shaka
Jr. Academy
Posts: 96
|
Post by shaka on May 31, 2019 14:47:18 GMT -5
"poaching" . illegally hunt or catch (game or fish) on land that is not one's own or in contravention of official protection. synonyms: hunt illegally, catch/trap/kill illegally, plunder "old Hector's been poaching salmon again" "take or acquire in an unfair or clandestine way" Some on this forum make it sound like the families and players didn't have any choice but to be pulled away against their will.
|
|
|
Post by RedDevil10 on May 31, 2019 15:19:54 GMT -5
Looking at bringing my daughter (07) and son (05) from NTH to UFA. We live in the middle of both clubs and not sure which way to go. From what I’ve seen lately, UFA Norcross is starting to get ahead both on the boys and the girls. caught the 07 game between Forsyth and norcross this afternoon and norcross looked way better. Seems like the 05 Sccl boys do very well. Anyone else have an opinion? My neighbor just told me that there will not be a 2008 or 2007 girls team at norcross next year, the can't be true right? WoW They will have a pretty good 08 team next year
|
|
|
Post by messindreams on May 31, 2019 23:50:19 GMT -5
"poaching" . illegally hunt or catch (game or fish) on land that is not one's own or in contravention of official protection. synonyms: hunt illegally, catch/trap/kill illegally, plunder "old Hector's been poaching salmon again" "take or acquire in an unfair or clandestine way" Some on this forum make it sound like the families and players didn't have any choice but to be pulled away against their will. Some on this forum are great at googling but at times don't pay attention to details either by design or for other reasons. By the very definition you quoted, what an NTH Milton coach did at a winter Futsal competition recruiting mid season is poaching
|
|
shaka
Jr. Academy
Posts: 96
|
Post by shaka on Jun 1, 2019 0:28:38 GMT -5
"poaching" . illegally hunt or catch (game or fish) on land that is not one's own or in contravention of official protection. synonyms: hunt illegally, catch/trap/kill illegally, plunder "old Hector's been poaching salmon again" "take or acquire in an unfair or clandestine way" Some on this forum make it sound like the families and players didn't have any choice but to be pulled away against their will. Some on this forum are great at googling but at times don't pay attention to details either by design or for other reasons. By the very definition you quoted, what an NTH Milton coach did at a winter Futsal competition recruiting mid season is poaching If what you say happened, I'm not saying it's appropriate behavior by the coach. Actually I would say it's inappropriate behavior and should not happen BUT the players did have a choice. I can't imagine any were taken, caught, trapped. Don't know the parents in the situation, but it's highly probable they left on their own free will. Based on your story, Let's agree that the players were "illegally hunted".
|
|
|
Post by oraclesfriend on Jun 1, 2019 8:33:45 GMT -5
Some on this forum are great at googling but at times don't pay attention to details either by design or for other reasons. By the very definition you quoted, what an NTH Milton coach did at a winter Futsal competition recruiting mid season is poaching If what you say happened, I'm not saying it's appropriate behavior by the coach. Actually I would say it's inappropriate behavior and should not happen BUT the players did have a choice. I can't imagine any were taken, caught, trapped. Don't know the parents in the situation, but it's highly probable they left on their own free will. Based on your story, Let's agree that the players were "illegally hunted". I am also aware of this happening by an NTH Milton (former Concorde) coach trying to get players to leave their club to go to NTH Milton. Happening at a training location and during private training sessions.
|
|
|
Post by messindreams on Jun 1, 2019 10:57:00 GMT -5
Some on this forum are great at googling but at times don't pay attention to details either by design or for other reasons. By the very definition you quoted, what an NTH Milton coach did at a winter Futsal competition recruiting mid season is poaching If what you say happened, I'm not saying it's appropriate behavior by the coach. Actually I would say it's inappropriate behavior and should not happen BUT the players did have a choice. I can't imagine any were taken, caught, trapped. Don't know the parents in the situation, but it's highly probable they left on their own free will. Based on your story, Let's agree that the players were "illegally hunted". Haha, ok let us settle on "illegally hunted". There are no ifs, buts and maybes with this, it is a fact. You can go check the rosters for fall and spring. Of course those parents had a choice to make but we all are gullible and blinded by our love for our kids and wanting to make the best choice for them. False promises and illegal hunting practices finally caught up and those kids are headed back to Concorde for next Fall. Here is the bigger issue in all this, when few kids left mid season the rest of the kids did not have a team to field and got caught in the mess they did not create. We are talking about 10-11 yr olds, SAD STORY. I hope this is an exception and not a common practice at NTH. I still miss OLD TOPHAT.
|
|
shaka
Jr. Academy
Posts: 96
|
Post by shaka on Jun 1, 2019 11:53:14 GMT -5
If what you say happened, I'm not saying it's appropriate behavior by the coach. Actually I would say it's inappropriate behavior and should not happen BUT the players did have a choice. I can't imagine any were taken, caught, trapped. Don't know the parents in the situation, but it's highly probable they left on their own free will. Based on your story, Let's agree that the players were "illegally hunted". Haha, ok let us settle on "illegally hunted". There are no ifs, buts and maybes with this, it is a fact. You can go check the rosters for fall and spring. Of course those parents had a choice to make but we all are gullible and blinded by our love for our kids and wanting to make the best choice for them. False promises and illegal hunting practices finally caught up and those kids are headed back to Concorde for next Fall. Here is the bigger issue in all this, when few kids left mid season the rest of the kids did not have a team to field and got caught in the mess they did not create. We are talking about 10-11 yr olds, SAD STORY. I hope this is an exception and not a common practice at NTH. I still miss OLD TOPHAT. 100% agree with you. And I don't doubt it happened. I know the coach you're referencing. I wish this were an isolated incident but unfortunately it isn't. 2 different clubs in Gwinnett county with the same letters (FAU) were inviting and hosting multiple Academy age players rostered at other clubs to train during the spring season. Well before Georgia soccer rules permit. I know this happens all the time but it's completely ridiculous. Especially at Academy! Your point about teams not having enough players when kids leave during the season is something I didn't fully appreciate. A sad ripple effect that's not fair. Not sure how to prevent it though?
|
|
|
Post by atlsoccerdad on Jun 1, 2019 21:34:23 GMT -5
The reason they didn't go to Fowler and why the top players from Forsyth went to TH as well is simply put...lack of management and general wanting to put the girls first attitude by those who run UFA as WHOLE. I heard a story about the Fowler 2006 girls RED team (the one directly under premier) being given 9 girls all season for the roster. UFA could have moved girls around, but forced RED to play a WHOLE season with 9 ... So much for caring about development. Also heard the Premier coach SP had a pretty bad attitude toward player development (demeaning remarks aimed at the RED girls during scrimmages)... My bet is that whole RED team leaves UFA to go to NTH or Rush.
|
|
|
Post by soccergurl on Jun 2, 2019 17:42:47 GMT -5
new rule for ufa if you have multiple children and you chose to move one to another club, you have to take the remaining kid also. all or nothing rule at ufa. can someone verify this please. WoW
|
|
|
Post by surgesoccer on Jun 2, 2019 17:55:39 GMT -5
new rule for ufa if you have multiple children and you chose to move one to another club, you have to take the remaining kid also. all or nothing rule at ufa. can someone verify this please. WoW Can't confirm or deny because I have not heard anything like this. We do have a player whose younger brother already plays at another club. I'd be surprised if accurate but stranger things have happened.
|
|
|
Post by oraclesfriend on Jun 2, 2019 18:37:54 GMT -5
new rule for ufa if you have multiple children and you chose to move one to another club, you have to take the remaining kid also. all or nothing rule at ufa. can someone verify this please. WoW Can't confirm or deny because I have not heard anything like this. We do have a player whose younger brother already plays at another club. I'd be surprised if accurate but stranger things have happened. Can't confirm or deny this either, but I would be very surprised if this was true. We have players on our team that have one other sibling at UFA and one not. Also I am aware of several people that have a boy playing at UFA and a girl playing at Tophat. What is good for the goose is not always good for the gander...
|
|
|
Post by greenmonkey on Jun 2, 2019 18:43:16 GMT -5
So if my son is a AU player I can't have my daughter play at UFA? Yeah I don't see that happening anytime soon.
|
|
|
Post by soccergurl on Jun 2, 2019 20:22:21 GMT -5
I am not sure but it is what I am hearing today. i was hoping for confirmation or not.
|
|
|
Post by soccergurl on Jun 2, 2019 20:23:32 GMT -5
Looking at bringing my daughter (07) and son (05) from NTH to UFA. We live in the middle of both clubs and not sure which way to go. From what I’ve seen lately, UFA Norcross is starting to get ahead both on the boys and the girls. caught the 07 game between Forsyth and norcross this afternoon and norcross looked way better. Seems like the 05 Sccl boys do very well. Anyone else have an opinion? what club did your daughter end up with?
|
|
|
Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 2, 2019 21:06:59 GMT -5
new rule for ufa if you have multiple children and you chose to move one to another club, you have to take the remaining kid also. all or nothing rule at ufa. can someone verify this please. WoW Absolutely no way this is true.
|
|
|
Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jun 2, 2019 21:43:13 GMT -5
I am not sure but it is what I am hearing today. i was hoping for confirmation or not. Saw this today and was determined to find out the truth. Coincidentally, met up with some old friends from NTH for late lunch today (more on this later). Soooo it looks like there is a modicum of truth to this. New rule or retaliation, you decide. Story goes back to the recent UFA loss of their best 2008s to NTH. Apparently, it was so unexpected, that the powers that be did not have a plan B, C,...#Furious! Looks like one of the 2008 players has/had a sister at UFA also. Said sister made her UFA team at tryouts and opted to stay and play next season with her friends & teammates. After the migration this past week, her parents were called on Friday/Saturday (after tryouts) and told either both girls stay or both move on to NTH. Pleas to "management" fell on deaf ears. So faced with being forced to choose UFA or NTH for both girls, parents reached out to friends/coaches from NTH. Calls were made and thankfully by early morning today, player is now joining her 2008 sister at NTH. Again is it a rule or retaliation, i'll leave it to you to decide. However, it is a disheartening state of affairs since UFA is retaliating against a child. Maybe it is time to look inward as to why you lost what by all accounts has been a very successful and talented groups of young ladies en-mass...
|
|
|
Post by oraclesfriend on Jun 2, 2019 22:12:28 GMT -5
This is a UFA Norcross kid from that 08 team that left en masse?? Or rather the sibling of one? We had a long discussion about that coach weeks ago and many expressed concerns about things there and how complaints fell on deaf ears there as well...I think that there needs to be a thorough look into that situation.
I have to wonder if there isn't more to the story of this family AND this whole team. However, if this story is the whole story on why they chose to tell them all in or all out, then shame on whoever made that decision!!! I do not think it is a new policy overall though as there are many current players where they are split with where the children play.
|
|
|
Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 2, 2019 22:26:54 GMT -5
Ok.
Stupid question
How is a boy 08 leaving for AU really any different then a girl 08 leaving for tophat?
We need to Be careful making generalizations about a single event. I have no idea the truth.
|
|
|
Post by messindreams on Jun 2, 2019 22:31:33 GMT -5
I am not sure but it is what I am hearing today. i was hoping for confirmation or not. Saw this today and was determined to find out the truth. Coincidentally, met up with some old friends from NTH for late lunch today (more on this later). Soooo it looks like there is a modicum of truth to this. New rule or retaliation, you decide. Story goes back to the recent UFA loss of their best 2008s to NTH. Apparently, it was so unexpected, that the powers that be did not have a plan B, C,...#Furious! Looks like one of the 2008 players has/had a sister at UFA also. Said sister made her UFA team at tryouts and opted to stay and play next season with her friends & teammates. After the migration this past week, her parents were called on Friday/Saturday (after tryouts) and told either both girls stay or both move on to NTH. Pleas to "management" fell on deaf ears. So faced with being forced to choose UFA or NTH for both girls, parents reached out to friends/coaches from NTH. Calls were made and thankfully by early morning today, player is now joining her 2008 sister at NTH. Again is it a rule or retaliation, i'll leave it to you to decide. However, it is a disheartening state of affairs since UFA is retaliating against a child. Maybe it is time to look inward as to why you lost what by all accounts has been a very successful and talented groups of young ladies en-mass... FG, Thanks for sharing details. Is this 2008 girls exodus from Norcross or Forsyth or both? and which location did they land Buckhead or Milton? P.S: I cannot believe that this is happening, retaliation or rule doesn't matter IMHO. Are we punishing a 10-11 yr old kid for her sibling's decision? shame on UFA if this is true and good for NTH.
|
|
|
Post by futsalqueen on Jun 2, 2019 23:26:06 GMT -5
Maybe I can give some clarity from an outsider’s opinion. FG, a lot of people know who you are and you definitely are perceived as a snake to many. Wasn’t surprising to see that here you go again spreading drama, it almost predictable now. There were a couple of bad apples that created the drama at norcross and from what I hear, the management is very happy to have certain people out.
The best players on that team wanted to stay, 3 of which cried to stay. Because of the shopping around and drama it created panic which escalated the move. All normal as everyone is entitled to shop around, no big deal. So it’s clear, last year 3 of those players were offered at NTH and chose to stay at norcross, the move was going to happen regardless. .
As far as the player that left with a sibling at norcross, it’s a much deeper story than told. That family has been helped in numerous ways by the club to the point of employment even. Players have been helped and cared for just as the family has been since the norcross fury days. The way that family handled leaving and that parent stirring up a lot led to a disgraceful end in my opinion. Everyone can choose where they go but I’m a firm believer in honesty and doing things the right way. At the end of the day what matters is that every kid has a place to play and compete. Everything outside of that is selfish and about the parents. There are a lot of people that hide here spreading false things but are dumb to think no one knows who they are or know the situation. It’s all for the kids, parents need to stop making about them. Coaches and clubs need to stop making it about them. By the way, you guys know who you are. If the boot fits.
|
|
|
Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jun 3, 2019 6:29:22 GMT -5
Maybe I can give some clarity from an outsider’s opinion. FG, a lot of people know who you are and you definitely are perceived as a snake to many. Wasn’t surprising to see that here you go again spreading drama, it almost predictable now. There were a couple of bad apples that created the drama at norcross and from what I hear, the management is very happy to have certain people out. The best players on that team wanted to stay, 3 of which cried to stay. Because of the shopping around and drama it created panic which escalated the move. All normal as everyone is entitled to shop around, no big deal. So it’s clear, last year 3 of those players were offered at NTH and chose to stay at norcross, the move was going to happen regardless. . As far as the player that left with a sibling at norcross, it’s a much deeper story than told. That family has been helped in numerous ways by the club to the point of employment even. Players have been helped and cared for just as the family has been since the norcross fury days. The way that family handled leaving and that parent stirring up a lot led to a disgraceful end in my opinion. Everyone can choose where they go but I’m a firm believer in honesty and doing things the right way. At the end of the day what matters is that every kid has a place to play and compete. Everything outside of that is selfish and about the parents. There are a lot of people that hide here spreading false things but are dumb to think no one knows who they are or know the situation. It’s all for the kids, parents need to stop making about them. Coaches and clubs need to stop making it about them. By the way, you guys know who you are. If the boot fits. Love, love, love the name Futsalqueen. Must be a fan of the beautiful game of futsal too. Still play? Would luv to get a team together and scrimmage.
|
|
|
Post by foosball31 on Jun 3, 2019 6:34:21 GMT -5
So this has become an interesting read to me. Based off of your statement, if a family get's assistance in this case employment and care from a club then they are not entitled to take their child to another club? You reference the "right way" in terms of leaving, please enlighten us, because, i would love to know what the right way is. I don't ever really post, but since it is tryout season this topic has forced me to speak. I can only surmise that you (futsal queen) work for the club, and that the threat/ultimatum/rule or whatever you may want to call it is true. And with that, the club/director or whoever this person is, should be ashamed of him or herself. These are children, and let's not be so naive to think that they aren't aware of what is going on. You may want to keep pointing fingers at these such parents, but as any parent will state on this forum, we are constantly having to consider what is best for our children. Have you ever thought that the player might have had a lot to do with this. Maybe he/she didn't want to go back to the club. Maybe they wanted to a new start, or thought the other club was better, but whatever the case, it's not for the director to threaten one child for the choice of their sibling. As for the other players that seemed to have left, how can you blame any other family for the majority of a team to leave. Per your statement the best players wanted to stay, so why would they change their mind if other players wanted to leave. I have seen it time and time again, players leave yearly, and most clubs replace them. Maybe it is hitting home to Norcross, because they are bleeding players, due to the many leadership issues that bleed on to the field. If you think parents don't talk team to team, friend to friend, customer to customer, then maybe you should go take a business management course as a refresher. Pay attention to what is happening to you now, and work to fix it for the future generations that are coming up in your club. Stop focusing on one family, and start making better choices for all of the players families (and i will add coaches, because i won't begin to bring up the amount of coaches that left or tried to leave). And for that family, i am mortified that they are having their personal issues aired out in a public forum, so since some of you seem to know who they are, let them know that you have at least one anonymous person that wishes them nothing but the best for their CHILDREN. Last but not least, you brought up Norcross Fury, well i would love to see UFA Norcross bring back some of the same morals, beliefs, and leadership that Norcross Fury showed when my child played for them. Maybe I can give some clarity from an outsider’s opinion. FG, a lot of people know who you are and you definitely are perceived as a snake to many. Wasn’t surprising to see that here you go again spreading drama, it almost predictable now. There were a couple of bad apples that created the drama at norcross and from what I hear, the management is very happy to have certain people out. The best players on that team wanted to stay, 3 of which cried to stay. Because of the shopping around and drama it created panic which escalated the move. All normal as everyone is entitled to shop around, no big deal. So it’s clear, last year 3 of those players were offered at NTH and chose to stay at norcross, the move was going to happen regardless. . As far as the player that left with a sibling at norcross, it’s a much deeper story than told. That family has been helped in numerous ways by the club to the point of employment even. Players have been helped and cared for just as the family has been since the norcross fury days. The way that family handled leaving and that parent stirring up a lot led to a disgraceful end in my opinion. Everyone can choose where they go but I’m a firm believer in honesty and doing things the right way. At the end of the day what matters is that every kid has a place to play and compete. Everything outside of that is selfish and about the parents. There are a lot of people that hide here spreading false things but are dumb to think no one knows who they are or know the situation. It’s all for the kids, parents need to stop making about them. Coaches and clubs need to stop making it about them. By the way, you guys know who you are. If the boot fits.
|
|
|
Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 3, 2019 6:46:39 GMT -5
Again - I know plenty of boys that haven’t paid a dime in years and then AU came calling and they left without any issues or punishments to their siblings. Don’t say anything negative about Futsal Gawdess with your first post. The gawdess is a valuable resource to the local soccer community.
|
|
|
Post by insideinfo on Jun 3, 2019 7:03:43 GMT -5
Again - I know plenty of boys that haven’t paid a dime in years and then AU came calling and they left without any issues or punishments to their siblings. Don’t say anything negative about Futsal Gawdess with your first post. The gawdess is a valuable resource to the local soccer community. So what you're saying is that no one can call her out when she constantly spread lies and drama for likes? Everyone should just sit back and accept everything she says? Some of us do know who she is, and you should take a step back and allow her to defend herself. If shes going to talk, then she should be able to handle it when it comes back at her. I too heard the story about that family leaving and its not quite like she tells it.
|
|
|
Post by insideinfo on Jun 3, 2019 7:11:31 GMT -5
Saw this today and was determined to find out the truth. Coincidentally, met up with some old friends from NTH for late lunch today (more on this later). Soooo it looks like there is a modicum of truth to this. New rule or retaliation, you decide. Story goes back to the recent UFA loss of their best 2008s to NTH. Apparently, it was so unexpected, that the powers that be did not have a plan B, C,...#Furious! Looks like one of the 2008 players has/had a sister at UFA also. Said sister made her UFA team at tryouts and opted to stay and play next season with her friends & teammates. After the migration this past week, her parents were called on Friday/Saturday (after tryouts) and told either both girls stay or both move on to NTH. Pleas to "management" fell on deaf ears. So faced with being forced to choose UFA or NTH for both girls, parents reached out to friends/coaches from NTH. Calls were made and thankfully by early morning today, player is now joining her 2008 sister at NTH. Again is it a rule or retaliation, i'll leave it to you to decide. However, it is a disheartening state of affairs since UFA is retaliating against a child. Maybe it is time to look inward as to why you lost what by all accounts has been a very successful and talented groups of young ladies en-mass... FG, Thanks for sharing details. Is this 2008 girls exodus from Norcross or Forsyth or both? and which location did they land Buckhead or Milton? P.S: I cannot believe that this is happening, retaliation or rule doesn't matter IMHO. Are we punishing a 10-11 yr old kid for her sibling's decision? shame on UFA if this is true and good for NTH. It happened at Norcross. And she instigated for all of those players to leave, only to wind up at NTH on a third team. She called management and told them she was leaving and then said BTW these 8 are leaving with me. As far as her sibling being "kicked out", it wasn't like that either. SHE called NTH and got her other kid a spot on a team and then SHE called management and told them she panicked and took her kid there. She probably had already attended tryouts and it was on the works. There is no rule about siblings, there a LOT of families that have multiple kids at multiple clubs. It happens all the time.
|
|
|
Post by SoccerMom on Jun 3, 2019 7:38:11 GMT -5
I am not sure but it is what I am hearing today. i was hoping for confirmation or not. No its not true. Lots of dual club families.
|
|
|
Post by soccertoday on Jun 3, 2019 8:14:32 GMT -5
Is it a rule-no it wasn't....until a director decided to take his misguided anger out on a family & decided that it WOULD be a rule for this family. This story is absolutely 100% true and it's sad as a previous poster stated that a club decides to take out their anger on a ten year old kid. This family had every intention of keeping one daughter at UFA Norcross and having the other daughter play at NTH. When that was no longer an option they had no choice to look at NTH for both girls, because guess what Norcross waited until AFTER tryouts to inform them of their decision. They had already accepted a position for their daughter at Norcross. Furthermore, this family had NOTHING to do with the mass exodus from Norcross. If you guys want someone to blame for all the leaving, please look directly at Norcross and really Forsyth too for this collapse. There was no arm twisting to be done. The girls side at Norcross was never given the attention it deserved and has always been an afterthought. I cannot believe that people have stated that families should show loyalty to a club and stay with a club, no matter the end result. These families pay for a service and that service is to develop their daughters. Soccerhouse is right, if AU came calling for their boy, they would drop their current club without hesitation and no one would criticize them in fact they would CONGRATULATE them. This is a Norcross issue that has been a long time coming, and the directors threw a temper-tantrum when they realized, so many girls were leaving. Will this rule still be in effect moving forward, no it won't but I can guarantee you it was a rule for about twenty-four hours for one family.
|
|
|
Post by greenmonkey on Jun 3, 2019 8:50:08 GMT -5
The poor parent who started this thread looking for info/advice.
All that has been established is that there are two or three or four sides to every story.
And as I have seen over the years on the forum there are a few things that happen almost every year.
1: There is always at least one team in one age group at one club (different one every year) that “blows up” “disbands” “implodes” “takes their team to another club” “gets a coach fired” or “tries to teach a club or coach a lesson”
That might be a fun thread:
Remember the MOBA/AFC drama? Or what was The entire girls team that left somewhere and went to NTH or UFA Milton Or the entire Concorde North team that went to NTH 2: The actual participation in the forum is a very very very small representation of the actual parents/players who participate in club soccer.
You won’t convince me that you are doing anyone a “service” by airing your personal laundry with a club or coach here.
|
|
|
Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jun 3, 2019 9:02:11 GMT -5
Some of us do know who she is, and you should take a step back and allow her to defend herself. If shes going to talk, then she should be able to handle it when it comes back at her. I too heard the story about that family leaving and its not quite like she tells it. Hello "insideinfo" I was wondering when you would jump at the chance to chastise and malign me. I'm actually surprised you did not try to mansplain what I was trying to say, like you normally do. As much as I appreciate @soccerhouse trying to be a gentleman, I think I need to remind you that I can handle anything someone like you has to throw at me. This is an open forum, where everyone is free to post whatever opinion they have heard, witnessed or experienced. It is up to the public and other formites to draw their own individual conclusions. I'm willing to bet my forum and in-person reputation that I will win that battle every single time against you, simply because unlike you my information is NOT an emotional outburst but rooted in facts and talking with actual stakeholders. My kids are products of Norcross since way back in the NSA Fury days and the club has been very good to us, so I have no hidden agenda in disparaging the club. Yes you know who I am as do I you. Next time you see me on the sidelines, please feel free to approach and let's have an adult conversation. Just a word of advice though, if it goes sideways, I fight like a girl...
|
|
|
Post by mistergrinch on Jun 3, 2019 11:12:54 GMT -5
Curious how that coach still has a job.. seems like his teams always implode.
|
|