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Post by soccermonster on Apr 23, 2020 9:30:38 GMT -5
...I do agree with that if Tophat doesn't get a seat at the table it is their own fault because of their arrogance. Unfortunately 99.9% of the people that make up the they of Tophat had no say in the arrogance you speak of. But they are all being screwed for it. Well said, the only people getting screwed are all of our girls from all the clubs and not just TH. |
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Post by mistergrinch on Apr 23, 2020 9:42:39 GMT -5
Historically, TH has simply recruited the best girls from other teams. For example, a couple of years ago there were 1/2 dozen Concorde girls who moved to TH in one age bracket. Because of this, many of the homegrown TH girls, took the back seat to players from Concorde, AFU, LSA, GSA and Santos. So is TH only exceptional as a result of recruiting top players from other teams? I truly believe TH has a good training program, but I also believe they have been at the top because they recruited top players from other clubs. With DA and ECNL, they will no longer be the destination club for girls, and all the other clubs with not only retain their top players they will also absorb top players from TH. To be fair.. take a look at the top teams at any of the big clubs around. How many of the those players started there?
I'd be willing to bet that on any given top team locally - less than half are 'home grown' players. Coaches like the shiny penny from somewhere else.. so they collect players because developing is hard.
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NTH
Apr 23, 2020 9:45:01 GMT -5
Post by hattrick07 on Apr 23, 2020 9:45:01 GMT -5
Historically, TH has simply recruited the best girls from other teams. For example, a couple of years ago there were 1/2 dozen Concorde girls who moved to TH in one age bracket. Because of this, many of the homegrown TH girls, took the back seat to players from Concorde, AFU, LSA, GSA and Santos. So is TH only exceptional as a result of recruiting top players from other teams? I truly believe TH has a good training program, but I also believe they have been at the top because they recruited top players from other clubs. With DA and ECNL, they will no longer be the destination club for girls, and all the other clubs with not only retain their top players they will also absorb top players from TH. To be fair.. take a look at the top teams at any of the big clubs around. How many of the those players started there?
I'd be willing to bet that on any given top team locally - less than half are 'home grown' players. Coaches like the shiny penny from somewhere else.. so they collect players because developing is hard.
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NTH
Apr 23, 2020 10:15:36 GMT -5
Post by hattrick07 on Apr 23, 2020 10:15:36 GMT -5
I definitely agree that coaches like shiny new pennies, but for many girls (and parents) TH has always been seen as 'the' premiere destination for top female players. With some clubs, there's a big gap in talent (especially between the ages 11-13)- so the more talented players have the choice to play up, or play at TH where the talent pool ran deep. From what I've noticed, TH has a collection of the best players from EVERY club, whereas other clubs, may pick up players from one or 2 clubs. This statement, by no means, is backed up by scientific facts - just my own observation.
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Post by oldtrafford on Apr 23, 2020 10:59:35 GMT -5
the reality is, any club will welcome top hat girls with open arms during tryouts. it's smart business. it dilutes the top hat talent pool / hurts top hat. a bit of turn about is fair play. to hattrick07's point, there's a talent gap at other clubs in certain age groups. top hat is deeper and have been training with and against other top players. it shows. they'll be welcomed additions at whatever club they go to for tryouts.
having said that, all of this will probably be moot. the top hat defections will likely be minimal. if gals has showcases to a similar level as ecnl, there's no reason to leave. and there will be a fear at top hat of, "if i leave and they get ecnl in a year, will they take us back?" lots of talk right now but usually very few act when push comes to shove.
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NTH
Apr 23, 2020 11:10:33 GMT -5
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 23, 2020 11:10:33 GMT -5
the reality is, any club will welcome top hat girls with open arms during tryouts. it's smart business. it dilutes the top hat talent pool / hurts top hat. a bit of turn about is fair play. to hattrick07's point, there's a talent gap at other clubs in certain age groups. top hat is deeper and have been training with and against other top players. it shows. they'll be welcomed additions at whatever club they go to for tryouts. having said that, all of this will probably be moot. the top hat defections will likely be minimal. if gals has showcases to a similar level as ecnl, there's no reason to leave. and there will be a fear at top hat of, "if i leave and they get ecnl in a year, will they take us back?" lots of talk right now but usually very few act when push comes to shove. I have heard the same. No one is leaving that wasn't planning on it prior to the demise of DA. I have heard 05, 04, 03 teams losing few to no players. As to fear...that is an unfortunate reality for all of us who have higher level kids or aspire to be on higher level teams. Will we be punished for our decisions? |
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NTH
Apr 23, 2020 11:16:12 GMT -5
Post by foosball31 on Apr 23, 2020 11:16:12 GMT -5
the reality is, any club will welcome top hat girls with open arms during tryouts. it's smart business. it dilutes the top hat talent pool / hurts top hat. a bit of turn about is fair play. to hattrick07's point, there's a talent gap at other clubs in certain age groups. top hat is deeper and have been training with and against other top players. it shows. they'll be welcomed additions at whatever club they go to for tryouts. having said that, all of this will probably be moot. the top hat defections will likely be minimal. if gals has showcases to a similar level as ecnl, there's no reason to leave. and there will be a fear at top hat of, "if i leave and they get ecnl in a year, will they take us back?" lots of talk right now but usually very few act when push comes to shove. But couldn't Tophat been considered the destination club for Girls, because it is the only club that put Girls as the focus? |
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NTH
Apr 23, 2020 11:35:02 GMT -5
Post by soccernoleuk on Apr 23, 2020 11:35:02 GMT -5
When people say "home grown", what exactly does that mean?
Is it a player that was at a club for all years of Academy (U8 - U12)?
Is it a player that was at the club for a minimum of their last Academy year (U12)?
Is it some other criteria?
I know some players that played at multiple clubs for Academy and are now on a top level team at one of those clubs. Which club would consider them "home grown"?
I also know of players that went to Tophat starting at U12 and have stayed there. Are they considered "home grown" to Tophat?
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Post by BubbleDad on Apr 23, 2020 11:36:59 GMT -5
I'm one of the families who was with NASA originally. My daughter played rec U8-11 and made the academy team in U12. The year she made academy, NTH was official. My cousin came up through Tophat U12-graduation, but before did ODP and was with Norcross (out of Pinkeyville Park). Her last year was the introduction of Tophat entering DA but she stayed ECNL (a lot at once but she was already committed to VA Tech).
I say this all to say my cousin had a generally highly productive experience with Ted and Troy. Trainings covered a gambit of things a lot of coaches don't cover (how to properly fall, plyometrics...).
My daughter is in the middle of the pack. Often ends up on the 3rd and 4th team due to technical inconsistencies. Since she's been in select, this is the first year I've actually heard the club say that they are planning to focus more on developing current NTH players and our coach is one of the better ones we've had at NTH. There was an sccl coach from last year who I don't think it's with the club anymore who had amazing practices.
One of my biggest frustrations in women's soccer is the lack of teaching girls how to properly head and slide tackle no matter what their position is. I know some coaches do this, but you can look at girls soccer and the instruction given to boys is totally different which is a shame.
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NTH
Apr 23, 2020 13:35:28 GMT -5
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Post by Goalkeeper Dad on Apr 23, 2020 13:35:28 GMT -5
Interesting question. If Tophat get 2 teams in GAL how does the coaching tree look? TG can't coach both, I am sure he would stay with the top team but Wouldnt that create a conflict of interest?
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Post by oldtrafford on Apr 23, 2020 13:37:30 GMT -5
foosball31 top hat is definitely a destination club for girls. the emphasis they put on promoting girls compared to concorde and others is noticeable. which frankly it should be.
i also think it's important to note on this thread that *everyone* starts somewhere else. i've seen plenty of good-to-great players leave a club, go elsewhere, and stall out. if top hat is recruiting players but they thrive there and develop further, who cares if they're home grown or not. would be interesting to hear from parents who left top hat feel at their new club. each situation is going to be different and who you get individually as a coach matters i'd think there are more families happier with the top hat product than the other way around.
i have no dog in this race either and don't care who is the best club. it'll be some other club in 10 years. speaking from years of observations here in atlanta and from product i see on the field, on the girl's side, it's inarguably top hat. there will always be exceptions in age groups or one off teams at other clubs. but otherwise that's why top hat is a destination. whether it's the destination you or more importantly your kid is looking for is all that matters.
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NTH
Apr 23, 2020 13:46:08 GMT -5
Post by soccerlegacy on Apr 23, 2020 13:46:08 GMT -5
foosball31 top hat is definitely a destination club for girls. the emphasis they put on promoting girls compared to concorde and others is noticeable. which frankly it should be. i also think it's important to note on this thread that *everyone* starts somewhere else. i've seen plenty of good-to-great players leave a club, go elsewhere, and stall out. if top hat is recruiting players but they thrive there and develop further, who cares if they're home grown or not. would be interesting to hear from parents who left top hat feel at their new club. each situation is going to be different and who you get individually as a coach matters i'd think there are more families happier with the top hat product than the other way around. i have no dog in this race either and don't care who is the best club. it'll be some other club in 10 years. speaking from years of observations here in atlanta and from product i see on the field, on the girl's side, it's inarguably top hat. there will always be exceptions in age groups or one off teams at other clubs. but otherwise that's why top hat is a destination. whether it's the destination you or more importantly your kid is looking for is all that matters. That's actually the big question right now. Will it STILL be THE destination club if they aren't given a spot at the table with ECNL? I agree with much of what you said, up until this point in time. |
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NTH
Apr 23, 2020 14:13:08 GMT -5
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Post by ball2futbol on Apr 23, 2020 14:13:08 GMT -5
If what’s rumored is true, it's shortsighted to believe that if TH offers their top 3 teams across each appropriate age group national exposure as members of GAL/DPL will cause some mad exodus to other clubs.
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NTH
Apr 23, 2020 15:04:23 GMT -5
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Post by girlsoccer on Apr 23, 2020 15:04:23 GMT -5
This forum - in particular this thread - should be a study in human behavior. again, just posting observations and encouraging deeper thought. it is interesting to read about all of the disappointment and downright shock from fellow NTH parents about ECNL not offering a spot to NTH. given that each NTH parent has done his/her own due diligence on the coaches directly involved with his/her daughter - asked parents from former clubs about the coach/searched for arrest records/asked parents at current club about the coach/had your daughter reach out to players who have been coached by coach/etc.... since all of that due diligence certainly took place by the parents, then you must be in agreement with the hiring practices of the director of coaching and the board of directors, especially since the director of coaching and board of directors has allowed some very questionable coaches to be hired and promoted within the club. therefore, it cannot be a huge shock when other organizations like ECNL do not bend over backwards for NTH and the apparent egos/baggage that comes with the club. you didn't do any due diligence and merely relied on the NTH's hiring practices? then NTH not getting invited to ECNL - which appears to some degree may be as a result of the attitude NTH portrayed to ECNL over the years- may come as a shock. However, you chose to blindly follow NTH; thus you are now apart of their consequences. for those NTH parents that voiced concerns about the leadership/management/coaches/etc....the floor is all yours. for the others, start asking questions for yourself or just slap on your NTH gear along with your hypocrite cloak. The Board has no influence over coaching hiring/firing decisions or who coaches which teams. Those decisions are appropriately left up to the director/administrative team. Pretty sure I know who interestedobserver is and I understand why they have an axe to grind with NTH. But seems a bit unfair to imply that the parents and kids who didn’t do a detailed background check on their coach essentially deserve what they get. I think you knew/know plenty of NTH parents who are good people and kids who just want to play soccer. Take a step back and rethink your approach. |
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NTH
Apr 23, 2020 15:10:27 GMT -5
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Post by cleansheet on Apr 23, 2020 15:10:27 GMT -5
This forum - in particular this thread - should be a study in human behavior. again, just posting observations and encouraging deeper thought. it is interesting to read about all of the disappointment and downright shock from fellow NTH parents about ECNL not offering a spot to NTH. given that each NTH parent has done his/her own due diligence on the coaches directly involved with his/her daughter - asked parents from former clubs about the coach/searched for arrest records/asked parents at current club about the coach/had your daughter reach out to players who have been coached by coach/etc.... since all of that due diligence certainly took place by the parents, then you must be in agreement with the hiring practices of the director of coaching and the board of directors, especially since the director of coaching and board of directors has allowed some very questionable coaches to be hired and promoted within the club. therefore, it cannot be a huge shock when other organizations like ECNL do not bend over backwards for NTH and the apparent egos/baggage that comes with the club. you didn't do any due diligence and merely relied on the NTH's hiring practices? then NTH not getting invited to ECNL - which appears to some degree may be as a result of the attitude NTH portrayed to ECNL over the years- may come as a shock. However, you chose to blindly follow NTH; thus you are now apart of their consequences. for those NTH parents that voiced concerns about the leadership/management/coaches/etc....the floor is all yours. for the others, start asking questions for yourself or just slap on your NTH gear along with your hypocrite cloak. The Board has no influence over coaching hiring/firing decisions or who coaches which teams. Those decisions are appropriately left up to the director/administrative team. Pretty sure I know who interestedobserver is and I understand why they have an axe to grind with NTH. But seems a bit unfair to imply that the parents and kids who didn’t do a detailed background check on their coach essentially deserve what they get. I think you knew/know plenty of NTH parents who are good people and kids who just want to play soccer. Take a step back and rethink your approach. More added: BREAKING NEWS | 🚨: We are excited to announce the addition of @pennfusion_sa , @pipelinesoccerclub and @pdagirlssoccer South for the 2020-21 ECNL Girls season! To read the full release, click here: bit.ly/350AYrC |
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NTH
Apr 23, 2020 15:39:49 GMT -5
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Post by footyfan on Apr 23, 2020 15:39:49 GMT -5
The above ECNL info is on the ECNL thread
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Post by atlfutboldad on Apr 23, 2020 15:48:00 GMT -5
I don't think that anyone is implying the players at TH deserve this. They simply want to play with the best against the best, no one can fault that.
Just pontificating/spitballing here...if ECNL implied that if NTH to let go of a certain person to immediately join the league...would they? (The proverbial sacrificial lamb if you will)
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NTH
Apr 23, 2020 16:07:54 GMT -5
Post by Goalkeeper Dad on Apr 23, 2020 16:07:54 GMT -5
I don't think that anyone is implying the players at TH deserve this. They simply want to play with the best against the best, no one can fault that. Just pontificating/spitballing here...if ECNL implied that if NTH to let go of a certain person to immediately join the league...would they? (The proverbial sacrificial lamb if you will) The only problem with that I think Lamb had a lot to do with getting them to a higher level? |
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NTH
Apr 23, 2020 16:12:58 GMT -5
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Post by atlfutboldad on Apr 23, 2020 16:12:58 GMT -5
That's why I was asking. The alternative could be worse. But maybe it wouldn't take that. Maybe NTH gets ECNL next year regardless.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 23, 2020 16:21:16 GMT -5
That's why I was asking. The alternative could be worse. But maybe it wouldn't take that. Maybe NTH gets ECNL next year regardless. I think everyone is assuming that GAL will be thought of poorly by colleges, players, parents etc. I am not so sure. The GAL clubs looked pretty strong overall. Yes the southeast might not be a power, but it isn't bad. Those clubs in it aren't slouches. The travel is heavier than southeast ECNL, but not really any heavier than DA was. Many of us gave DA cred based on the fact that USSF started it and they had the boys side as the top league for a while, but many DA clubs are going into GAL so how bad can it be? If I had a kid in one of the 4 Cali teams that were put into ECRL I would be switching to and ECNL or GAL club. I think the GAL will be better than NPL and NL and ECRL overall. Of course exceptions will occur, but it doesn't look so bad to me. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Apr 23, 2020 17:54:52 GMT -5
One way TH became a destination club was to create a superior product at U9 through U11 (under TC and company). When other academy teams played TH, the parents of the best players on the opposing team were attracted to the style of play and technical ability, and began thinking about heading to Buckhead come tryout time. While many girls are definitely recruited, many others just show up looking to join a better team and development environment.
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NTH
Apr 23, 2020 19:48:00 GMT -5
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Post by collegesoccer on Apr 23, 2020 19:48:00 GMT -5
One way TH became a destination club was to create a superior product at U9 through U11 (under TC and company). When other academy teams played TH, the parents of the best players on the opposing team were attracted to the style of play and technical ability, and began thinking about heading to Buckhead come tryout time. While many girls are definitely recruited, many others just show up looking to join a better team and development environment. This is true for many TH parents and players. |
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NTH
Apr 23, 2020 21:08:45 GMT -5
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shaka likes this
Post by rifle on Apr 23, 2020 21:08:45 GMT -5
One way TH became a destination club was to create a superior product at U9 through U11 (under TC and company). When other academy teams played TH, the parents of the best players on the opposing team were attracted to the style of play and technical ability, and began thinking about heading to Buckhead come tryout time. While many girls are definitely recruited, many others just show up looking to join a better team and development environment. Of course. “Recruiting” fallacy. Sell a good product and people buy it. |
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NTH
Apr 23, 2020 22:17:38 GMT -5
Post by soccerloafer on Apr 23, 2020 22:17:38 GMT -5
One way TH became a destination club was to create a superior product at U9 through U11 (under TC and company). When other academy teams played TH, the parents of the best players on the opposing team were attracted to the style of play and technical ability, and began thinking about heading to Buckhead come tryout time. While many girls are definitely recruited, many others just show up looking to join a better team and development environment. This is true for many TH parents and players. In all fairness, that's how we got there back in the day... Recruiting didn't seem to start in earnest until U14 or so. Most of the U10 to U13 arrivals were just attracted. |
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NTH
Apr 24, 2020 21:36:50 GMT -5
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Post by collegesoccer on Apr 24, 2020 21:36:50 GMT -5
If TH does go to GAL, the league is going to be strong - picking up most of the DA clubs. MidAmerica Conference announced on social media tonight.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Apr 24, 2020 22:50:22 GMT -5
There will be many great players in GAL, but for colleges, its a logistical issue. 75% of the players you're most interested in are in are in one league/league showcases. As long as the perception at NTH remains, colleges will scout their teams.
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NTH
Apr 25, 2020 11:33:50 GMT -5
Post by soccergurl on Apr 25, 2020 11:33:50 GMT -5
This forum - in particular this thread - should be a study in human behavior. again, just posting observations and encouraging deeper thought. it is interesting to read about all of the disappointment and downright shock from fellow NTH parents about ECNL not offering a spot to NTH. given that each NTH parent has done his/her own due diligence on the coaches directly involved with his/her daughter - asked parents from former clubs about the coach/searched for arrest records/asked parents at current club about the coach/had your daughter reach out to players who have been coached by coach/etc.... since all of that due diligence certainly took place by the parents, then you must be in agreement with the hiring practices of the director of coaching and the board of directors, especially since the director of coaching and board of directors has allowed some very questionable coaches to be hired and promoted within the club. therefore, it cannot be a huge shock when other organizations like ECNL do not bend over backwards for NTH and the apparent egos/baggage that comes with the club. you didn't do any due diligence and merely relied on the NTH's hiring practices? then NTH not getting invited to ECNL - which appears to some degree may be as a result of the attitude NTH portrayed to ECNL over the years- may come as a shock. However, you chose to blindly follow NTH; thus you are now apart of their consequences. for those NTH parents that voiced concerns about the leadership/management/coaches/etc....the floor is all yours. for the others, start asking questions for yourself or just slap on your NTH gear along with your hypocrite cloak. The Board has no influence over coaching hiring/firing decisions or who coaches which teams. Those decisions are appropriately left up to the director/administrative team. Pretty sure I know who interestedobserver is and I understand why they have an axe to grind with NTH. But seems a bit unfair to imply that the parents and kids who didn’t do a detailed background check on their coach essentially deserve what they get. I think you knew/know plenty of NTH parents who are good people and kids who just want to play soccer. Take a step back and rethink your approach. his only me butt why you say wat u say and everyborri say u jealous u no happy u have axe with club nth his good club but for me child she play good and she come for top division but now th his no have top division so she wan go to ecnl i no jelous of th he just no work no more for me child but i wait till may so we see if the th she go to ecnl |
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NTH
Apr 25, 2020 12:43:31 GMT -5
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Post by Goalkeeper Dad on Apr 25, 2020 12:43:31 GMT -5
The Board has no influence over coaching hiring/firing decisions or who coaches which teams. Those decisions are appropriately left up to the director/administrative team. Pretty sure I know who interestedobserver is and I understand why they have an axe to grind with NTH. But seems a bit unfair to imply that the parents and kids who didn’t do a detailed background check on their coach essentially deserve what they get. I think you knew/know plenty of NTH parents who are good people and kids who just want to play soccer. Take a step back and rethink your approach. his only me butt why you say wat u say and everyborri say u jealous u no happy u have axe with club nth his good club but for me child she play good and she come for top division but now th his no have top division so she wan go to ecnl i no jelous of th he just no work no more for me child but i wait till may so we see if the th she go to ecnl .i really wish I could understand what you are trying to say in this post and past post Is it just me? |
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Post by soccermaxx72 on Apr 25, 2020 12:59:14 GMT -5
his only me butt why you say wat u say and everyborri say u jealous u no happy u have axe with club nth his good club but for me child she play good and she come for top division but now th his no have top division so she wan go to ecnl i no jelous of th he just no work no more for me child but i wait till may so we see if the th she go to ecnl .i really wish I could understand what you are trying to say in this post and past post Is it just me? Just skip those posts, that’s what I do, lol |
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shaka
Jr. Academy
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Post by shaka on Apr 25, 2020 13:24:11 GMT -5
.i really wish I could understand what you are trying to say in this post and past post Is it just me? Just skip those posts, that’s what I do, lol Same here. Don't have time to try to sort through gibberish. She may have something pertinent - don't have the desire to try to figure it out. Speak so people can understand. Otherwise you're wasting your time (and no one else's cuz they're not paying attention to you :-)) |
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