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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 28, 2019 8:06:07 GMT -5
My fault for a bad joke. My point was that those leagues are so bad, they may pave the way for other alternatives. That crossover weekend y'all. I wouldnt be surprised if I found out a middle school class president ran it. I think you are talking about SCCL/SCCL-P. First hand experience there hasn't been many negatives of the league compared to the Classic/Athena leagues in fact more games, most games being played on turf where available, trainers and tents up just like DA. I would actually say the SCCL experience has been much better than GA soccer. That being said the crossover weekend was a debacle and it wasn't the rain, it was the lack of referees. So if they are going to plan an event like this next time they need to plan it a lot more in advance than they did this time. If that is the only issue we have had so far, that is not that big of a deal in the scheme of the whole league. As someone whose kid played in the weather during what would have been the crossover weekend, be glad they canceled it for whatever reason. It was miserable and made for difficult soccer even on turf. The second half the ball was stopping due to the water on the field and it would have been worse on grass. It was also cold by 3 (48 degrees) and when you are drenched and it is 48 it is not pleasant. Imagine playing and being drenched then sitting out for the last 12 or so minutes when you have nothing dry left to put on. Gloves are soaked. Clothing soaked. It was a bad day to play soccer. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Oct 28, 2019 10:14:06 GMT -5
On the plus side, at least they canceled the event a day or 2 in advance, rather than the teams from SC getting to ATL and finding there are no referees or field or they cancel due to rain at the last minute.
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thip
Jr. Academy
Posts: 33
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Post by thip on Oct 28, 2019 11:52:37 GMT -5
The changes to Piedmont conference is not that much of a change. Tier II stays the same. 12 teams from Ga, SC and NC. Tier I adds Fl to the mix. There's currently 8 team in Piedmont Tier I. Top 6 stay in Tier I and combine with Sunshine Conference. Bottom two in Tier I go to Tier II. Top team in Tier II advances up to Tier I.
2.02 Premier I Qualification for 2020-21
The Piedmont Conference and the Sunshine Conference will be merged for the 2020-21 seasonal year. The merged Conference format will include a single tier of competition (Premier I) that includes up to fourteen (14) teams. The Conference will qualify these fourteen (14) teams into the Premier I tier competition for the 2020-21 Conference season using the following criteria.
The six (6) highest finishing teams in each 13U-18U Premier I gender age group, according to the standings of the 2019-20 Piedmont Conference season shall automatically qualify for their rising gender age group in their 2020-21 Conference.
The top finishing team in each 14U-18U Boys Premier II age group, according to the final standings of the 2019-20 Piedmont Conference season shall automatically qualify for their rising age group in their 2020-21 Conference.
The top two (2) highest finishing teams in each 13U-18U Premier I gender age group, according to the standings of the 2019-20 Sunshine Conference season shall automatically qualify for their rising gender age group in their 2020-21 Conference.
Any team from North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, or Florida that qualifies for a slot in the 2020-21 National League shall automatically qualify in the same gender age group in their 2020-21 Conference.
The State Association of North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia will each receive one (1) qualified Conference slot in each 14U-19U gender age group for a team not already qualified into their 2020-21 Conference. Each State Association must use either their State League or State Cup competition to determine their qualifying team.
Remaining Open Slots (up to 14) will be filled by Open Team Application, with review and acceptance by the Conference Team Selection Committee.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Oct 28, 2019 13:03:49 GMT -5
Ok, so if I'm understanding this...Piedmont Conference Premier II will remain largely unchanged. Florida will join the Piedmont Conference Premier I without having to qualify though Piedmont Premier II (and there won't be a Premier II in for Florida at all). This from the Sunshine conference that in 5 of the 7 boys age groups (and same for the girls) cannot fill out a 6-team bracket (they only play 5 games even with a full bracket). It seems to me that the state of Florida is largely done with USYS RPL/NL. Source: events.gotsport.com/events/Default.aspx?EventID=71148 |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Oct 28, 2019 13:16:28 GMT -5
Its unclear what USYS is trying to accomplish. The old ways are dead or dying state by state (as oldcoach mentioned). There will always be a need for USYS leagues because they're open admittance. So are they trying to compete with ECNL/DA their old way or do something actually valuable?
It seems like if they treated NL like a champions league elimination tournament they could streamline the system a bit. But then that wouldn't be much different from state cup => regionals => nationals.
IMO, the only viable option is to compete on the same terms, club-based state league, club-based NL (which would compete directly with ECNL/DA and be stronger than SCCL/NPL/DPL). They could have the only club-based league with promotion/relegation INTO a travel league.
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Post by ultimatedad on Oct 28, 2019 15:30:07 GMT -5
The problem with it being club based is you get less competitive teams and the quality through out all these leagues is already so low.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Oct 28, 2019 16:57:33 GMT -5
That is certainly possible (a few less competitive teams). But so is 30+% attrition between the end of the previous season and the next season, leading to a less competitive team come the following season. It was just an idea that could be more fair to the majority of clubs. I think you would end up with more mid-level club consolidation of talent (but located geographically rather than a half-dozen clubs north on I-20). The resulting product could be stronger at all ages at some clubs (and you still have the best local clubs playing each other for the most part).
But suddenly its realistically better to be on the first team (with more to play for) at Impact or Roswell or IAFC or MOBA than the 3rd team at NTH or Concorde or SSA (which is not necessarily the case currently).
I maintain that all the brackets could be seeded every August by play-in tournaments. No roster tracking. Everyone plays into their bracket.
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Post by atlsoccerdad on Oct 28, 2019 23:24:16 GMT -5
Fantastic discussion here. It would be great if any new blood in GA Soccer would embrace social media and incorporate it into their process . Maybe have an official account here and post monthly updates and/or solicit feedback from the people on the ground? Might be a difference maker ...
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Post by oldcoach on Oct 29, 2019 6:10:18 GMT -5
Fantastic discussion here. It would be great if any new blood in GA Soccer would embrace social media and incorporate it into their process . Maybe have an official account here and post monthly updates and/or solicit feedback from the people on the ground? Might be a difference maker ... I guess I would still want to know who is making those decisions. There is no executive director and the new president is the former adult representative. It will be interesting to see where ga soccer and the board go from here. |
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Post by soccerspin on Nov 5, 2019 23:40:59 GMT -5
Regarding Piedmont Conference, current season for Premier 2 14u Boys is ONLY NC and GA so a total of 8 teams. After the season started we were told the SC games were moving to the spring. A couple months later, we were told no SC games at all. Based on this, I cannot imagine SC teams magically appearing next year, so if no FL teams are added at the Premier 2 level, then it would be another season of 8 teams. Not good.
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Post by USoCcer on Nov 6, 2019 9:54:03 GMT -5
Also, regarding Piedmont Conference, are we to surmise that this will apply to the girl's side as well since there is no Premier II on the girls side?
So qualification for 20-21 on the girls side would look like this?
Top 6 from Piedmont for the prior year
Top 2 from Sunshine
State Cup / Athena A winner from GA, SC, FL and NC
That's a 12 team bracket depending on who wins State Cup in the various states.
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Post by damonsta on Nov 6, 2019 11:13:32 GMT -5
Regarding Piedmont Conference, current season for Premier 2 14u Boys is ONLY NC and GA so a total of 8 teams. After the season started we were told the SC games were moving to the spring. A couple months later, we were told no SC games at all. Based on this, I cannot imagine SC teams magically appearing next year, so if no FL teams are added at the Premier 2 level, then it would be another season of 8 teams. Not good. I think for U14, one of those teams is actually SC but treated NC as home. As for Premier 2, I interpret the qualification for next year to mean there will be no Premier 2 when they say single tier of competition. "The Piedmont Conference and the Sunshine Conference will be merged for the 2020-21 seasonal year. The merged Conference format will include a single tier of competition (Premier I) that includes up to fourteen (14) teams. The Conference will qualify these fourteen (14) teams into the Premier I tier competition for the 2020-21 Conference season using the following criteria." I have so far been disappointed with the way Piedmont has been handled for this year with only 8 teams. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Nov 6, 2019 14:01:18 GMT -5
How NL should work IMO...
4 teams from each state GA-SC-NC-FL (yes, 16 teams). These are split into 2 divisions North (NC-SC) & South (GA-FL).
Within your division:
Play each team in your state twice (6 games)
Play home-OR-away with the other state's team (4 games, meaning ONE travel weekend)
So that's a minimum of 10 games with only ONE travel weekend.
Then it moves to a regional division champions bracket:
The top 4 teams from the division play in 2 showcase weekends against the other division in November; one in Savannah/Jacksonville and one in Charlotte.
Minimum 10 games, maximum 14. Top 2 teams from the resgion should be automatic qualifiers for USYS Regional tournament.
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Post by footballer on Nov 13, 2019 10:03:17 GMT -5
Why not have top teams from each club in a mega tournament, champions league style. Big clubs may have 2_3 teams and other clubs 1 team. For example Concorde could have da team, ecnl team and sccl team for 04 age group, gsa would have ecnl and sccl, ufa will have da,NL and sccl then ksa will have one top team from that age group. What do you guys think? This will be only ga teams.
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Post by mistergrinch on Nov 13, 2019 10:04:55 GMT -5
Why not have top teams from each club in a mega tournament, champions league style. Big clubs may have 2_3 teams and other clubs 1 team. For example Concorde could have da team, ecnl team and sccl team for 04 age group, gsa would have ecnl and sccl, ufa will have da,NL and sccl then ksa will have one top team from that age group. What do you guys think? This will be only ga teams. Would be fun.. almost like having a statewide tournament of teams competing for a cup? |
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Post by footballer on Nov 13, 2019 11:25:37 GMT -5
Yes that was probably why state cup was, only this time, include da and ecnl teams. I know, I know they are elite and all that but if Barcelona can play atalanta why not.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Nov 13, 2019 11:32:47 GMT -5
Why not have top teams from each club in a mega tournament, champions league style. Big clubs may have 2_3 teams and other clubs 1 team. For example Concorde could have da team, ecnl team and sccl team for 04 age group, gsa would have ecnl and sccl, ufa will have da,NL and sccl then ksa will have one top team from that age group. What do you guys think? This will be only ga teams. So in lieu of the Ga Soccer State Cup, we would have more of a City Cup Tourney. Maybe call it the MAC Cup - Metro Atlanta Champions Cup. It would be for the ages of U12s, U13s, U14s, U15s, U16s, U17s and U18s. Minimum of one team and a max of two per club(sorry NTH). Like the real CL, everyone gets to play in for the Championship weekend. Counting on my toes n fingers, that comes t o a minimum of 56 teams with a max of 112. Play-in games occur during the big holiday weekends throughout the year(Labor day, MLK day, Columbus day, Veterans day, etc.) Format Saturday: Quarter-finals - 8 teams, 4 games per age group Sunday: Semi-finals - 4 teams, 2 games per age group Monday: Championships 2 teams, 1 game per age group Rules - Georgia teams only... - Metro Atlanta teams only... - Played Memorial Day weekend... - Maximum rosters of 18 per team... - Each club enters their two top teams only... - You're allowed to pool players from multiple locations... - Open to both boys n girls teams and yes AU can play too... - Games played Saturday, Sunday and Monday(championship games)... - No we shouldn't pay an outside firm(ex. US Club) to run it, keep it local... - Set fees of $450 for one team, $900 for two teams, which works to $25 per player... - Make use of the member club fees, no additional costs for travel, hotel, coach per-diem, etc... - No! You can not bring down players, so if you're rostered on an ECNL team, you can't now go play ECNL... - All fees go towards tourney directors(rotates between clubs, like hosts)trophies/medals, referees and recruitment of top college coaches and scouts(hospitality shenanigans)... I will now sit back and await your thoughts, changes, comments and suggestions |
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Post by footballer on Nov 13, 2019 12:21:19 GMT -5
[/quote]
- No! You can not bring down players, so if you're rostered on an ECNL team, you can't now go play ECNL...
I will now sit back and await your thoughts, changes, comments and suggestions[/quote]
Sounds like a fantastic idea....I dont get the bring down players, Can you elaborate?
By the way, a tournament of this magnitude will bring a lot of $$ and publicity for Atlanta area clubs
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Post by mistergrinch on Nov 13, 2019 12:27:18 GMT -5
There are certain clubs in the area who make a habit out of doing this. Generally propping up their 2nd or 3rd teams in their respective leagues by playing down players from the 1st or 2nd teams.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 13, 2019 12:47:25 GMT -5
In all seriousness --- is Georgia soccer having conversations with other states about the current youth landscape.
I don't see how its possible for State Associations to become relevant again ---
I think a lot of the issues with soccer stem with the fact that we are trying to do it the right way.
7v7 to 9v9 to 11v11.
Small cubs can compete at 7v7 and 9v9 but once you have to get 14-18 kids in age group, it becomes more of a challenge.
Would be a different landscape if you started with 11v11 (not saying we should at all) --
Is there any other sport where the number of players on the field change as the kids age up?
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Post by mistergrinch on Nov 13, 2019 13:01:55 GMT -5
I think they do 7v7 lacrosse now. Also 7v7 football for a lot of the camps, etc.
Basketball does 5v5, but with lower baskets.
Not a lot of other sports where it makes sense, but having a 6yo running a 110yd pitch is silly. It's what we did as kids, and ... it was silly.
In Spain and other european countries, they play small sided to even older ages.. some even have a build-out line (see the 'la liga promises' tournaments)
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Post by Keeper on Nov 13, 2019 13:03:39 GMT -5
In all seriousness --- is Georgia soccer having conversations with other states about the current youth landscape. I don't see how its possible for State Associations to become relevant again --- I think a lot of the issues with soccer stem with the fact that we are trying to do it the right way. 7v7 to 9v9 to 11v11. Small cubs can compete at 7v7 and 9v9 but once you have to get 14-18 kids in age group, it becomes more of a challenge. Would be a different landscape if you started with 11v11 (not saying we should at all) -- Is there any other sport where the number of players on the field change as the kids age up? Not any major sports that I’m aware of. Field size, goal size and amount of players all change. Hmm makes you wonder why do we have to get to 11v11 so fast?? I still believe 11v11 should not start till U15s. U6-8s 4v4, U9-11 7v7, U12-14 9v9 and U15s up 11v11. Can only help development, oh and if it was good enough for Messi then it’s good for your kid too. |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Nov 13, 2019 15:42:22 GMT -5
There are certain clubs in the area who make a habit out of doing this. Generally propping up their 2nd or 3rd teams in their respective leagues by playing down players from the 1st or 2nd teams.
I couldn't have explained it any better... |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Nov 13, 2019 15:47:19 GMT -5
By the way, a tournament of this magnitude will bring a lot of $$ and publicity for Atlanta area clubs[/quote] I concur, ergo why I suggested that the $$$ made from this tourney/showcase be used to put on a first class operation to wine and dine the elite college coaches & scouts from near & far to the ATL... |
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Post by paterfamilias on Nov 13, 2019 19:24:24 GMT -5
Why not have top teams from each club in a mega tournament, champions league style. Big clubs may have 2_3 teams and other clubs 1 team. For example Concorde could have da team, ecnl team and sccl team for 04 age group, gsa would have ecnl and sccl, ufa will have da,NL and sccl then ksa will have one top team from that age group. What do you guys think? This will be only ga teams. So in lieu of the Ga Soccer State Cup, we would have more of a City Cup Tourney. Maybe call it the MAC Cup - Metro Atlanta Champions Cup. It would be for the ages of U12s, U13s, U14s, U15s, U16s, U17s and U18s. Minimum of one team and a max of two per club(sorry NTH). Like the real CL, everyone gets to play in for the Championship weekend. Counting on my toes n fingers, that comes t o a minimum of 56 teams with a max of 112. Play-in games occur during the big holiday weekends throughout the year(Labor day, MLK day, Columbus day, Veterans day, etc.) Format Saturday: Quarter-finals - 8 teams, 4 games per age group Sunday: Semi-finals - 4 teams, 2 games per age group Monday: Championships 2 teams, 1 game per age group Rules - Georgia teams only... - Metro Atlanta teams only... - Played Memorial Day weekend... - Maximum rosters of 18 per team... - Each club enters their two top teams only... - You're allowed to pool players from multiple locations... - Open to both boys n girls teams and yes AU can play too... - Games played Saturday, Sunday and Monday(championship games)... - No we shouldn't pay an outside firm(ex. US Club) to run it, keep it local... - Set fees of $450 for one team, $900 for two teams, which works to $25 per player... - Make use of the member club fees, no additional costs for travel, hotel, coach per-diem, etc... - No! You can not bring down players, so if you're rostered on an ECNL team, you can't now go play ECNL... - All fees go towards tourney directors(rotates between clubs, like hosts)trophies/medals, referees and recruitment of top college coaches and scouts(hospitality shenanigans)... I will now sit back and await your thoughts, changes, comments and suggestions A variation of this has been proposed and may still be in discussions. A state wide Georgia Cup where any team from any club can enter. The thinking is the winner would be the true Georgia State champion. Other details would be early games held at higher seeded clubs fields until the tournament was narrowed down to 16 teams. Called the Georgia Open Cup |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 13, 2019 19:26:41 GMT -5
Winning team members - play for free the following season!
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Post by footballer on Nov 13, 2019 19:35:38 GMT -5
There are certain clubs in the area who make a habit out of doing this. Generally propping up their 2nd or 3rd teams in their respective leagues by playing down players from the 1st or 2nd teams.
I couldn't have explained it any better... To be clear, say Johnny plays on GSA ecnl team, the club decides to play him with the sccl team which is supposedly the next team below. Is this what you guys are referring to? I'm not sure how that benefits GSA. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Nov 13, 2019 19:45:46 GMT -5
I couldn't have explained it any better... To be clear, say Johnny plays on GSA ecnl team, the club decides to play him with the sccl team which is supposedly the next team below. Is this what you guys are referring to? I'm not sure how that benefits GSA. It benefits "GSA" (in this hypothetical example) because the ECNL teams have not played in state Cup in the past several years (if ever?) and they get to boost their lower team and if they win get to say they are State Cup champs. Bragging rights. PR. Also the players put that on their college resumes. It boosts the team's ranking on some systems like gotsoccer. |
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Post by footballer on Nov 13, 2019 19:58:44 GMT -5
To be clear, say Johnny plays on GSA ecnl team, the club decides to play him with the sccl team which is supposedly the next team below. Is this what you guys are referring to? I'm not sure how that benefits GSA. It benefits "GSA" (in this hypothetical example) because the ECNL teams have not played in state Cup in the past several years (if ever?) and they get to boost their lower team and if they win get to say they are State Cup champs. Bragging rights. PR. Also the players put that on their college resumes. It boosts the team's ranking on some systems like gotsoccer. Would it not be smart to make sure your top team has all the players needed to have a successful run or possibly winning as opposed to losing a couple of players to your second team (the bar is not as high) with little expectation to go far. Both teams could end up not getting past group stage. I dont know, maybe it's just me |
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Post by footballer on Nov 13, 2019 20:11:03 GMT -5
Winning team members - play for free the following season! This should surely be part of the agreement. Along with Top 4 teams getting automatic qualification following season. Oh yeah! Bottom 4 get kicked out and bring in new teams based on performances in their regular league games |
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