE (GA)
Bracket B AFC LIGHTNING '04 BOYS GOLD (GA)
SOUTHERN SSA CHELSEA 04B PREDATOR BLUE (GA)
UNITED FUTBOL ACADEMY UFA 04 PREMIER (GA)
CONCORDE FIRE NORTH 04 ELITE (GA)
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Post by soccerfan30 on Aug 13, 2015 11:43:29 GMT -5
This surely a joke right?
The top 15 U12 Teams are better than any team in Classic V. Other than scheduling issues for Academy games no one can give a legitimate reason that this is for development purposes.
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Post by rifle on Aug 13, 2015 13:16:00 GMT -5
As a paying patron of many years, I find club soccer fairly ridiculous.
I'm sure "11 year olds playing up" will be looked back upon in many years.. as the tipping point for our national team improving to "world class".
Is there a sarcasm emoticon?
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Post by Cleansheets on Aug 13, 2015 18:32:25 GMT -5
As a paying patron of many years, I find club soccer fairly ridiculous. I'm sure "11 year olds playing up" will be looked back upon in many years.. as the tipping point for our national team improving to "world class". Is there a sarcasm emoticon? All playing up does is give you a pat on the back when you win and a built in excuse when you lose.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 14, 2015 7:18:22 GMT -5
As a paying patron of many years, I find club soccer fairly ridiculous. I'm sure "11 year olds playing up" will be looked back upon in many years.. as the tipping point for our national team improving to "world class". Is there a sarcasm emoticon? All playing up does is give you a pat on the back when you win and a built in excuse when you lose. The solution in the future is to establish a table structure for 9v9 u12s in the future. Form a large committee with representation from each club who is interested in playing in this proposed table (where standings are not kept, just results) and they hash it out. Anyone coaching or involved with these age groups can honestly tell you the top squads are and how to split up teams etc. For purpose of this if you need 2 groups you call the groups Georgia Soccer Red and the other Georgia Soccer White, something that doesn't assume a hierarchical structure. My biggest problem with teams currently doing it is I know at least one of the teams has play ups. A playup that this year would be playing 8v8, but instead is playing 11v11 against kids 2 years older. In my opinion and others I have spoken with involved in US soccer, they don't agree with this for development of a kid who is currently 10 years old as of Aug 1st.
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Post by Cleansheets on Aug 14, 2015 10:27:42 GMT -5
Hey Soccerhouse, give me your thoughts on this topic. Correct me if I am wrong but do your girls start 11v11 at u13 or u14. Just generally speaking, cause I know some teams start playing up like we are talking about. Do you think teams from SoCal and NTX have an advantage? Most girls from those areas have been playing 11v11 since u10. Heck some even younger! Don't get me wrong there are just as many against it as there are for it here in NTX. I also know that change is on the horizon concerning this.
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Post by stevieg on Aug 14, 2015 10:31:26 GMT -5
Hey Soccerhouse, give me your thoughts on this topic. Correct me if I am wrong but do your girls start 11v11 at u13 or u14. Just generally speaking, cause I know some teams start playing up like we are talking about. Do you think teams from SoCal and NTX have an advantage? Most girls from those areas have been playing 11v11 since u10. Heck some even younger! Don't get me wrong there are just as many against it as there are for it here in NTX. I also know that change is on the horizon concerning this. Most of the top girls teams start playing 11v11 at U12 and many go 11v11 (playing up in tournaments) at the end of U11 in preparation for that. The 2nd and 3rd teams and the smaller clubs stay 8v8 at U12, but all go to 11v11 at U13.
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Post by Cleansheets on Aug 14, 2015 10:44:48 GMT -5
Hey Soccerhouse, give me your thoughts on this topic. Correct me if I am wrong but do your girls start 11v11 at u13 or u14. Just generally speaking, cause I know some teams start playing up like we are talking about. Do you think teams from SoCal and NTX have an advantage? Most girls from those areas have been playing 11v11 since u10. Heck some even younger! Don't get me wrong there are just as many against it as there are for it here in NTX. I also know that change is on the horizon concerning this. Most of the top girls teams start playing 11v11 at U12 and many go 11v11 (playing up in tournaments) at the end of U11 in preparation for that. The 2nd and 3rd teams and the smaller clubs stay 8v8 at U12, but all go to 11v11 at U13. Thanks for the correction, good to know. What is your opinion on this? Do you think there is an advantage or possibly a disadvantage? I know starting so early on the big field does sometimes cause players to focus more on the longer passes. They get away from working the ball in close.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 14, 2015 11:16:14 GMT -5
If the goal is to win, then yes, these teams probably would have an advantage. However, for the big picture in development of players I would say its a disadvantage. The big thing I see is, when kids move to 11v11, its not like when we were kids, and we crowded 22 people on a 8v8 or smaller pitch, these kids play on giant fields. Obviously for some, some kids are built for the big field, but the vast majority just physically aren't ready for the larger pitch. Not even discussing the entire number of touches subject, its about physically being able to do what is expected of a left mid for example in a 4-5-1. Asking a 10 year old to play that outside left mid spot would be a challenge for sure. Can the kids mentally understand what their roles are and then perform at the level thats necessary to be productive, while also having to run up and down a full size field! (And when I think of development, I'm not just thinking of soccer development. I think of it as development and maturing off the field as well, since most of our kids will stop playing soccer before they go to college. ie all the benefits of playing competitive sports).
I think that is where it comes in, many teams jump to 8v8, 11v11 sooner not for the right reasons, but rather to gain a competitive advantage. The race is on for sure here in Georgia. Some top u9 teams switch to 8s in the spring of u9!! The standard seems to be top teams in age group are making the switch at each age bump like mentioned above. Which only sets back non-top team players as well. The standard around for top teams has been u8/u9 - 6v6 u10 - 8v8 u11 - 8v8 u12 - 11v11 Some clubs the past few years have tried to stick with 8v8, but have found its a challenge to schedule competitive games and you also always end up in the "lesser" brackets in tournaments. Tough call.
I personally don't mind u12s playing 11v11, the future is 9v9, and i expect some clubs will just ignore and stick with 11v11. The 8v8/9v9 game is a great game, lots of touches for kids, opportunities for kids to be creative while still focusing on shape/possession/passing etc. The game can be dominated by larger more physical kids, and results can be won by punting on smaller fields vs building from the back. Kids in my opinion grow out of 6v6 quickly, your only talking 5 field players, so when a player receives the ball, their options are extremely limited when compared to 8v8 or 9v9.
I think play-ups typically struggle most with the transitions from 6s, to 8s to 11s etc, mostly because mental immaturity not soccer ability. Parents then become stubborn with having their child play in the appropriate lower age group because of perception of no longer being the stud play up etc.. (another entire topic).
but in summary, I think all the big cities have a major advantage, ie texas clubs and atlanta clubs. We have an amazing amount of competition that pushes clubs and players to be better. If your not pushing the envelope in some manner, your club will lose players to a club 3 miles away. It also comes down to player pool. Development or not, play ups or not, winning or not caring, you have to have players. Great coaches can only do so much.
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Post by Cleansheets on Aug 14, 2015 11:48:19 GMT -5
Great thoughts!
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Post by dreaddy on Sept 14, 2015 15:21:52 GMT -5
Hate to hash this up again, but on the original topic, I noticed that the team in question has scored 23 goals without conceding in their first two games this weekend. Surely, placing them in Classic V was a cruel joke by Georgia Soccer?
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Post by soccerfan30 on Sept 14, 2015 20:19:44 GMT -5
U12 Columbus Red Star Elite and U12 CGSA girls both playing U13 Athena D and are blowing out the competition. A clubs top team should not he playing against 3rd or 4th teams. It's possible they finish 1 and 2 and move up during the Spring. The flip side is I feel bad for the third place team, had those two U12 teams not been there they would probably move up and now will have to spend another season in D.
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Post by dreaddy on Sept 14, 2015 20:23:44 GMT -5
What they really should have done is to take all of those U12 teams and put them in their own division.
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Post by cantgetright on Sept 14, 2015 22:01:16 GMT -5
Our team is a top U12 team and it was decided that we would only play select U12 teams playing 11v11 this season. The reason given was that our games against top U12 competition would be a better style of a game(passing) as opposed to playing older less skilled oppostion resulting in kick and run or just long ball. Actually I am happy our club made this decision.
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Post by putmeincoach on Sept 15, 2015 9:29:17 GMT -5
That CFC team is very good and could probably play B, but I'm sure since their name isn't "Concorde" they had to start from the bottom. They will destroy the D teams.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Sept 15, 2015 10:16:15 GMT -5
That CFC team is very good and could probably play B, but I'm sure since their name isn't "Concorde" they had to start from the bottom. They will destroy the D teams. My suggestion would be to play in the Academy Cup and prove it against the perceived top teams, do well in the first or second bracket no one would deny their ability to be placed accordingly
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Post by Keeper on Sept 15, 2015 10:26:36 GMT -5
My suggestion would be to play in the Academy Cup and prove it against the perceived top teams, do well in the first or second bracket no one would deny their ability to be placed accordingly I believe they did play in Academy Cup and were finalist in the second division. Columbus typically have their top u12 girls team play u13 and dominate in D/E but the state won't put them in a B or C where they belong. Just another reason for Ga Soccer to put together a top u12 9v9 division for next year and make it mandatory to play that division to be eligible for Athena A / Classic 1
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Post by putmeincoach on Sept 15, 2015 11:09:57 GMT -5
I believe they did play in Academy Cup and were finalist in the second division. Columbus typically have their top u12 girls team play u13 and dominate in D/E but the state won't put them in a B or C where they belong. Just another reason for Ga Soccer to put together a top u12 9v9 division for next year and make it mandatory to play that division to be eligible for Athena A / Classic 1 They won Academy Cup (U11 top division last year) the current U13's won the B flight and are in Athena A, but won't do so well. Its the select committee's fault for putting them in D. Look at the SIC rankings and they are top 6 in GA (whatever that means) and now some poor kids have to get humiliated by them in D. I agree they should've created a league and let the chips fall where they may.
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