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Post by Soccerhouse on May 8, 2019 18:05:22 GMT -5
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Post by soccerlegacy on May 8, 2019 18:31:48 GMT -5
I'm not shocked by this, but can't see anything being done about it? That bio-band thing? Meh... it just is what it is, unfortunately.
I first recognized it when my kid tried out for ODP. They had all the kids in the middle of the field and when their name was called, the selected players went to the sideline. One by one the big kids left the center of the field, at the end all the small kids were still there in the center. So blatantly obvious what they were looking for... hint: it wasnt the most talented.
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Post by GameOfThrow-ins on May 8, 2019 18:44:50 GMT -5
Always the case in every sport. No surprises and all parents should know this. Malcolm Galdwell? Outliers? Bueller?
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Post by greenmonkey on May 8, 2019 19:49:41 GMT -5
Hello Age Mandate my old friend LOL
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Post by GameOfThrow-ins on May 8, 2019 20:11:29 GMT -5
Yeah, whatever. Birth year. Like every other sport on the planet. Stop whining.
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Post by Soccerhouse on May 8, 2019 20:57:10 GMT -5
Yeah, whatever. Birth year. Like every other sport on the planet. Stop whining. Disagree - it’s shows the need for 2 age systems like we had before DA - birth year Everyone else - academic year Late bloomers and younger age players could still have opportunity to thrive.
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Post by GameOfThrow-ins on May 8, 2019 21:06:38 GMT -5
That’s fine, but maybe include ECNL too. This “playing with your classmates” angle is BS except on select and rec teams. Most of the people bizatching about this are the same people that enroll their 9 year olds in 1st grade to give them an advantage. Soft.
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Post by justwatching on May 8, 2019 22:00:40 GMT -5
Even if you did grade separation you would have the same thing. The distribution would just shift to start Aug/Sept. Birth year separation doesn't change this.
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Post by atlsoccerdad on May 8, 2019 22:01:42 GMT -5
I'm not shocked by this, but can't see anything being done about it? That bio-band thing? Meh... it just is what it is, unfortunately. I first recognized it when my kid tried out for ODP. They had all the kids in the middle of the field and when their name was called, the selected players went to the sideline. One by one the big kids left the center of the field, at the end all the small kids were still there in the center. So blatantly obvious what they were looking for... hint: it wasnt the most talented. Agreed. I was going to "Like" your comments, but I don't like it. I accept it, but I don't like it. I wish there was a button called "Agree".
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Post by justwatching on May 8, 2019 22:11:41 GMT -5
I don't know if the selection process is looking for the big fast players but I have been around sports for a long time and maybe these coaches go with the thought, you can't teach speed (can improve some) or size. With enough practice skill can be learned... Maybe that is the general philosophy?
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Post by atlsoccerdad on May 9, 2019 7:31:57 GMT -5
Yeah, whatever. Birth year. Like every other sport on the planet. Stop whining. Disagree - it’s shows the need for 2 age systems like we had before DA - birth year Everyone else - academic year Late bloomers and younger age players could still have opportunity to thrive. Honestly birth year is much more fair than academic year. I know many families that hold their kids back when starting school for an athletic advantage (swimming, etc). However I agree: late bloomers and younger age players need a space to develop. It is short sighted for any "development academy" to overlook these kids ...
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Post by slickdaddy96 on May 9, 2019 7:43:51 GMT -5
Even if you did grade separation you would have the same thing. The distribution would just shift to start Aug/Sept. Birth year separation doesn't change this. ^^^^^^This!!!!! It doesn't matter where they decide to start it academic versus birth year. The skew will always happen. Right now it benefits January-May or so birthdates. Previously it helped August-December birthdates. It's always going to be there. Its just a matter of who is going to get screwed, and who has to work their butt off to prove the skew wrong.
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Post by blu on May 9, 2019 8:15:41 GMT -5
I would have liked to see Rec stay school year so classmates could be on the same team. Fine with higher level leagues going calendar year.
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Post by atlfutboldad on May 9, 2019 8:36:18 GMT -5
If a child is born in the last 4 months (1/3 year), they have a 10% chance of making a youth national squad. If they're born in the last 2 months it's a 3% chance. This is around 1/3 the population making up only 10% of rosters.
Im imagining ODP roster breakdowns look similar.
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Post by Soccerhouse on May 9, 2019 8:47:47 GMT -5
I'm just saying that was the beauty of the old days. You had DA on birth year, and everyone else did academic year, hence the younger kids had an opportunity to shine an be noticed in the non DA setting. We still are n't even aligned with the international standard, and the entire thing was a cluster f***. DA had shift up a year 2 years ago to get to a new standard. 2 different matrixes were published and nobody could tell you what age group a 2003 was.
Side note - At the end of the day, all that matters is the senior team. the latest mens team, has birth years 1987 to 1998 on it. The year 1990 was not even represented and on average there is 1.91 men from each birth year 1987 to 1998 on the team. Basically you have to be 1 or 2 of the top players in the world in your birth year that carry a US passport and are US eligible. That is insanity.
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Post by atv on May 9, 2019 12:04:31 GMT -5
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Post by cantgetright on May 9, 2019 12:49:48 GMT -5
I can say that my son is a November B-day. I have seen some kids we know who are very skillful not get picked on the highest of teams(DA,ECNL) due to their size, slowness, and they are also late B-days. My son is not an early bloomer, but he has been able to stay on the highest of teams due to his speed and build. He is usually the fastest player on the field and he is fairly stout with a low center of gravity. He rarely gets knocked off the ball when challenged. If he did not have his speed, he would probably be in the same boat as some of his friends. Regarding the article and concept of picking the earliest of birth year kids, I believe it is 100% true. I have witnessed it all. The bio-banding is a good idea, I wonder how that will work out in the coming years. My son has played against bigger kids his whole life and is better for it, but again, his speed has helped him quite a bit.
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Post by soccerdad76 on May 9, 2019 16:20:22 GMT -5
The problem is bio-banding is subjective, and then there will be unhappy uXX parents/kids that uXX+1 kids are taking top uXX spots, cutting weight to bio-band, lawsuits for those denied, etc. It’s hard to argue with a birth certificate.
In the end some will always benefit more than others no matter what method is used.
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Post by atv on May 9, 2019 16:54:38 GMT -5
I guarantee if someone ran the statistics at any youth soccer club in Atlanta the statistics would support this. Probably the most skewed is boys DA.
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Post by thisonedude on May 9, 2019 17:54:04 GMT -5
I guarantee if someone ran the statistics at any youth soccer club in Atlanta the statistics would support this. Probably the most skewed in boys DA. USSDA used to list birthdates for players. Now, only birth year is noted.
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Post by jjfutebol on May 9, 2019 22:30:07 GMT -5
How does bio-banding work? Are some DAs using it on a regular basis or is it limited to certain tournaments?
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Post by ultimatedad on May 10, 2019 2:30:31 GMT -5
Why not split the age groups to six monthintervals in the early years? U6 u6.5 u7 u7.5 ect.
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Post by soccerfan30 on May 10, 2019 10:54:42 GMT -5
When we were at ODP Region Camp we saw a slide presentation that showed 70% of the total region pool had birthdays that fell within the first six months.
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Post by atlfutboldad on May 10, 2019 11:14:40 GMT -5
Why not split the age groups to six monthintervals in the early years? U6 u6.5 u7 u7.5 ect. Club soccer could adopt this but it's similar to having at least an A and B team. Some clubs have C-F teams where if you look at the rosters i would imagine they primarily aline with birth months.
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Post by atv on May 10, 2019 12:16:29 GMT -5
How does bio-banding work? Are some DAs using it on a regular basis or is it limited to certain tournaments? I don’t know exactly how it works but I believe DA can roster kids up or down based on a formula. I’m all of a sudden ambivalent to the whole biobanding thing. How do you lessen unconscious bias? From what I’ve observed in a small little subset, there is definitely a big diifference in performance of U14 or U15 kids with January/ February birthdays versus December birthdays.
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Post by jjfutebol on May 10, 2019 15:16:36 GMT -5
Can all DAs bio-band kids? Ha! it’s a verb now!
Easy way to implement it is with cutoffs of height AND weight bc we can all find U14s born in January that look more like U12/13s, so basing it purely on birthdates is be silly.
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Post by wannabegreat on May 10, 2019 15:34:49 GMT -5
So what happens to the kids you line up that don't fit into the matrix? Example: you line up a group of kids, one of top five performers, tallest, strongest on ball, technical, but born in Nov? Do you say sorry kid your mom should have planned better?
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Post by atv on May 10, 2019 16:18:26 GMT -5
Can all DAs bio-band kids? Ha! it’s a verb now! Easy way to implement it is with cutoffs of height AND weight bc we can all find U14s born in January that look more like U12/13s, so basing it purely on birthdates is be silly. That’s true. Here’s a link, read all about it. the18.com/soccer-news/us-soccer-bio-banding-explained?amp
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Post by GameOfThrow-ins on May 10, 2019 16:27:03 GMT -5
The part the people fail to grasp with this is that a 4’10” 13-year-old with 5’5” projection is the same as a 6’0” 13-year-old with 6’6” projection.
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Post by ultimatedad on May 10, 2019 19:02:08 GMT -5
Why not split the age groups to six monthintervals in the early years? U6 u6.5 u7 u7.5 ect. Club soccer could adopt this but it's similar to having at least an A and B team. Some clubs have C-F teams where if you look at the rosters i would imagine they primarily aline with birth months. Why would it be like having an a and a b team? It would be no different than having a u6 and a u7. plus the clubs could benefit by having mor teams per year and make more money. A win win situation.
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