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Post by Lady Soccer Whistledown on Jun 8, 2019 11:46:31 GMT -5
A team was full by Day 2, but coach didn’t communicate that to anyone. I totally realize offers were being made way before tryouts, but if your team is full, should a coach communicate that at the start of Day 3? So kids don’t waste their time and can head over to another club and find a home? Kinda crappy behavior in my eyes.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jun 8, 2019 11:58:35 GMT -5
There's always room for a new superstar.
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Post by freeyouthsoccer on Jun 8, 2019 12:01:58 GMT -5
A team was full by Day 2, but coach didn’t communicate that to anyone. I totally realize offers were being made way before tryouts, but if your team is full, should a coach communicate that at the start of Day 3? So kids don’t waste their time and can head over to another club and find a home? Kinda crappy behavior in my eyes. Ageed. It's also crappy when they keep goading a player to come back one more day to their club tryouts, then they provide no feedback and effectively cause the player to miss another tryout at another club. It's borderline predatory. |
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Post by futbolpapa on Jun 8, 2019 12:05:48 GMT -5
Some coaches just dont care about how their decisions will impact the kids. I saw a girl last year that was on the same NPL team for 3 yrs get moved to the lower group in the last hour of day 3 tryouts. Afterward, they finally told her she wouldnt be offered a spot again on the NPL team but would welcome her on the next team down which was Athena B. Obviously, it was too late to go anywhere else to tryout & they expected her to accept a spot on a team that was 2-3 levels below where she had played for 3 yrs. Coach didnt care & offered no suggestions on where else she could go. She ended up leaving the club. At that age (teen) the toughest part is leaving those friends behind.
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Post by soccernotfootball on Jun 8, 2019 14:20:25 GMT -5
Some clubs are worse than others. Some coaches are even worse still...
I think this may be one of the few "businesses" where the paying customer has no power. (Sure, you can always leave. But we know that option isn't always a realistic one.)
The irony is - these clubs self-inflict these wounds and bad feelings on themselves (assume it's because they know it's a "captive" audience so they don't care.) It would be great if they realized that a little communication goes a long way. No one has ever complained due to over communication.
Have some conversations w/ the parents and/or the players (depending on age). Be honest. Sure, it may be a hard talk to have but it will be appreciated in the long term. In the time that I've spent in youth soccer, almost all complaints come down to communication. If a coach and club would just be open and honest, everyone would be better for it.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jun 9, 2019 5:45:58 GMT -5
Now that Tryouts and the crazy season is making way for the return of some sanity, I think this thread is as good a place and time to look back on the whole craziness of tryouts. I for one think this season more than any other has been especially fraught with a ton of shenanigans. I'll start by asking should the format of Tryouts be changed? We all heard stories of 70%, 80%, 90% of the team already chosen before tryouts begun. Should clubs just post what they are looking for. Hey for the 00 Boys DA team, we are looking for strikers and goalkeepers? Should coaches be forced to have a review with their players prior to tryouts and give written or verbal acknowledgement of how they view said player? Would this help players and parents know where they stand and therefore give them some advice on what to do for tryouts? Regardless of what our individual experiences where with Tryouts, we can all agree that a lot of what has been yarned about here does not paint coaches and clubs in a very flattering light. I hope DOCs are reading these comments and taking a look internally. Something has to change. I truly welcome the day PARENTS realize the power we have and most importantly, what we can accomplish when we chose to force a change in how things are done.
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Post by freeyouthsoccer on Jun 9, 2019 6:41:01 GMT -5
I’ll turn the tables and look at the other side of things, not to discount any of the troubles that people have at try-outs, but to point out another issue I see a great deal in coaching recently. When did players and parents start shopping so incredibly hard every try-out season and seemingly having no reservations whatsoever about committing to one team only to turn around and accept another perceived better offer hours or days afterward? I can’t tell you how many coaches I know made an offer to a player, had it accepted, and then had the player or parent pull out of the commitment at some point in the next couple hours/days. I think upstanding behavior and as this thread terms it, morals, have declined drastically on both sides of the try-out issue. I remember looking for a job as a teenager. I did a bunch of interviews. Kentucky Fried Chicken called me back first and because I wanted some money very badly, I accepted. The next day, Six Flags called me and offered a job I would have liked much better. I accepted and was going to call KFC back and let them know I wouldn’t be coming there to work after all. Between the two phone calls I yelled to my dad in my excitement that I got a job at Six Flags. He walked into the kitchen a little confused and asked, “I thought you took the KFC job yesterday?” I told him I did, but now I was going to Six Flags. He calmly sat down and told me no I wasn’t. I had accepted a position and I was going to follow through on that. He made me call Six Flags back and explain the situation and made me work at KFC for no less than six months, which he deemed sufficient for the commitment I’d given. I ended up staying for 9 months until the next summer vacation. My point being, when did our yes become so flimsy? Just like my job saga, when a coach offers a player a spot in a team he is doing so at the expense of other players who really want that spot. When he offers you, he is declining them. If you say yes and then renege, you leave the coach and team in the lurch just as badly and have behaved just as badly as all the horror stories people have told over the years about the clubs at tryouts. I commend you for your work ethic. Still, your post ignores the unequal bargaining power of the parties, player v club. Clubs have more options than players. |
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Post by cleansheet on Jun 9, 2019 6:52:17 GMT -5
Now that Tryouts and the crazy season is making way for the return of some sanity, I think this thread is as good a place and time to look back on the whole craziness of tryouts. I for one think this season more than any other has been especially fraught with a ton of shenanigans. I'll start by asking should the format of Tryouts be changed? We all heard stories of 70%, 80%, 90% of the team already chosen before tryouts begun. Should clubs just post what they are looking for. Hey for the 00 Boys DA team, we are looking for strikers and goalkeepers? Should coaches be forced to have a review with their players prior to tryouts and give written or verbal acknowledgement of how they view said player? Would this help players and parents know where they stand and therefore give them some advice on what to do for tryouts? Regardless of what our individual experiences where with Tryouts, we can all agree that a lot of what has been yarned about here does not paint coaches and clubs in a very flattering light. I hope DOCs are reading these comments and taking a look internally. Something has to change. I truly welcome the day PARENTS realize the power we have and most importantly, what we can accomplish when we chose to force a change in how things are done. There’s a simple reason the clubs won’t post the positions of need. If player X can’t make the top team then the club conveniently has a second team. The club will say, “you are on the bubble for the top team. Let’s roster you on the second team and if you play well we can bring you up to the top team.” Look at UFA Forsyth for example. There are SEVEN 08 boys teams!!! That’s a pure money grab and a club that charges 25% more than others. Come on man, after 2-3 teams those others kids should be at a smaller club or rec. Shame on UFAF. |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jun 9, 2019 7:29:33 GMT -5
oldboy I agree that both, shoot all parties in this dance need to adapt their actions and thought process. What would you recommend and how would you go about fixing things? I give the youngsters a pass since the adults are the ones that allow or squash their actions (see your dad's talk about KFC/Six Flags).
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Post by freeyouthsoccer on Jun 9, 2019 7:30:18 GMT -5
I commend you for your work ethic. Still, your post ignores the unequal bargaining power of the parties, player v club. Clubs have more options than players. I’m not at all negating any of the horror stories people have related about their try-out experiences. Simply pointing out that parents and players have some work to do as well. I didn't think (or write) that you were negating any of the tryout horror experiences. I agree that parents/players "have some work to do." I'm essentially noting that the Clubs have way more work to do than most/nearly all parents/players especially because the clubs have more bargaining power than the parents/players. A club handcuffs (sometimes misleads) a player into 3 or 4 days of tryouts. As a result, that player misses tryouts at other clubs. If you don't tryout at a club, you're not getting an offer. Generally, that player is hosed. A club makes an offer to a player and that player hours/days later changes mind. That club is generally not hosed because it keeps going down the list of players to keep making offers until one accepts. Unequal power. |
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Post by freeyouthsoccer on Jun 9, 2019 7:32:20 GMT -5
By the way, I'm not pretending to have any original insight.
I'm basically Captain Obvious on this point.
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Post by freeyouthsoccer on Jun 9, 2019 7:35:32 GMT -5
oldboy I agree that both, shoot all parties in this dance need to adapt their actions and thought process. What would you recommend and how would you go about fixing things? I give the youngsters a pass since the adults are the ones that allow or squash their actions (see your dad's talk about KFC/Six Flags). One fix, as stated before, is to have clubs/coaches honestly give feedback in as real-time a basis as possible. Another is more uniformity on timing of offers and deadlines for replies. I also don't pretend to have all or any answers. Step one is to acknowledge the problem. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jun 9, 2019 7:37:06 GMT -5
Now that Tryouts and the crazy season is making way for the return of some sanity, I think this thread is as good a place and time to look back on the whole craziness of tryouts. I for one think this season more than any other has been especially fraught with a ton of shenanigans. I'll start by asking should the format of Tryouts be changed? We all heard stories of 70%, 80%, 90% of the team already chosen before tryouts begun. Should clubs just post what they are looking for. Hey for the 00 Boys DA team, we are looking for strikers and goalkeepers? Should coaches be forced to have a review with their players prior to tryouts and give written or verbal acknowledgement of how they view said player? Would this help players and parents know where they stand and therefore give them some advice on what to do for tryouts? Regardless of what our individual experiences where with Tryouts, we can all agree that a lot of what has been yarned about here does not paint coaches and clubs in a very flattering light. I hope DOCs are reading these comments and taking a look internally. Something has to change. I truly welcome the day PARENTS realize the power we have and most importantly, what we can accomplish when we chose to force a change in how things are done. There’s a simple reason the clubs won’t post the positions of need. If player X can’t make the top team then the club conveniently has a second team. The club will say, “you are on the bubble for the top team. Let’s roster you on the second team and if you play well we can bring you up to the top team.” Look at UFA Forsyth for example. There are SEVEN 08 boys teams!!! That’s a pure money grab and a club that charges 25% more than others. Come on man, after 2-3 teams those others kids should be at a smaller club or rec. Shame on UFAF. I disagree with this statement. I have seen the lower teams play at big clubs play. On the boys' side the 4th and 5th and often 6th teams have done very good players still. Let's not forget that 08 boys teams, for example, are U12 teams and are 9v9 so those 7 teams will probably make 4-5 11v11 teams. Plus, while I will agree that the small clubs are options for these players those parents have a choice and have chosen the big club. Many times that is due to convenience. Maybe they have some other kids at the club or they live 3 miles away or they really like the coach. However, I hate it when people insult those kids on lower teams by saying they should be playing rec!!! Since when is trying to improve your knowledge and skill a bad thing?!?! |
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Post by paterfamilias on Jun 9, 2019 7:44:08 GMT -5
I would disagree that the clubs have more bargaining power. Remember parents are the ones who hold the purse strings.
It is incumbent upon each family to make an informed decision about what is best for their player. That is no easy task. Friends must be consulted, other players, coaches, and finally there needs to be a frank evaluation of what does the player want and is it realistically attainable?
As you interact with most coaches at tryout time, you really must realize they are putting their most positive spin on everything. Therefore everything they say must be taken with a whole heaping cup of salt. They are really obligated to do the best for their job, the club and then your kid. It's nice when all those align, but it isn't always the case. I do not fault coaches for that position. I am hyperaware of it as the words spill out of their mouths.
As you interact with players and friends, you also must remember your player is different from all if them in skill and temperament. What worked for your player's best friend probably will not work for your player. How far are you willing to drive for a team one level.up? Two levels up? Etc. What is it worth to have more time to do things other than commute and travel? Does that cut down on burnout? Or would playing on a lower skilled team cause burnout? Remember once the whistle blows every game is important to the players no matter what the level. They all want to compete and win.
So in short it boils down to the old adage to "know thyself". At the end of the day.
The hard starts well before tryout season in observing other teams and coaches, understanding your players commitment and determining the best solution in a very fluid situation.
There is responsibility on both the club and parent side. Don't get pressured, because you hold the money and if you don't like their offer, don't give them your cash.
Finally, you get.out of things what you out into them. Therefore if your kid puts in good effort into what may seem to be a bad situation at the outset, in the end it'll be alright.
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Post by blu on Jun 9, 2019 7:48:35 GMT -5
At U12 you'll also see some players jump from the 3rd team all the way to the 1st team in a single year. Lot of growth happening that year.
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Post by freeyouthsoccer on Jun 9, 2019 8:23:39 GMT -5
I would disagree that the clubs have more bargaining power. Remember parents are the ones who hold the purse strings. It is incumbent upon each family to make an informed decision about what is best for their player. That is no easy task. Friends must be consulted, other players, coaches, and finally there needs to be a frank evaluation of what does the player want and is it realistically attainable? As you interact with most coaches at tryout time, you really must realize they are putting their most positive spin on everything. Therefore everything they say must be taken with a whole heaping cup of salt. They are really obligated to do the best for their job, the club and then your kid. It's nice when all those align, but it isn't always the case. I do not fault coaches for that position. I am hyperaware of it as the words spill out of their mouths. As you interact with players and friends, you also must remember your player is different from all if them in skill and temperament. What worked for your player's best friend probably will not work for your player. How far are you willing to drive for a team one level.up? Two levels up? Etc. What is it worth to have more time to do things other than commute and travel? Does that cut down on burnout? Or would playing on a lower skilled team cause burnout? Remember once the whistle blows every game is important to the players no matter what the level. They all want to compete and win. So in short it boils down to the old adage to "know thyself". At the end of the day. The hard starts well before tryout season in observing other teams and coaches, understanding your players commitment and determining the best solution in a very fluid situation. There is responsibility on both the club and parent side. Don't get pressured, because you hold the money and if you don't like their offer, don't give them your cash. Finally, you get.out of things what you out into them. Therefore if your kid puts in good effort into what may seem to be a bad situation at the outset, in the end it'll be alright. I appreciate what you say. Thanks for replying. |
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Post by futbolpapa on Jun 9, 2019 9:03:16 GMT -5
I think what everyone is saying is....that with the amount of $ involved the communication apparatus from the clubs should be at a different level than it's at when dealing with individual players. I hear many complain about not getting evaluations or "fly by" evaluations. These clubs hide behind "non-profit" status but we all know it's big business with a great tax benefit. Parents think because of all the $ they dole out that the clubs should be more transparent and communicative to their "customers". Well, you are not their customer but rather a "donor" supporting a demand that you created. The real lie is the "academy level" or "elite" level status that these clubs push forward to charge more $. We all know that outside of the top 2 teams at 90% of the big clubs and only the top team at the smaller clubs that it really should be called "recreational soccer", where the kids practice 2 x's per week, are coached by a volunteer parent & play a local game on Saturday for fun. However, if that were the case they could only charge you $150 instead of $1,500 and you couldn't brag that your lil' johnny plays "elite" soccer. At the core, the clubs are simply providing a service that the parents want for their kid while stringing them along that the kid is better than they really are OR simply avoiding that conversation altogether so they don't lose a donor that renews their gift annually. The parents need to wake up! Even if your kid is in that 2-3% that gets a scholly it's still going to be for 1/4 - 1/2 of the college cost at the most and usually at a college that the kid wouldn't want to attend but for that very reason that they are giving them a few dollars to do so. Unfortunately, most parents don't realize how much $ they've wasted until the kid is a JR in HS and they could've put that $10K+ into a college fund and drawn interest all this time. Welcome to youth sports in America! Don't blame the clubs or their leaders. They are simply doing what the market demands and it's only growing. If there's a lack of value in these services the parents don't pull out of the system they simply switch clubs until they hear what they want. Unfortunately, the clubs rarely have to deal with the ramifications of their lack of transparency and business acumen because there are always new "donors" to fill the pipeline regardless of their ineptitude. It's the perfect business to be in and you don't even have to pay taxes on your profits.
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Post by freeyouthsoccer on Jun 9, 2019 9:40:04 GMT -5
I think what everyone is saying is....that with the amount of $ involved the communication apparatus from the clubs should be at a different level than it's at when dealing with individual players. I hear many complain about not getting evaluations or "fly by" evaluations. These clubs hide behind "non-profit" status but we all know it's big business with a great tax benefit. Parents think because of all the $ they dole out that the clubs should be more transparent and communicative to their "customers". Well, you are not their customer but rather a "donor" supporting a demand that you created. The real lie is the "academy level" or "elite" level status that these clubs push forward to charge more $. We all know that outside of the top 2 teams at 90% of the big clubs and only the top team at the smaller clubs that it really should be called "recreational soccer", where the kids practice 2 x's per week, are coached by a volunteer parent & play a local game on Saturday for fun. However, if that were the case they could only charge you $150 instead of $1,500 and you couldn't brag that your lil' johnny plays "elite" soccer. At the core, the clubs are simply providing a service that the parents want for their kid while stringing them along that the kid is better than they really are OR simply avoiding that conversation altogether so they don't lose a donor that renews their gift annually. The parents need to wake up! Even if your kid is in that 2-3% that gets a scholly it's still going to be for 1/4 - 1/2 of the college cost at the most and usually at a college that the kid wouldn't want to attend but for that very reason that they are giving them a few dollars to do so. Unfortunately, most parents don't realize how much $ they've wasted until the kid is a JR in HS and they could've put that $10K+ into a college fund and drawn interest all this time. Welcome to youth sports in America! Don't blame the clubs or their leaders. They are simply doing what the market demands and it's only growing. If there's a lack of value in these services the parents don't pull out of the system they simply switch clubs until they hear what they want. Unfortunately, the clubs rarely have to deal with the ramifications of their lack of transparency and business acumen because there are always new "donors" to fill the pipeline regardless of their ineptitude. It's the perfect business to be in and you don't even have to pay taxes on your profits. Boom. Mic dropped. I'm going to have to read and re-read this very interesting take. Thanks. |
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Post by watchme25 on Jun 9, 2019 11:25:48 GMT -5
I think what everyone is saying is....that with the amount of $ involved the communication apparatus from the clubs should be at a different level than it's at when dealing with individual players. I hear many complain about not getting evaluations or "fly by" evaluations. These clubs hide behind "non-profit" status but we all know it's big business with a great tax benefit. Parents think because of all the $ they dole out that the clubs should be more transparent and communicative to their "customers". Well, you are not their customer but rather a "donor" supporting a demand that you created. The real lie is the "academy level" or "elite" level status that these clubs push forward to charge more $. We all know that outside of the top 2 teams at 90% of the big clubs and only the top team at the smaller clubs that it really should be called "recreational soccer", where the kids practice 2 x's per week, are coached by a volunteer parent & play a local game on Saturday for fun. However, if that were the case they could only charge you $150 instead of $1,500 and you couldn't brag that your lil' johnny plays "elite" soccer. At the core, the clubs are simply providing a service that the parents want for their kid while stringing them along that the kid is better than they really are OR simply avoiding that conversation altogether so they don't lose a donor that renews their gift annually. The parents need to wake up! Even if your kid is in that 2-3% that gets a scholly it's still going to be for 1/4 - 1/2 of the college cost at the most and usually at a college that the kid wouldn't want to attend but for that very reason that they are giving them a few dollars to do so. Unfortunately, most parents don't realize how much $ they've wasted until the kid is a JR in HS and they could've put that $10K+ into a college fund and drawn interest all this time. Welcome to youth sports in America! Don't blame the clubs or their leaders. They are simply doing what the market demands and it's only growing. If there's a lack of value in these services the parents don't pull out of the system they simply switch clubs until they hear what they want. Unfortunately, the clubs rarely have to deal with the ramifications of their lack of transparency and business acumen because there are always new "donors" to fill the pipeline regardless of their ineptitude. It's the perfect business to be in and you don't even have to pay taxes on your profits. LMAO, you all are kidding yourselves. While I don’t disagree with all of this, I think it makes parents come off as innocent victims of big bad clubs. In my view, The parents are not just Little Red Riding Hood innocently ho humming along just quietly saying their daily prayers for a spot, any spot, for little Sally or Billy. That is **NOT** what is happening... definitely not at the upper levels. In my experience, it’s the PARENTS who are the blood thirsty wolves. I have never in my life experienced such conniving immoral human beings as wealthy parents trying to ass kiss, complain, demand, threaten and do whatever it takes to get special little Sally/Billy a spot on a team or a position or playing time. I think most (not all)... but most of you all are a bunch of Aunt Becky’s and are lying to yourselves in an attempt to stroke your own egos. I do agree that clubs are catering to the demand of needing to feel “special” and “elite”. Can you blame them? If I was a business, I would cater to the demand too! |
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Post by futbolpapa on Jun 9, 2019 12:31:04 GMT -5
Not sure how what I wrote could be construed to blame the clubs. As stated, the parents asked for a product in the marketplace by which their kids could be labeled “elite” or “academy” & the clubs simply obliged. The clubs didnt create it but many are happy to exploit this set up at every turn. Yes, both are to blame. The parents are the ones that are being exploited but are willfully so & are often outrageous & delusional in their behavior to get what they want. There’s no mistaking that and I can’t blame the clubs for wanting to keep their distance from parents in many cases.
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Post by watchme25 on Jun 9, 2019 13:21:02 GMT -5
Not sure how what I wrote could be construed to blame the clubs. As stated, the parents asked for a product in the marketplace by which their kids could be labeled “elite” or “academy” & the clubs simply obliged. The clubs didnt create it but many are happy to exploit this set up at every turn. Yes, both are to blame. The parents are the ones that are being exploited but are willfully so & are often outrageous & delusional in their behavior to get what they want. There’s no mistaking that and I can’t blame the clubs for wanting to keep their distance from parents in many cases. You are right, I guess my response wasn’t specifically to your post, but more to the general sentiment of the thread regarding the “big bad clubs” and “poor innocent parents”. Such BS!! lol And this crap about needing to “call the coach” before going to an ID camp or tryout is nothing but Ass Kissing 101. Do they teach that in rich people school or something??? I guarantee if entitled parents were not calling coaches and announcing their presence... errr I mean influence, we would see VERY different teams on the field. A kid should show up, put the number on, and just play. Period. Let the skill do the talking!!!! But almost none of you do that. How does that ass kissing conversation go... MY kid played at “this” club, MY kid played at “that” level, MY kid was on ODP, MY kid is more special than everyone else’s kid... blah blah blah. So pathetic. A lot of you need to go home and spend some extra time brushing your teeth. LOL You don’t have to do that. We have never made a phone call, ever, nor have we ever had a conversation about playing time or position and still manage to play and start (most of the time) at the highest level. When someone says “trust the process”, I have to roll my eyes because the only process I’m aware of is money, influence, and ass kissing. But I guess that’s exactly what Pay to Play means. |
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Post by soccerparent02 on Jun 9, 2019 14:07:38 GMT -5
I would never call a coach. Kids played 13 years of soccer and can honestly say as parents we've never discussed playing time or position with any coach. Our experience was the coaches reached out or had another parent reach out to our player if they had interest. I think the other way seems odd and puts the coach and player in a tough spot.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jun 9, 2019 16:08:21 GMT -5
Not sure how what I wrote could be construed to blame the clubs. As stated, the parents asked for a product in the marketplace by which their kids could be labeled “elite” or “academy” & the clubs simply obliged. The clubs didnt create it but many are happy to exploit this set up at every turn. Yes, both are to blame. The parents are the ones that are being exploited but are willfully so & are often outrageous & delusional in their behavior to get what they want. There’s no mistaking that and I can’t blame the clubs for wanting to keep their distance from parents in many cases. You are right, I guess my response wasn’t specifically to your post, but more to the general sentiment of the thread regarding the “big bad clubs” and “poor innocent parents”. Such BS!! lol And this crap about needing to “call the coach” before going to an ID camp or tryout is nothing but Ass Kissing 101. Do they teach that in rich people school or something??? I guarantee if entitled parents were not calling coaches and announcing their presence... errr I mean influence, we would see VERY different teams on the field. A kid should show up, put the number on, and just play. Period. Let the skill do the talking!!!! But almost none of you do that. How does that ass kissing conversation go... MY kid played at “this” club, MY kid played at “that” level, MY kid was on ODP, MY kid is more special than everyone else’s kid... blah blah blah. So pathetic. A lot of you need to go home and spend some extra time brushing your teeth. LOL You don’t have to do that. We have never made a phone call, ever, nor have we ever had a conversation about playing time or position and still manage to play and start (most of the time) at the highest level. When someone says “trust the process”, I have to roll my eyes because the only process I’m aware of is money, influence, and ass kissing. But I guess that’s exactly what Pay to Play means. While a lot of what you are saying is true I can state with conviction that the "immoral" behavior is not just a rich people thing, nor do all rich people do it. Blaming the culture solely on the rich (a very relative term for sure) is definitely off base. This is not just a soccer thing either. Talk to any teacher and they will tell you that this culture of "helping" their children is widespread and not an economic issue, it is a parenting issue. |
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Post by watchme25 on Jun 9, 2019 16:42:34 GMT -5
You are right, I guess my response wasn’t specifically to your post, but more to the general sentiment of the thread regarding the “big bad clubs” and “poor innocent parents”. Such BS!! lol And this crap about needing to “call the coach” before going to an ID camp or tryout is nothing but Ass Kissing 101. Do they teach that in rich people school or something??? I guarantee if entitled parents were not calling coaches and announcing their presence... errr I mean influence, we would see VERY different teams on the field. A kid should show up, put the number on, and just play. Period. Let the skill do the talking!!!! But almost none of you do that. How does that ass kissing conversation go... MY kid played at “this” club, MY kid played at “that” level, MY kid was on ODP, MY kid is more special than everyone else’s kid... blah blah blah. So pathetic. A lot of you need to go home and spend some extra time brushing your teeth. LOL You don’t have to do that. We have never made a phone call, ever, nor have we ever had a conversation about playing time or position and still manage to play and start (most of the time) at the highest level. When someone says “trust the process”, I have to roll my eyes because the only process I’m aware of is money, influence, and ass kissing. But I guess that’s exactly what Pay to Play means. While a lot of what you are saying is true I can state with conviction that the "immoral" behavior is not just a rich people thing, nor do all rich people do it. Blaming the culture solely on the rich (a very relative term for sure) is definitely off base. This is not just a soccer thing either. Talk to any teacher and they will tell you that this culture of "helping" their children is widespread and not an economic issue, it is a parenting issue. Yes, I’m halfway being facetious. I never said that immorality is ONLY for the wealthy. but the Aunt Becky syndrome is real. And 100% exists in “pay to play” soccer. I think if more people were wealthy, they would also use that wealth to scam the system. Wealth buys access. Regular people don’t have influence to get access in order to ass kiss. They have to have an actual quality player to get in the door and on top teams. This is not true for those with influence... because influence can absolutely get a mediocre player on a top team. It happens often. Agreed that lawnmower parenting is a problem in general though But the point still stands, if you have to contact coach’s and make your presence felt and influence known, then you probably already know that your kid doesn’t belong on that team. People should let the play speak for itself. Some of us have to... some of us don’t. My main Annoyance and point was not that rich people do what rich people do. My annoyance was that they complain about how terrible clubs are while they are Mr/Mrs innocent. They played the game and got burned and then come to boards like this when they didn’t get what they wanted. Just a minor pet peeve of mine. |
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Post by mistergrinch on Jun 9, 2019 17:02:23 GMT -5
I’ll turn the tables and look at the other side of things, not to discount any of the troubles that people have at try-outs, but to point out another issue I see a great deal in coaching recently. When did players and parents start shopping so incredibly hard every try-out season and seemingly having no reservations whatsoever about committing to one team only to turn around and accept another perceived better offer hours or days afterward? I can’t tell you how many coaches I know made an offer to a player, had it accepted, and then had the player or parent pull out of the commitment at some point in the next couple hours/days. I think upstanding behavior and as this thread terms it, morals, have declined drastically on both sides of the try-out issue. I remember looking for a job as a teenager. I did a bunch of interviews. Kentucky Fried Chicken called me back first and because I wanted some money very badly, I accepted. The next day, Six Flags called me and offered a job I would have liked much better. I accepted and was going to call KFC back and let them know I wouldn’t be coming there to work after all. Between the two phone calls I yelled to my dad in my excitement that I got a job at Six Flags. He walked into the kitchen a little confused and asked, “I thought you took the KFC job yesterday?” I told him I did, but now I was going to Six Flags. He calmly sat down and told me no I wasn’t. I had accepted a position and I was going to follow through on that. He made me call Six Flags back and explain the situation and made me work at KFC for no less than six months, which he deemed sufficient for the commitment I’d given. I ended up staying for 9 months until the next summer vacation. My point being, when did our yes become so flimsy? Just like my job saga, when a coach offers a player a spot in a team he is doing so at the expense of other players who really want that spot. When he offers you, he is declining them. If you say yes and then renege, you leave the coach and team in the lurch just as badly and have behaved just as badly as all the horror stories people have told over the years about the clubs at tryouts.
Your father taught you a valuable lesson for the 1970s.. and a shizatty lesson for the current time. In our parents' time, loyalty meant something and it went both ways. You worked for a company and retired with a gold watch and a pension. That ship has sailed. How many people do you know who've worked for one company for more than 5-10 years? I bet it's not that many - and more than that is pretty damn rare.
There is no loyalty anymore. Employees are expected to put in notice, employers can fire you immediately (without cause in most places) and STILL enforce non-competes. Ask anyone in the tech business how loyalty works out.
I do think that the clubs owe the players and parents a LOT more transparency in general. I've seen far too many times where kids are yanked around and still left off a team, or teams filled long before tryouts (often by outside players). Parents can afford to be straight with the clubs when the clubs are straight with them.
Does this arrangement suck? yep. But it's what we have - and it's not limited to soccer.
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Post by paterfamilias on Jun 9, 2019 18:53:31 GMT -5
Couldn't agree more with old boy.
Say what you mean and mean what you say may not always be in style but it is always a moral to live by.
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Post by paterfamilias on Jun 9, 2019 18:55:34 GMT -5
As to speaking with coaches I think it is is important to ask direct firm questions about where your kid stands and expect a direct firm answer.
Evaluate the answer based on what you know of the person and human nature.
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Post by watchme25 on Jun 9, 2019 19:53:58 GMT -5
As to speaking with coaches I think it is is important to ask direct firm questions about where your kid stands and expect a direct firm answer. Evaluate the answer based on what you know of the person and human nature. Yes, when the coach contacts you to offer you a spot. Then ask him where you see your kid fitting in to his team. Depending on the answer, accept or decline. Simple as that! I think what happens most of the time, is parents call BEFORE the ID camp or tryout to ass kiss and tell coach how awesome how special their Sally/Billy is. So the coach returns the ass kissing attempt with a little bullsh*t of his own. After the 2 of you have sufficiently ass kissed and bullsh*tted each other... comes tryouts. If your kid is as great as you said, then you might get an offer. But let’s be honest, if your kid was as great as you say... you wouldn’t have needed to make the “introduction” phone call to begin with. 9 times out of 10, parents WAY oversell their kid, if not flat out lie, and the kid either doesn’t get an offer or gets one but rides the bench or isn’t used in the way the coach promised he would be used. Then of course the parent comes to this board to whine how they have been wronged and cheated. The entitlement tears still dripping from their cheeks. BUT if the parent hadn’t tried to manipulate and influence and ass kids in the first place, the coach would not have had to make these promises he couldn’t keep when he realized the kid sucked. Moral of the story.., let your kid’s playing do the talking! If coach likes it, they will reach out to you. There are kids out there getting spots on high level teams just by showing up to play. |
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Post by paterfamilias on Jun 9, 2019 20:11:04 GMT -5
While that may be true, that parents over sell their kids, if a coach is taken by this ruse the team will not be as good as it could be.
My experience has been the really good coaches can separate the wheat from the chaffe. Otherwise the teams would not do well
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Post by watchme25 on Jun 9, 2019 20:53:19 GMT -5
While that may be true, that parents over sell their kids, if a coach is taken by this ruse the team will not be as good as it could be. My experience has been the really good coaches can separate the wheat from the chaffe. Otherwise the teams would not do well Yes, Atlanta has a wealth of talent and the demand for “elite” teams is high. As I said in my original post, parents on high level teams are the worst in their entitlement, demands, and influence. And they DO NOT feel at all bad about it. LOL But the point still remains that the only reason a parent calls the coach before a tryout is to garner influence thru manipulation and ass kissing. The post is about morals vs business. I guess I would argue pay for play soccer is an A-moral experience at best. And I feel that entitled parents are the reason for the destruction of the morals. There are A TON of Aunt Becky’s out there!! |
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