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Post by hotspur1 on Jun 30, 2021 20:48:15 GMT -5
And they do this by paying the men more since it drives more revenue. Not sure the argument you are making footy. Charitable organizations and non profits are still businesses. They must increase revenue to stay operational. I think the point is that their mission is to promote the sport. The women's team and having girls play the sport will help make it the preeminent sport. Money spent on the women helps promote the sport which is part of the mission. It is not about World Cup money which the men did not qualify for so is pretty irrelevant. It is about exposing more people to the sport so they will watch it. Midge Purce made a great statement about investing in women's sports. You have to lay out the cash initially if you want it to succeed. She said it very eloquently and it makes sense. My daughter plays college soccer. I am all for more support for women. But reality is that women’s soccer does not bring in enough money to support the organization, doesn’t come close on a global level, and probably never would regardless of the financial backing. I don’t like it but it’s reality. Edit to add this analogy. The Univ of Georgia is a non profit. As a non profit should they spend as much on their baseball team as they do on football? After all by spending more they could drive more interest and success. Simple answer is no. Investing more in their football program allows them to fund all of the other sports. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jun 30, 2021 21:03:00 GMT -5
I think the point is that their mission is to promote the sport. The women's team and having girls play the sport will help make it the preeminent sport. Money spent on the women helps promote the sport which is part of the mission. It is not about World Cup money which the men did not qualify for so is pretty irrelevant. It is about exposing more people to the sport so they will watch it. Midge Purce made a great statement about investing in women's sports. You have to lay out the cash initially if you want it to succeed. She said it very eloquently and it makes sense. My daughter plays college soccer. I am all for more support for women. But reality is that women’s soccer does not bring in enough money to support the organization, doesn’t come close on a global level, and probably never would regardless of the financial backing. I don’t like it but it’s reality. Edit to add this analogy. The Univ of Georgia is a non profit. As a non profit should they spend as much on their baseball team as they do on football? After all by spending more they could drive more interest and success. Simple answer is no. Investing more in their football program allows them to fund all of the other sports. I am not arguing the payment structure or the CBA. I am not arguing the women's game on the world stage. But I will argue that in the United States if equal exposure and money was put into the USWNT that they would bring in more money than the USMNT. Until the men start actually winning things and playing well against strong opponents I think the USWNT is better entertainment. |
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Post by papacoach on Jul 1, 2021 0:13:29 GMT -5
Only IF right?
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Post by papacoach on Jul 1, 2021 0:23:17 GMT -5
Beyond the World Cup and summer Olympics, is there interest in the National team anyways on odd years? why doesn’t the women have the same age restrictions as the men’s?
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Post by roki12 on Jul 1, 2021 5:44:08 GMT -5
Watch LFG on Netflix. At least for me, reaffirmed what all these players are doing for all the girls coming behind fhem.
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Post by atv on Jul 1, 2021 8:13:15 GMT -5
Doing what? Was the current contract not negotiated through a collective bargaining agreement? Are the women currently being paid more than the men? Are the FIFA bonuses determined by FIFA and not US Soccer? I need to watch the documentary because I am so confused. I believe I’m doing a pretty good job keeping up with the issue but I guess I’m missing something here?  |
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Post by footyfan on Jul 1, 2021 8:18:44 GMT -5
And they do this by paying the men more since it drives more revenue. Not sure the argument you are making footy. Charitable organizations and non profits are still businesses. They must increase revenue to stay operational. I think the point is that their mission is to promote the sport. The women's team and having girls play the sport will help make it the preeminent sport. Money spent on the women helps promote the sport which is part of the mission. It is not about World Cup money which the men did not qualify for so is pretty irrelevant. It is about exposing more people to the sport so they will watch it. Midge Purce made a great statement about investing in women's sports. You have to lay out the cash initially if you want it to succeed. She said it very eloquently and it makes sense. Also, that adherence to mission statements are more important than increasing revenues for 501c3 corporations. If you are more concerned about revenue growth, you shouldn't be a not-for-profit charity; and likely won't be for long; and then will have to start paying taxes. Which is a big deal if you are charity with 2019 revenues of $138M. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jul 1, 2021 8:36:07 GMT -5
Do the revenues not set the following year's budgets? I understand a nonprofit is not supposed to generate revenue, but if they don't how in the hell to they plan and forecast for the following year? If they have $1M in revenue can they do the same things/events they would if they have $138M in revenue?
It all goes back to the CBA however. Sign a contract, live by the contract. USSF should flatly refuse to do the security-based CBA in the future, instead, giving the men and women the EXACT SAME CBA.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 1, 2021 12:31:02 GMT -5
Do the revenues not set the following year's budgets? I understand a nonprofit is not supposed to generate revenue, but if they don't how in the hell to they plan and forecast for the following year? If they have $1M in revenue can they do the same things/events they would if they have $138M in revenue? It all goes back to the CBA however. Sign a contract, live by the contract. USSF should flatly refuse to do the security-based CBA in the future, instead, giving the men and women the EXACT SAME CBA. The thing about contracts in sports is that they seem to be a little less binding than in the business world. People who have a contract and the clubs/teams and schools don't really honor them. Plus they renegotiate all of the time prior to contracts ending. So pretty much no one signs a contract and then lives by it. |
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Post by papacoach on Jul 1, 2021 13:13:33 GMT -5
Yes.. want to be treated equal on the same pay scale, simple..generate the same global interest in revenue, play unisex soccer, play by the same contract terms which is zero guarantee salaries like the women get and men don’t, play to the same age constraints which is age and play for pay..
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 1, 2021 13:37:37 GMT -5
What are these age constraints people are talking about for the national team? I am missing something.
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Post by ball2futbol on Jul 1, 2021 13:46:27 GMT -5
Contracts in sports and the business world are re-negotiated all the time! Coaches at every level negotiate new deals while the current contract is still binding. I re-negotiate contracts all the time in my business and most career professionals do as well. How many people have re-negotiated their mortgages over the past 18mos? Maybe the underlying issue for some is who's doing the asking. papacoach I get you keep coming back to the same well to prove some overstated point. But you are using data questionable data at that, from a questionable source. Then throwing around discrepancies over percentages of shared revenue, as if ALL other things are equal, which they are not. And everyone else on this thread seems to be pretty clear on those differences except for you. I don't think anyone's questioning global interest or the revenue generated by USMNT vs USWNT. But to claim they are out of bounds by attempting to re-negotiate terms of said contract, especially when market value and market conditions have significantly changed, is laughable. |
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Post by fridge on Jul 1, 2021 14:33:49 GMT -5
Contracts in sports and the business world are re-negotiated all the time! Coaches at every level negotiate new deals while the current contract is still binding. I re-negotiate contracts all the time in my business and most career professionals do as well. How many people have re-negotiated their mortgages over the past 18mos? Maybe the underlying issue for some is who's doing the asking. papacoach I get you keep coming back to the same well to prove some overstated point. But you are using data questionable data at that, from a questionable source. Then throwing around discrepancies over percentages of shared revenue, as if ALL other things are equal, which they are not. And everyone else on this thread seems to be pretty clear on those differences except for you. I don't think anyone's questioning global interest or the revenue generated by USMNT vs USWNT. But to claim they are out of bounds by attempting to re-negotiate terms of said contract, especially when market value and market conditions have significantly changed, is laughable. They have a CBA. That is different than re-negotiating one off deals that perhaps you do all the time. Regardless, they opted to sue. I am pretty sure with the federations new leadership (including an-ex player as the head) have been begging the USWNT to get a deal done. But the USWNT players are unfortunately either completely unreasonable, crazy and/or entitled or all 3. (My college daughter actually read the federal court order expecting the decision to be BS and came away saying, "The USWNT players are crazy!") As for the "questionable numbers" from "questionable sources" head fake of the apologists, if TV rights alone are 6 BILLION v. 135,000,000, I don't need to see a spreadsheet to realize the woman can't come even close to being paid the same as men. I LOVE woman's soccer. LOVE it. But you have to be a realist. The woman just don't drive the same revenue. |
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Post by papacoach on Jul 1, 2021 15:37:16 GMT -5
If the same well works, why not use it over and over again? facts don’t care about your feelings and a Judge has already ruled on the merits of the case and the women lost on equal pay. Want the same pay, generate a greater revenue interest and lower the bonus payout % so it’s even across the board since it’s uneven favoring the women..
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Post by ball2futbol on Jul 1, 2021 15:40:38 GMT -5
As expressed by many others, the math lesson isn't needed. But I can tell you, if the "Collective" group agree to re-negotiate a (CBA), what makes you think it's any different than another contract?
None of us can truly speak to how reasonable they are or are not being. But weather or not the USWNT get a whole or fraction of what they're asking for is the basis of a negotiation process. Which in the end won't be decided or influenced in a federal court room, rather the court of public opinion... hence why this is actually a topic. Right now you have a group of women "collectively" willing to push back. Who are we to say 10-15yrs from now in particular in THIS country, that US women's soccer won't surpass men? I know, I wouldn't bet against them. Maybe they envision something right now us dinosaurs can't.
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Post by papacoach on Jul 1, 2021 15:46:33 GMT -5
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Post by papacoach on Jul 1, 2021 16:00:09 GMT -5
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Post by papacoach on Jul 1, 2021 16:02:06 GMT -5
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Post by atv on Jul 1, 2021 16:21:41 GMT -5
I believe with a CBA, which is a contact between a union and employer, there are rules set up for how disputes are to be resolved. Regardless, I haven’t read anything to indicate the women have a compelling position from a legal opinion. However, with the latest movie and possibly other high publicity “stunts” leading up to the Olympics, the obvious goal is to influence public opinion … for negotiation purposes to be leveraged in these CBA resolution sessions. Influencing public opinion won’t influence a court verdict, if it comes to that but it will put pressure on US Soccer which doesn’t have the best image right know. I’m disappointed in the number of high profile politicians that have jumped on the band wagon and weighed in on this without considering the facts. I for one will not be screaming “sex discrimination”. (Wage discrimination). Allegations, like these, should be brought forward with the highest level of honesty and integrity.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jul 1, 2021 17:23:21 GMT -5
The women should get punitive compensation for playing at worse facilities as well as getting worse hotel and flight accommodations...that's simply unacceptable, regardless of revenues. Additionally USSF should be on the hook for the enforcing same conditions going forward.
IMO that's about all the leg they have to stand on.
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Post by hotspur1 on Jul 1, 2021 20:11:16 GMT -5
The women should get punitive compensation for playing at worse facilities as well as getting worse hotel and flight accommodations...that's simply unacceptable, regardless of revenues. Additionally USSF should be on the hook for the enforcing same conditions going forward. IMO that's about all the leg they have to stand on. This is the best response in the thread. I 100% agree and the fact that the lawyers haven’t made this play is crazy to me. |
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Post by mightydawg on Jul 1, 2021 21:39:16 GMT -5
The women should get punitive compensation for playing at worse facilities as well as getting worse hotel and flight accommodations...that's simply unacceptable, regardless of revenues. Additionally USSF should be on the hook for the enforcing same conditions going forward. IMO that's about all the leg they have to stand on. This is the best response in the thread. I 100% agree and the fact that the lawyers haven’t made this play is crazy to me. This was raised and has been settled by the parties. |
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Post by atv on Jul 2, 2021 5:46:10 GMT -5
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Post by papacoach on Jul 2, 2021 8:46:43 GMT -5
Provide examples for lodging, travel and field differences but that part of the lawsuit was settled and the additional operational costs will be coming from where to offset?? Hmm.. it’s not like the women were staying in motel 6s and taking broken down buses like minor league baseball teams do..
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Post by fridge on Jul 2, 2021 10:32:45 GMT -5
Even the headline "US Woman suffer setback in fight for equal pay" is misleading. Headline should be "Court rules US Woman's claims of unequal pay meritless." (I also did the new headline in 9 words so there is no issue about "space" of the headline.) Trust me, when the liberal 9th circuit finds a way to overturn this, the headline will be "9th Circuit Rules US Woman Discriminated Against With Unequal Pay" and not, "Federation suffers setback on proof of US Woman equal pay claim." |
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Post by paterfamilias on Jul 3, 2021 19:27:15 GMT -5
Economics always matter when money is being exchanged.
Yes the previous thread regarding this happened during the summertime.
It was deleted by a moderator.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jul 5, 2021 17:05:34 GMT -5
First Half in the books against Mexico and the USWNT are already up 4 zip...
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Post by papacoach on Jul 6, 2021 0:26:32 GMT -5
Wow.. beating up on mexico .. soo impressive
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jul 6, 2021 7:48:09 GMT -5
Wow.. beating up on mexico .. soo impressive You play who's in front of you. Not sure what you're on about, but we all know the USWNT does not shy away from playing the best of the best. I mean Brazil is a top 10, maybe even a top 5 and they trounced them just as easily earlier this year. So to me, it is impressive that they continue to put their heads down, work hard to deliver and just keep churning out win after win especially considering they are on everyone's radar domestically and internationally. The least we can do is support them when they trounce our rivals on the men's side since the USMNT tend to "struggle" with El Tri... p.s. I believe the Women's Mexico team is ranked in the 20s... |
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Post by mightydawg on Jul 6, 2021 9:36:13 GMT -5
USWNT has been impressive in their tune up matches and should be applauded. Whether you agree with the pay lawsuit or not, they deserve to be praised for their on field results.
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