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Post by chrissoccer11 on Feb 27, 2022 14:56:36 GMT -5
My daughter is looking to possibly change clubs next year. The question for us is Concorde vs Tophat? GA vs ECNL? She wants to play in college. I just need some guidance….thank you.
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fgug
Jr. Academy
Posts: 68
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Post by fgug on Feb 27, 2022 16:09:31 GMT -5
What age?
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Post by chrissoccer11 on Feb 27, 2022 16:28:45 GMT -5
16
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Post by bolo on Feb 28, 2022 9:11:49 GMT -5
CF Platinum and Tophat Gold are very good, established teams in U16 especially and even U17 age groups depending where your daughter falls.. Your player would need to be very good. CF Premier and Tophat Navy would both be equally good second team options. Both clubs are good in this age group. Both clubs are well-known to colleges. No real best or worst choice. Your kid can easily get to college from both if she is good enough to make first or second teams. Agree with this. At the higher ages, it can be extremely difficult to break into the top teams at both Concorde & Tophat. Now, if your daughter is an absolute stud no-brainer D-1 recruit, she might not have that issue, but those teams don't typically have a lot of open spots that aren't already filled before they even open by players that the coaches have targeted. Best plan is probably to reach out to the clubs and/or coaches of the top teams her age directly and try to get an audience with them. |
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Post by soccerlegacy on Mar 8, 2022 10:37:24 GMT -5
Would this make her an '06 or an '05?? After the age mandate, I can no longer tell with the actual age of the player, what team she would be on... |
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Post by 04gparent on Mar 8, 2022 12:40:36 GMT -5
Neither. Our child has had bad experiences at both. Parents have entirely too much influence (wading into the waters of flat out corruption in some cases) at both clubs. In our experience the staff and leadership at GSA was the most fair, honest, and honorable. If your kid can play and works hard at GSA, they will get the playing time and accolades they deserve, no matter your family status or income. We don’t have any experience at UFA so I can’t speak to the merits of that club. But I find both Concorde and Tophat to have some extremely problematic and disturbing practices. Tophat is a all girls club and they don’t even have a woman on the board. That’s crazy…. Wow... I'm going to call BS right here at least at TH. I've been on this board for a long time, one thing I have rarely if ever heard of is that parents have influence or control at TH. I know people who have left TH because they didnt have control or the ability to influence roster decisions (Gold,Navy). You can say a lot of negative things about TH, but parental influence over roster decisions is not one of em. I dont know about CF so I will not touch that one. To the original poster I agree with alot of the feeback on this site. As soon as the rules allow reach out to the clubs. Find out when they're practicing and come watch. Do your research. Top teams at all the ecnl / ga clubs will be hard to make but not impossible. I would say though try to plan for this to be the last move. You will need the headcoach of whatever team you choose to be her advocate in recruiting... I hope she is a 2006 so that you have a little more time recruiting wise than the 05s. Good luck to you and your daughter. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 8, 2022 13:02:24 GMT -5
Agree with this. At the higher ages, it can be extremely difficult to break into the top teams at both Concorde & Tophat. Now, if your daughter is an absolute stud no-brainer D-1 recruit, she might not have that issue, but those teams don't typically have a lot of open spots that aren't already filled before they even open by players that the coaches have targeted. Best plan is probably to reach out to the clubs and/or coaches of the top teams her age directly and try to get an audience with them. I would argue that the second team options at Tophat and Concorde are not good options. College coaches, especially DI coaches are not recruiting from those teams. Some of the girls from the top teams at those clubs are still only going DIII. But I have seen girls from AFU even go to decent DI programs. Depending on the D3 program that can be better than D1 or D2 for an individual. Often better academics. D1 College coaches do recruit from second teams at GA and ECNL clubs (or third teams if you are PDA) though definitely not as much as from the top teams. Depending on age group at CF the two teams are pretty close anyway (05 is). I am going to say my favorite statement. Go to whichever club has a coach that your kid meshes with. Plus some coaches don't do anything to help their players in recruiting even at TH and CF. Just saying. Choose wisely. |
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Post by soccernoleuk on Mar 8, 2022 13:18:35 GMT -5
Neither. Our child has had bad experiences at both. Parents have entirely too much influence (wading into the waters of flat out corruption in some cases) at both clubs. In our experience the staff and leadership at GSA was the most fair, honest, and honorable. If your kid can play and works hard at GSA, they will get the playing time and accolades they deserve, no matter your family status or income. We don’t have any experience at UFA so I can’t speak to the merits of that club. But I find both Concorde and Tophat to have some extremely problematic and disturbing practices. Tophat is a all girls club and they don’t even have a woman on the board. That’s crazy…. OK, I just got back up off the floor after falling out of my chair laughing so hard. I have so many stories that contradict what you have said here I could probably write a book. If your kid is considered the top half of their age group, yes GSA will bend over backwards to make you happy. Otherwise you are expendable. As for other clubs, as it has been said here by many, it all depends on the coach your child has. If you are a top team player at Concorde, Tophat, UFA, GSA, AFU, you can go to college and lay soccer. While AFU might not have the best overall teams, they do have a Recruiting Director. He knows just about everyone and is a great resource for opening doors. Just the names of Tophat & Concorde help open doors. The bottom line is, look around, try to find out who the coach is going to be, ask questions and educate yourself on what each club is actually offering. Then make the best decision for your family. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 8, 2022 16:39:25 GMT -5
OK, I just got back up off the floor after falling out of my chair laughing so hard. I have so many stories that contradict what you have said here I could probably write a book. If your kid is considered the top half of their age group, yes GSA will bend over backwards to make you happy. Otherwise you are expendable. As for other clubs, as it has been said here by many, it all depends on the coach your child has. If you are a top team player at Concorde, Tophat, UFA, GSA, AFU, you can go to college and lay soccer. While AFU might not have the best overall teams, they do have a Recruiting Director. He knows just about everyone and is a great resource for opening doors. Just the names of Tophat & Concorde help open doors. The bottom line is, look around, try to find out who the coach is going to be, ask questions and educate yourself on what each club is actually offering. Then make the best decision for your family. Gee. Silly ole me to think fairness should make me “happy”. Your comment speaks to my point exactly…To the original poster: do you really want to go to a club where fairness and merit are laughable concepts? I think the best point to be made here between your statement and the contradictory one is that everyone has a different experience. Even at the same club we have had different experiences year to year and from kid to kid. No one club is perfect for all players or even good for all players. Even when you do your research you can get screwed. People change. |
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Post by soccernoleuk on Mar 8, 2022 17:30:50 GMT -5
OK, I just got back up off the floor after falling out of my chair laughing so hard. I have so many stories that contradict what you have said here I could probably write a book. If your kid is considered the top half of their age group, yes GSA will bend over backwards to make you happy. Otherwise you are expendable. As for other clubs, as it has been said here by many, it all depends on the coach your child has. If you are a top team player at Concorde, Tophat, UFA, GSA, AFU, you can go to college and lay soccer. While AFU might not have the best overall teams, they do have a Recruiting Director. He knows just about everyone and is a great resource for opening doors. Just the names of Tophat & Concorde help open doors. The bottom line is, look around, try to find out who the coach is going to be, ask questions and educate yourself on what each club is actually offering. Then make the best decision for your family. Gee. Silly ole me to think fairness should make me “happy”. Your comment speaks to my point exactly…To the original poster: do you really want to go to a club where fairness and merit are laughable concepts? However, I personally have never felt we were treated fairly, honestly or honorably at that club. I also have seen numerous times there where families were lied to (not just our family). I have also seen where players were offered ECNL places because of who their parents are, or what their parents could do for directors / coaches. It's possible it happens elsewhere, but from my experiences I have only seen it at that club. Thus when I read your comment about how fair, honest and honorable they are, I couldn't help but laugh. Fortunately we have had other opportunities and are very happy to be where we are. |
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Mar 8, 2022 18:32:45 GMT -5
atlien LMAO. You couldn't be more wrong re: soccernoleuk - he is a parent and his kid played at GSA in the past.
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Post by rudy on Mar 8, 2022 19:45:48 GMT -5
Wanted to express my two cents worth. We had a great experience at GSA on the top team. Many college offers including D1.6
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Post by soccerloafer on Mar 8, 2022 19:58:32 GMT -5
Any club will screw any kid / family any time for any reason. That's how it works. My kids played at 4 of the big clubs over their careers (please don't call us club hoppers, not all changes by choice, and you do what's best for each kid). Some years they were on top, some years at the end of the bench ready to be replaced, without much rhyme or reason. The ride is different for everyone, but don't be surprised at anything.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 8, 2022 20:58:07 GMT -5
I think the best point to be made here between your statement and the contradictory one is that everyone has a different experience. Even at the same club we have had different experiences year to year and from kid to kid. No one club is perfect for all players or even good for all players. Even when you do your research you can get screwed. People change. Adults can get screwed. Not kids. Change always comes too late. Kids can totally get screwed. Bad behavior by coaches affects the kids more than the parents. Parents pay money. Kids pay with the hearts and souls. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Mar 8, 2022 21:58:00 GMT -5
No question. Pour decisions are made. Player retention used to be a priority for clubs, I don’t get that sense anymore.
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Post by atlantasoccerdad2020 on Mar 11, 2022 19:13:38 GMT -5
Neither. I would go to a club that is going to get you 75% or higher playing time. These 2 clubs are set with their roster for the most part at this age.
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Post by BubbleDad on Mar 12, 2022 22:44:46 GMT -5
Neither. Our child has had bad experiences at both. Parents have entirely too much influence (wading into the waters of flat out corruption in some cases) at both clubs. In our experience the staff and leadership at GSA was the most fair, honest, and honorable. If your kid can play and works hard at GSA, they will get the playing time and accolades they deserve, no matter your family status or income. We don’t have any experience at UFA so I can’t speak to the merits of that club. But I find both Concorde and Tophat to have some extremely problematic and disturbing practices. Tophat is a all girls club and they don’t even have a woman on the board. That’s crazy…. Damn ... never thought of them not having a female on the board! My daughter played at Tophat, but now at another club but I wouldn't say that we wouldn't go back. I think these clubs need to have player evaluations publicized so you can see why a player gets picked over another |
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Post by GeorgiaSoccerMom on Mar 14, 2022 7:13:12 GMT -5
I love the idea of having player evaluations publicized. If nothing else, to see what the strengths and weaknesses are and what they are looking for. If you saw an evaluation of another player who got picked over your player who did not, there is a lot to be learned over that. I will also echo, that it is VERY heard to break into a top team at the older level unless your player is already well known. By well known, your player is already being looked at by colleges.
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Post by rudy on Mar 14, 2022 10:07:30 GMT -5
Publisizing evaluations of kids with names will never happen. That is ridiculous to even suggest. Remember, even if a coach picks the best players who come out, there is no guarantee of success. Every game someone loses. Soccer is a cruel sport moreso than most. You can outshoot a team 30 shots to 1 and lose 1-0.
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Post by soccerparent02 on Mar 14, 2022 10:12:21 GMT -5
Ditto on the evaluations...bad idea. By u15, the top players are known by the coaches and by the players. Most of the movement on the truly top teams comes from bettering their 14th - 18th players assuming they keep 18. Those players can work to impress and earn playing time. By u15, colleges also have the top players on their radar.
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Post by unitedwestand on Mar 15, 2022 20:09:30 GMT -5
Ditto on the evaluations...bad idea. By u15, the top players are known by the coaches and by the players. Most of the movement on the truly top teams comes from bettering their 14th - 18th players assuming they keep 18. Those players can work to impress and earn playing time. By u15, colleges also have the top players on their radar. By U15 is a stretch. College coaches don’t even look at teams at that age or younger at showcases and the players aren’t eligible for ID camps until after their 8th grade year. With the transfer portal it’s going to be harder and harder for players to get looked at unless the player and family are actively marketing them. Sure you may have an anomaly here or there but those players are only starting to get looked at at U15. This isn't true at all. They won't talk to you at those ages. But the damn sure are scouting and talking to the coaches and clubs. You couldn't be more wrong. And they do have ID Camps starting in 8th grade. I don't know where you're getting your information but you're wrong. |
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Post by soccerparent02 on Mar 15, 2022 21:03:46 GMT -5
Exactly...they are watching and taking notes. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Kid received over 20 offers from all levels NAIA, juco, D1, D2 and D3.
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Post by BubbleDad on Mar 16, 2022 0:14:52 GMT -5
Publisizing evaluations of kids with names will never happen. That is ridiculous to even suggest. Remember, even if a coach picks the best players who come out, there is no guarantee of success. Every game someone loses. Soccer is a cruel sport moreso than most. You can outshoot a team 30 shots to 1 and lose 1-0. Evaluations aren't just based on individual play, it's also 5v2, 3v3, 2v1 and so on. Some players will purposely sabotage another players chances at tryouts just to put their homie in a better light. Aware coaches will see that and include in an evaluation. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 16, 2022 7:00:00 GMT -5
By U15 is a stretch. College coaches don’t even look at teams at that age or younger at showcases and the players aren’t eligible for ID camps until after their 8th grade year. With the transfer portal it’s going to be harder and harder for players to get looked at unless the player and family are actively marketing them. Sure you may have an anomaly here or there but those players are only starting to get looked at at U15. This isn't true at all. They won't talk to you at those ages. But the damn sure are scouting and talking to the coaches and clubs. You couldn't be more wrong. And they do have ID Camps starting in 8th grade. I don't know where you're getting your information but you're wrong. Some camps won't take you until high school and some start with 7th grade. In addition they will make exceptions for exceptional players. Also they do look at U15 but can't talk to them. They are watching kids early. That being said the transfer portal has and will change things AND the extra covid year has changed things for 2020-2023 grads. I know many Tophat, UFA and CF 2023 grads ECNL/GA who have not committed. Years ago this would be a handful of kids, not the majority of the kids (on girls side). As with many things related to soccer...things change all of the time. |
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Post by atlantasoccerdad2020 on Mar 16, 2022 8:49:35 GMT -5
This isn't true at all. They won't talk to you at those ages. But the damn sure are scouting and talking to the coaches and clubs. You couldn't be more wrong. And they do have ID Camps starting in 8th grade. I don't know where you're getting your information but you're wrong. Some camps won't take you until high school and some start with 7th grade. In addition they will make exceptions for exceptional players. Also they do look at U15 but can't talk to them. They are watching kids early. That being said the transfer portal has and will change things AND the extra covid year has changed things for 2020-2023 grads. I know many Tophat, UFA and CF 2023 grads ECNL/GA who have not committed. Years ago this would be a handful of kids, not the majority of the kids (on girls side). As with many things related to soccer...things change all of the time. Meant to edit my original post and ended up deleting it. This was exactly my point. Those who have players already in college or already out of college did not deal with the same environment. Yes I’m aware they keep an eye on players but they do not contact them more like monitor their progression from afar. |
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Post by soccerdad30303 on Mar 17, 2022 10:54:09 GMT -5
What do you guys look for in a program? For me I am all about who has best academy development then the ECNLvs GAL stuff works out. I am seeing much better player development at Tophat vs Concorde vs UFA vs GSA and SSA at the Academy level, does anyone else see different or same? For the most part they all have very competitive select level clubs but where are the best getting their development? That is key as I see people finding what’s best for their kids but development at academy is what sets you up for greater long term success.
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Post by roki12 on Mar 17, 2022 12:17:28 GMT -5
What do you guys look for in a program? For me I am all about who has best academy development then the ECNLvs GAL stuff works out. I am seeing much better player development at Tophat vs Concorde vs UFA vs GSA and SSA at the Academy level, does anyone else see different or same? For the most part they all have very competitive select level clubs but where are the best getting their development? That is key as I see people finding what’s best for their kids but development at academy is what sets you up for greater long term success. In my personal opinion, Tophat hands down is the most consistent across age groups and teams. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 17, 2022 16:54:08 GMT -5
What do you guys look for in a program? For me I am all about who has best academy development then the ECNLvs GAL stuff works out. I am seeing much better player development at Tophat vs Concorde vs UFA vs GSA and SSA at the Academy level, does anyone else see different or same? For the most part they all have very competitive select level clubs but where are the best getting their development? That is key as I see people finding what’s best for their kids but development at academy is what sets you up for greater long term success. In my personal opinion, Tophat hands down is the most consistent across age groups and teams. Academy development Tophat is king. The other depend on what you want your player to work on. I will say that the main location has some issues with TC. He is too hard for many players to take. Overall though Tophat really stresses the use of your technical skills in addition to good spacing and passing. I think the UFA does a good job as well but it is a little less consistent across teams and age groups than Tophat. They have a good mix of fast and physical and technical and all 3. Concorde seems to have a lot of strong players but not an overall style of play across all teams and age groups. Their top two teams at the central location are strong. They favor fast and physical, but do have technical players as well. If they have to choose between the two they take fast and physical. GSA seems to me to have a lot of really good teams but no club style of play. They collect disgruntled players from other clubs to form great teams. Lots of transplants from other clubs coming in after U14-15. SSA is aka MMA by a lot of people. No consistent style except that. However it will be hard to say what will happen going forward since they have a "top league" for the first time OFFICIALLY. Things may change so worth keeping an eye on. AFU is always the odd man out. I do think their academy development is good, but they struggle to hold on to their best as the kids get older. Two things are key IMO. Development over wins has to be in the mind and heart of the coaches and the parents. Only when the kids feel free to make mistakes will they truly develop the best. This is the hardest thing. I hear complaints from parents when they see defenders dribbling or passing to open players in the middle (i.e. holding mids) or back to the keepers, but these are the skills that the kids need to do. Who cares if the other team scores. Let them get comfortable with the ball at their feet, playing the way they face and solving pressure. |
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Post by crazzzy4soccer on Mar 18, 2022 11:39:53 GMT -5
Wait if Academy development at TH is “king” why do most players come to TH AFTER the academy years from other club and bump players who are TH originals?
Not many older teams are filled with girls who’s early development came from TH…
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Post by manutott on Mar 18, 2022 11:45:40 GMT -5
In my personal opinion, Tophat hands down is the most consistent across age groups and teams. Academy development Tophat is king. The other depend on what you want your player to work on. I will say that the main location has some issues with TC. He is too hard for many players to take. Overall though Tophat really stresses the use of your technical skills in addition to good spacing and passing. I think the UFA does a good job as well but it is a little less consistent across teams and age groups than Tophat. They have a good mix of fast and physical and technical and all 3. Concorde seems to have a lot of strong players but not an overall style of play across all teams and age groups. Their top two teams at the central location are strong. They favor fast and physical, but do have technical players as well. If they have to choose between the two they take fast and physical. GSA seems to me to have a lot of really good teams but no club style of play. They collect disgruntled players from other clubs to form great teams. Lots of transplants from other clubs coming in after U14-15. SSA is aka MMA by a lot of people. No consistent style except that. However it will be hard to say what will happen going forward since they have a "top league" for the first time OFFICIALLY. Things may change so worth keeping an eye on. AFU is always the odd man out. I do think their academy development is good, but they struggle to hold on to their best as the kids get older. Two things are key IMO. Development over wins has to be in the mind and heart of the coaches and the parents. Only when the kids feel free to make mistakes will they truly develop the best. This is the hardest thing. I hear complaints from parents when they see defenders dribbling or passing to open players in the middle (i.e. holding mids) or back to the keepers, but these are the skills that the kids need to do. Who cares if the other team scores. Let them get comfortable with the ball at their feet, playing the way they face and solving pressure. |
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