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Post by atlsoccerdad on Oct 24, 2019 8:07:54 GMT -5
I know many have gripes with GA Soccer (the governing body, not soccer played in Georgia), and recent events show that some changes are underway... What gripes do people have with the way things have been run? What ideas do people have to fix them in the future? I have a few: - Better season game scheduling and tournament organization
- Better referee oversight, training, and community outreach - (part of the referee problem is lack of GA Soccer visibility and referee oversight
Can anyone add to the list in case anyone from GA Soccer is watching?
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Post by soccerloafer on Oct 24, 2019 9:33:55 GMT -5
The referee problem won't be solved until each club funds a Director of Referees position. With all of the effort put into training players, clubs should at least put some real effort into developing referees.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Oct 24, 2019 10:34:35 GMT -5
I agree with scheduling...
All brackets of 7 teams:
- 12 game season.
- Playing home-and-away with each bracket rival.
- Will require more than 1 Athena or Classic bracket at each level (A, B, I, II, etc).
Scheduling:
- Don't allow teams to backload their game til November as any weather issues may mean games are impossible to makeup.
- Play state cup in DECEMBER. Then you won't have to worry about clubs getting teams back together in May.
Each year play-in bracketing:
- Rather than trying to carryover bracket position from the previous year by comparing rosters, club politics, etc, have a 2-weekend play-in tournament to seed ALL brackets during August (hosted at different clubs). You will have better in-bracket competition and less blowouts during the regular season than the current model.
National League:
- Consider discussing with USYS about making NL spots a champions league/adjunct league, teams play all their local competition and the best are entered into a NL tournament in November.
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Post by soccerdad23 on Oct 24, 2019 11:51:11 GMT -5
I agree with scheduling... All brackets of 7 teams: - 12 game season. - Playing home-and-away with each bracket rival. - Will require more than 1 Athena or Classic bracket at each level (A, B, I, II, etc). Scheduling: - Don't allow teams to backload their game til November as any weather issues may mean games are impossible to makeup. - Play state cup in DECEMBER. Then you won't have to worry about clubs getting teams back together in May. Each year play-in bracketing: - Rather than trying to carryover bracket position from the previous year by comparing rosters, club politics, etc, have a 2-weekend play-in tournament to seed ALL brackets during August (hosted at different clubs). You will have better in-bracket competition and less blowouts during the regular season than the current model. National League: - Consider discussing with USYS about making NL spots a champions league/adjunct league, teams play all their local competition and the best are entered into a NL tournament in November. Good topic! Thanks for starting as I think we all would like to see real effort to improve. I think these are good recommendations, but I am interested on your thoughts as to why it would be better with a home/away with a smaller number of teams vs a larger bracket. I personally always liked the appeal of a wider number of teams to add to the variety. Related to National League, I would move from "consider" changing to "absolutely must change". GA Soccer should embrace GA Soccer as the priority and a)limit the number teams to participate in National League to 2(some ages have 10 teams right now from GA) and get away from the concept that people love to travel for soccer, and b)have those 2 teams only be in National League as adjunct and still participate in full GA Soccer schedule. GA Soccer(and all organizations) need to stop thinking we need to chase competition when it is all right here. Embrace that and be different than the other leagues. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Oct 24, 2019 12:12:10 GMT -5
One thing I'd argue is that GA Soccer for ages U15+ needs to be before Christmas. Its gotta be painful to get teams back together in May just to play in state cup tournament for one weekend. Now the teams that win state cup and want to advance to regionals would have to get back together in the Spring, but that's only 12-14 teams instead of 80-100+. Especially when many of those high school kids are in the playoffs. I saw where at least one northern state does this.
For U12 (yes the U12 teams that want to compete) to U14, it should be in the spring as usual.
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Post by soccergurl on Oct 24, 2019 15:29:40 GMT -5
Me thinks we should get rid of ineffective Georgia Soccer
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Post by Keeper on Oct 24, 2019 15:30:11 GMT -5
Funny how everyone wants to move State Cup (U16-U19) to December. They moved President Cup to the Fall a couple years ago and can’t get any attendance. They just rescheduled this years to May 9-10 2020.
Just curious, when should State Cup be played?
First weekend of December against Norcross’s Gen Adidas and GSA Puma Cup?
Or the 2nd weekend of December which is typically the rainiest weekend of the year?
Or make it Thanksgiving weekend Friday-Sunday?
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Post by atlfutboldad on Oct 24, 2019 16:47:36 GMT -5
Considering UFA and GSA won't be playing in state cup, how does those compete (state cup was against GSA's final tournament last year)? Would you rather play for a state championship and big trophy or simple tournament championship?
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Post by EastATL on Oct 24, 2019 17:49:26 GMT -5
The referee problem won't be solved until each club funds a Director of Referees position. With all of the effort put into training players, clubs should at least put some real effort into developing referees. So much this. Another way to improve the quality and quantity of referees over time is to fix the behavior from players, coaches and spectators. We struggle developing them because we don’t show them any love. We lose more referees than we gain every year and the increasing number of leagues and games means more games go uncovered or referees get spread really thin. There’s no reason a referee should be doing more than 3 games in a day, mentally speaking. But the extreme shortage leads them to stretch themselves more than they should. Oh, and there isn’t a practical way to practice as a referee. You go out there on the weekends and learn from your mistakes as you go along. |
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Post by footyfan on Oct 24, 2019 19:33:59 GMT -5
Funny how everyone wants to move State Cup (U16-U19) to December. They moved President Cup to the Fall a couple years ago and can’t get any attendance. They just rescheduled this years to May 9-10 2020. Just curious, when should State Cup be played? First weekend of December against Norcross’s Gen Adidas and GSA Puma Cup? Or the 2nd weekend of December which is typically the rainiest weekend of the year? Or make it Thanksgiving weekend Friday-Sunday? When do other states/leagues have "State Cup"? |
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Post by Keeper on Oct 24, 2019 20:44:16 GMT -5
Funny how everyone wants to move State Cup (U16-U19) to December. They moved President Cup to the Fall a couple years ago and can’t get any attendance. They just rescheduled this years to May 9-10 2020. Just curious, when should State Cup be played? First weekend of December against Norcross’s Gen Adidas and GSA Puma Cup? Or the 2nd weekend of December which is typically the rainiest weekend of the year? Or make it Thanksgiving weekend Friday-Sunday? When do other states/leagues have "State Cup"? South Carolina does there’s Dec 14-15 of this year in Charleston. Alabama does the U15-19 in like late October with Final Four Nov. 1-3. Alabama also only charges $325 to enter State Cup, and then additional $250 if you make the Final Four. Alabama plays in Foley in that gorgeous complex down there on the coast. Florida does a lot of play in games starting in March and April but the Round of 16 is May 16-17, with Finals May 30-31. North Carolina might do it best for the U15-19s. At least one game over each weekend of Nov 2-3 And Nov. 9-10, then the Final Four Nov 16-17. Tennessee does U15-19 Oct. 26-27 with Championship weekend Nov 2-3. U14 and down is Memorial Day weekend With Finals the following weekend. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Oct 25, 2019 10:44:04 GMT -5
The referee problem won't be solved until each club funds a Director of Referees position. With all of the effort put into training players, clubs should at least put some real effort into developing referees. So much this. Another way to improve the quality and quantity of referees over time is to fix the behavior from players, coaches and spectators. We struggle developing them because we don’t show them any love. We lose more referees than we gain every year and the increasing number of leagues and games means more games go uncovered or referees get spread really thin. There’s no reason a referee should be doing more than 3 games in a day, mentally speaking. But the extreme shortage leads them to stretch themselves more than they should. Oh, and there isn’t a practical way to practice as a referee. You go out there on the weekends and learn from your mistakes as you go along.
Disagree - you can absolutely incorporate referee training into practice sessions. At higher levels, it's done all the time - referees work on mechanics, positioning, foul recognition, etc. There are plenty of training videos showing this type of sessions online. Clubs could easily organize an in-house scrimmage day at the start of each season where referees were rotated in and out, mentored, allowed to repeat restarts, etc. To your point about behavior - having better officials reduces bad behavior by players and spectators because there is less to gripe about. Yes, some people will always gripe. But a good referee doing a good job will receive much less criticism and backlash from players, coaches, etc. And often, the backlash is deserved - particularly when referees ignore player safety issues. And I agree 100% with the 3 game per day limit. I refuse assignments past 3, unless it's a tourney with shortened games and favorable weather. Read more: gasoccerforum.com/thread/4402/fix-georgia-soccer#ixzz63NfbPNb6 |
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Post by atlsoccerdad on Oct 26, 2019 6:45:23 GMT -5
Another way to improve the quality and quantity of referees over time is to fix the behavior from players, coaches and spectators. We struggle developing them because we don’t show them any love. We lose more referees than we gain every year and the increasing number of leagues and games means more games go uncovered or referees get spread really thin. There’s no reason a referee should be doing more than 3 games in a day, mentally speaking. But the extreme shortage leads them to stretch themselves more than they should. Oh, and there isn’t a practical way to practice as a referee. You go out there on the weekends and learn from your mistakes as you go along. 1. Agreed about fixing behavior from players, coaches and spectators. That is what I meant by "part of the referee problem is lack of GA Soccer visibility and referee oversight". For example at Disney there is ALWAYS a referee supervisor walking around to handle complaints and disputes - AND to provide immediate feedback at halftime to help encourage and improve the decisions of the referees. 2. There certainly could be some thing done to help referees `practice`. Like a huge refresh to online training materials and additional short videos and quick quizzes each month for referee practices. But the bottom line is putting money and effort into the problem. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 26, 2019 9:27:08 GMT -5
Another way to improve the quality and quantity of referees over time is to fix the behavior from players, coaches and spectators. We struggle developing them because we don’t show them any love. We lose more referees than we gain every year and the increasing number of leagues and games means more games go uncovered or referees get spread really thin. There’s no reason a referee should be doing more than 3 games in a day, mentally speaking. But the extreme shortage leads them to stretch themselves more than they should. Oh, and there isn’t a practical way to practice as a referee. You go out there on the weekends and learn from your mistakes as you go along. 1. Agreed about fixing behavior from players, coaches and spectators. That is what I meant by "part of the referee problem is lack of GA Soccer visibility and referee oversight". For example at Disney there is ALWAYS a referee supervisor walking around to handle complaints and disputes - AND to provide immediate feedback at halftime to help encourage and improve the decisions of the referees. 2. There certainly could be some thing done to help referees `practice`. Like a huge refresh to online training materials and additional short videos and quick quizzes each month for referee practices. But the bottom line in putting money and effort into the problem. Some clubs offer free "referee practice." My child has gone to a half dozen training sessions for referees. She would go to more if she had time. |
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Post by heretounderstand on Oct 26, 2019 13:35:14 GMT -5
Another way to improve the quality and quantity of referees over time is to fix the behavior from players, coaches and spectators. We struggle developing them because we don’t show them any love. We lose more referees than we gain every year and the increasing number of leagues and games means more games go uncovered or referees get spread really thin. There’s no reason a referee should be doing more than 3 games in a day, mentally speaking. But the extreme shortage leads them to stretch themselves more than they should. Oh, and there isn’t a practical way to practice as a referee. You go out there on the weekends and learn from your mistakes as you go along. 1. Agreed about fixing behavior from players, coaches and spectators. That is what I meant by "part of the referee problem is lack of GA Soccer visibility and referee oversight". For example at Disney there is ALWAYS a referee supervisor walking around to handle complaints and disputes - AND to provide immediate feedback at halftime to help encourage and improve the decisions of the referees. 2. There certainly could be some thing done to help referees `practice`. Like a huge refresh to online training materials and additional short videos and quick quizzes each month for referee practices. But the bottom line in putting money and effort into the problem. As far as referees...At the youngest age group ODP region games in Wilson the North Carolina soccer association (or whatever their state assoc. is called) trains referees there because it's not an outcome based event but still real time experience. There is an experienced ref AR and some training refs walking the area and overseeing. I thought that was a fantastic idea. I didn't see it this year though so maybe they have discontinued doing it. I think real time training when the outcome is moot is a great idea. |
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Post by rifle on Oct 26, 2019 15:30:09 GMT -5
I don’t know how the rest of the state (or country) does it but my local referee assignor is awesome. If I ask for some extra practice, I get offered scrimmages. If I ask for older rec game centers or some younger select AR assignments to try and gain experience, I get them.
If fans simply consider that a ref can’t see everything every time, and chill out a bit we’d have a LOT more young referees willing to continue making some nice money working games.
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Post by atlsoccerdad on Oct 26, 2019 17:13:08 GMT -5
I don’t know how the rest of the state (or country) does it but my local referee assignor is awesome. If I ask for some extra practice, I get offered scrimmages. If I ask for older rec game centers or some younger select AR assignments to try and gain experience, I get them. If fans simply consider that a ref can’t see everything every time, and chill out a bit we’d have a LOT more young referees willing to continue making some nice money working games. Do you get paid for scrimmages? This should be standard practice... if they built a few of these things (extra training / practice) into the system, everyone would benefit. |
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Post by rifle on Oct 26, 2019 21:47:14 GMT -5
I don’t know how the rest of the state (or country) does it but my local referee assignor is awesome. If I ask for some extra practice, I get offered scrimmages. If I ask for older rec game centers or some younger select AR assignments to try and gain experience, I get them. If fans simply consider that a ref can’t see everything every time, and chill out a bit we’d have a LOT more young referees willing to continue making some nice money working games. Do you get paid for scrimmages? This should be standard practice... if they built a few of these things (extra training / practice) into the system, everyone would benefit. Yep scrimmages were paid cash at the field |
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Post by atlsoccerdad on Oct 27, 2019 8:26:12 GMT -5
Here are the issues that came up so far, in case anyone is listening...
- Create minimum number of games for leagues. This includes 12-14 NL games (home / away games against every other team)
- make the leagues more competitive in general with less unnecessary out of state travel.
- move State Cup date and perhaps combine the Final against other leagues
- address issues with attracting / training / keeping referees
Any other suggestions for GA Soccer?
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Post by ga3v3 on Oct 27, 2019 10:55:31 GMT -5
I know many have gripes with GA Soccer (the governing body, not soccer played in Georgia), and recent events show that some changes are underway... What gripes do people have with the way things have been run? What ideas do people have to fix them in the future? I have a few: - Better season game scheduling and tournament organization
- Better referee oversight, training, and community outreach - (part of the referee problem is lack of GA Soccer visibility and referee oversight
Can anyone add to the list in case anyone from GA Soccer is watching?
At this point I think that GA Soccer is beyond fixing and it’s going to be a home for small to medium sized clubs across the state(the ones that don’t get taken over in the future by the big 5 that is). USYS/GA Soccer will most likely decline in numbers a bit further(when the big 5 move all of their select teams to USClub) and then more or less stabilize with their membership. There will be a constant pull for players/parents from the leagues outside USYS (DA,ECNL,NPL,SCCL) for various marketing reasons but it appears there will never be a pull for the players/parents the opposite way as there is really no advantage league-wise that USYS can offer There will always be an appeal of a smaller club with good coaching or teams for various reasons and if that is the best fit for players/parents than that will keep some or attract others but never in large numbers. I honestly believe after witnessing what has taken place over the past few years and the success of the big 5 with their new leagues and club acquisitions that everyone needs to read the writing on the wall- the days of GA Soccer attracting players, having highly competitive leagues, and influencing the youth soccer landscape in our state is over. I think it’s unfortunate in a lot of ways but it is what it is and there isn’t going to be any “fixing” going on that will be meaningful in any way |
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Post by footyfan on Oct 27, 2019 15:56:33 GMT -5
I know many have gripes with GA Soccer (the governing body, not soccer played in Georgia), and recent events show that some changes are underway... What gripes do people have with the way things have been run? What ideas do people have to fix them in the future? I have a few: - Better season game scheduling and tournament organization
- Better referee oversight, training, and community outreach - (part of the referee problem is lack of GA Soccer visibility and referee oversight
Can anyone add to the list in case anyone from GA Soccer is watching?
At this point I think that GA Soccer is beyond fixing and it’s going to be a home for small to medium sized clubs across the state(the ones that don’t get taken over in the future by the big 5 that is). USYS/GA Soccer will most likely decline in numbers a bit further(when the big 5 move all of their select teams to USClub) and then more or less stabilize with their membership. There will be a constant pull for players/parents from the leagues outside USYS (DA,ECNL,NPL,SCCL) for various marketing reasons but it appears there will never be a pull for the players/parents the opposite way as there is really no advantage league-wise that USYS can offer There will always be an appeal of a smaller club with good coaching or teams for various reasons and if that is the best fit for players/parents than that will keep some or attract others but never in large numbers. I honestly believe after witnessing what has taken place over the past few years and the success of the big 5 with their new leagues and club acquisitions that everyone needs to read the writing on the wall- the days of GA Soccer attracting players, having highly competitive leagues, and influencing the youth soccer landscape in our state is over. I think it’s unfortunate in a lot of ways but it is what it is and there isn’t going to be any “fixing” going on that will be meaningful in any way I'd imagine the SCCL/SCCL-P might lead to the re-birth of Georgia Soccer if Georgia Soccer listens to the customers(for once). |
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Post by rifle on Oct 27, 2019 16:51:25 GMT -5
Aren’t those leagues run by US Club?
To me it looks like US Club will takeover the State Association. Not exactly a Trojan horse..
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Post by atlfutboldad on Oct 27, 2019 18:08:01 GMT -5
The problem with the club-centric leagues is that there is very little room for growth. The leagues can only go SO deep and it's not like the member clubs will let one of the clubs have 2 teams in a league. So either those kids get pulled onto existing USCS teams/DA/DPL or they continue to play in GYSA with their current location but under the big club banner.
As for attracting kids away from USCS clubs/teams...the only possible draws are NL or possibly A/I with the prospect of NL or winning state cup. USYS is kinda screwing the NL draw up by merging Piedmont and Sunshine conferences and reducing it from 2 brackets to at most 14 teams between the 4 states...meaning less NL teams.
Maybe there's a better option under the USYS banner? Maybe using ODP, as in do something like have 2-3 ODP teams per state and have them play the other team(s) in their state as well as the other states more regularly? Keeping top kids at their local clubs but giving them the higher-level travel option plus the state team, region pool, region team, NTC, etc?
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Post by atlfutboldad on Oct 27, 2019 18:37:01 GMT -5
Another idea could be to create a state club-centric league and only promote to NL only from the club-centric league. Assuming GYSA gets 4 spots in the new NL piedmont format, the 2 clubs in the league with the highest average point totals get promoted to NL and the 2 clubs in the NL with the lowest average point totals get relegated back to the state league? Only 1 level, horizontally scaled to at most 3 brackets.
This means that a club would have to have a team at every age level. NL already schedules things pretty between the states nowadays so it's already similar to ECNL that way. All of the sudden GYSA is club-centric AND has a stronger draw than SCCL/SCCL-P. I'm pretty sure it would consolidate power a bit with the midsized clubs.
Small clubs without teams at every age group would still be able to play in a team-centric league, with a couple levels and less to play for (aside from state cup seeding).
On the girls side I think this would work well for IAFC, Roswell, Impact, CFC would be regulars in NL as usual. AFU and AFC would likely be competitive also.
The incentive of a team winning a bracket at a club that won't be a contender for NL might be an automatic bid to state cup semifinal round.
If this was done, I think you'd see even the big clubs try their damnedest to put the best possible team in this league as it'd be a better draw than SCCL. All the good stuff about SCCL, without any of the bad.
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Post by oldcoach on Oct 27, 2019 21:01:31 GMT -5
I think we’re too hung up on how things used to be and the state associations. I’m not sure we need state associations anymore except for maybe organizing regional rec leagues. The clubs can form and join leagues that make sense for their players based on their ability, commitment and travel expectations. If you look at u-13 Athena D this year, in addition to the Atlanta area clubs there are 2 Savannah area teams, a Columbus area team, a oconee team and a mountains team. So in what should be the lowest commitment level in select there is much more travel than SCCL or SCCL-P. Wouldn’t the Savannah teams be better served playing in a north Florida league and the Columbus team in an Alabama league? In the past maybe the state associations were needed because clubs were parent based and most coaches were parents also. Now do the leaders of clubs need the state leadership? Do Simon Davie or Dave Smith need Jacob Daniel? I like Jacob but I’m not sure how he helps the clubs leadership anymore.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Oct 27, 2019 21:18:56 GMT -5
Understood, it's more of "how to help USYS stay relevant" than fixing soccer in Georgia. Unless you generally have a problem with "haves and have-nots" soccer in the state.
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Post by footyfan on Oct 27, 2019 21:32:53 GMT -5
Aren’t those leagues run by US Club? To me it looks like US Club will takeover the State Association. Not exactly a Trojan horse.. My fault for a bad joke. My point was that those leagues are so bad, they may pave the way for other alternatives. That crossover weekend y'all. I wouldnt be surprised if I found out a middle school class president ran it. |
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Post by infoguy on Oct 28, 2019 6:19:18 GMT -5
Aren’t those leagues run by US Club? To me it looks like US Club will takeover the State Association. Not exactly a Trojan horse.. My fault for a bad joke. My point was that those leagues are so bad, they may pave the way for other alternatives. That crossover weekend y'all. I wouldnt be surprised if I found out a middle school class president ran it. Not sure which leagues you believe are bad, but overall I would say the administration by U.S. Club Soccer is excellent. There will be issues to deal with by individual clubs that over-protect their fields, etc. and flaky coaches that want to reschedule because they coach too many teams. I think U.S. Club has already taken over. I'm OK with DA + U.S. Club Soccer in GA. |
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Post by damonsta on Oct 28, 2019 6:48:26 GMT -5
I think we’re too hung up on how things used to be and the state associations. I’m not sure we need state associations anymore except for maybe organizing regional rec leagues. The clubs can form and join leagues that make sense for their players based on their ability, commitment and travel expectations. If you look at u-13 Athena D this year, in addition to the Atlanta area clubs there are 2 Savannah area teams, a Columbus area team, a oconee team and a mountains team. So in what should be the lowest commitment level in select there is much more travel than SCCL or SCCL-P. Wouldn’t the Savannah teams be better served playing in a north Florida league and the Columbus team in an Alabama league? In the past maybe the state associations were needed because clubs were parent based and most coaches were parents also. Now do the leaders of clubs need the state leadership? Do Simon Davie or Dave Smith need Jacob Daniel? I like Jacob but I’m not sure how he helps the clubs leadership anymore. As one of the Savannah clubs, it would be so much easier for us to do north Florida. That long drive on I-16 gets really old; and NL games in Raleigh are farther than even a drive to Orlando would be for us. We do have a local club, older brother of one of our players, who is in a north FL league. They have home games in Jekyll and away in Jacksonville which could save a lot of time and money. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Oct 28, 2019 7:55:39 GMT -5
Aren’t those leagues run by US Club? To me it looks like US Club will takeover the State Association. Not exactly a Trojan horse.. My fault for a bad joke. My point was that those leagues are so bad, they may pave the way for other alternatives. That crossover weekend y'all. I wouldnt be surprised if I found out a middle school class president ran it. I think you are talking about SCCL/SCCL-P. First hand experience there hasn't been many negatives of the league compared to the Classic/Athena leagues in fact more games, most games being played on turf where available, trainers and tents up just like DA. I would actually say the SCCL experience has been much better than GA soccer. That being said the crossover weekend was a debacle and it wasn't the rain, it was the lack of referees. So if they are going to plan an event like this next time they need to plan it a lot more in advance than they did this time. If that is the only issue we have had so far, that is not that big of a deal in the scheme of the whole league. |
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