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Post by soccerforprofit on Aug 22, 2022 16:21:39 GMT -5
There is always 2 sides to every story, but summary of what I heard from UFA-AFU 07 ECNL game on Sunday.
What I heard was ref was overzealous and gave 07 UFA coach 2 yellows a few minutes apart over issues surrounding player cards. The ref wasn't going to allow any substitutions because he "claimed" the UFA team did not have their player cards. This interaction and disagreement led to the first yellow given the banter back n forth between the UFA sideline and the ref. Then what I heard was the player cards were found near the refs bags, and upon the coach showing him the cards and the location of the cards he was shown a 2nd yellow and thrown out. Heard even the AFU coach thought the referees actions were wrong.
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Post by diamondmid on Aug 22, 2022 16:37:54 GMT -5
Sounds like we might be missing parts of the story.
If there were no players cards- would the ref let the match start to begin with? If he saw them to check in everyone before the game, then why would the ref then say no subs due to no cards?
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Aug 22, 2022 16:51:46 GMT -5
I'm actually surprised they even HAVE player cards at this point.
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Post by soccerforprofit on Aug 22, 2022 16:51:54 GMT -5
Yes, the team had checked in earlier with the player cards, and then when he went to sub the first time, the coach had never gotten the cards back after checking in and just realized it when it was time to sub. They wouldn't let him sub without the player cards, which at that moment he couldn't find.
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Post by soccerforprofit on Aug 22, 2022 16:52:46 GMT -5
I'm actually surprised they even HAVE player cards at this point. agree -- but it's mostly used to make sure players don't re-enter in the same half. |
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Post by diamondmid on Aug 22, 2022 16:58:08 GMT -5
Yes, the team had checked in earlier with the player cards, and then when he went to sub the first time, the coach had never gotten the cards back after checking in and just realized it when it was time to sub. They wouldn't let him sub without the player cards, which at that moment he couldn't find. Sounds like the ref was a little overzealous but I’d bet the coach’s mouth/reaction got him the yellows more than anything else. |
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Post by Brinker on Aug 22, 2022 17:58:22 GMT -5
In a ECNL game last season, the coach forgot the cards, and both teams had to wait for him to go retrieve them so I am surprised the game even started without cards.
Curious about the result of the game too. ECNL website is not up to date, so no reporting on this opening weekend’s ECNL boys results.
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Post by atlantasoccerdad2020 on Aug 22, 2022 18:05:39 GMT -5
In a ECNL game last season, the coach forgot the cards, and both teams had to wait for him to go retrieve them so I am surprised the game even started without cards. Curious about the result of the game too. ECNL website is not up to date, so no reporting on this opening weekend’s ECNL boys results. AFU won 1-0. Before anyone starts it was on a PK some will cry about. It was a bang bang play the defender kicked the ball away but a split second later the keeper put a big hit on the striker flipping him over drawing a yellow earning AFU a pk. I suppose the foul was for not making a play on the ball as it was already cleared. As for the UFA coach he almost got in more trouble coaching from outside the field. |
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Post by atlantasoccerdad2020 on Aug 22, 2022 18:06:36 GMT -5
Yes, the team had checked in earlier with the player cards, and then when he went to sub the first time, the coach had never gotten the cards back after checking in and just realized it when it was time to sub. They wouldn't let him sub without the player cards, which at that moment he couldn't find. Sounds like the ref was a little overzealous but I’d bet the coach’s mouth/reaction got him the yellows more than anything else. He wouldn’t shut up and my guess he has a always like that and the ref had enough. A parent was kicked out too. |
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Post by Brinker on Aug 22, 2022 18:13:57 GMT -5
Sounds like the ref was a little overzealous but I’d bet the coach’s mouth/reaction got him the yellows more than anything else. He wouldn’t shut up and my guess he has a always like that and the ref had enough. A parent was kicked out too. NASA 07s played UFA 07s the day before and the Coach and the parents seemed fine and everyone was well behaved. NASA won 2-1, after going down 1-0 at half. |
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Post by atlantasoccerdad2020 on Aug 22, 2022 18:18:27 GMT -5
He wouldn’t shut up and my guess he has a always like that and the ref had enough. A parent was kicked out too. NASA 07s played UFA 07s the day before and the Coach and the parents seemed fine and everyone was well behaved. NASA won 2-1, after going down 1-0 at half. That could explain the parent getting kicked out late in the game. Team had already lost one game and was getting out played a second game so they were just frustrated. Parent kept crying about how American soccer can never advance because of stuff like this talking about the PK to an AR so the AR told him to leave. Plain and simple he didn’t have a very good vantage point and was just being huffy puffy as parents usually are on the sidelines. |
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Post by diamondmid on Aug 22, 2022 18:40:45 GMT -5
NASA 07s played UFA 07s the day before and the Coach and the parents seemed fine and everyone was well behaved. NASA won 2-1, after going down 1-0 at half. That could explain the parent getting kicked out late in the game. Team had already lost one game and was getting out played a second game so they were just frustrated. Parent kept crying about how American soccer can never advance because of stuff like this talking about the PK to an AR so the AR told him to leave. Plain and simple he didn’t have a very good vantage point and was just being huffy puffy as parents usually are on the sidelines. If it happened as described, not much to complain about. Keeper can’t just clean someone out without a play on the ball. Any other weekend scores ? |
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Post by Brinker on Aug 22, 2022 18:50:27 GMT -5
NASA beat GSA in boys ECNL age groups on Sunday, U15, U16, U17 and U18/19.
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Post by diamondmid on Aug 22, 2022 18:51:49 GMT -5
NASA beat GSA in boys ECNL age groups on Sunday, U15, U16, U17 and U18/19. Does NASA ever lose? |
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Post by socceristhebest on Aug 22, 2022 19:09:20 GMT -5
I think most coaches would lose their cool under those circumstances.
the AR is one of the few refs I've seen that used to ref DA, I believe he refs college games as well. He's a pretty good ref.
Center had an agenda in my opinion. Guy had a history back in the days at Norcross.
PK was a bang bang play -- tough call to or not to make. Very difficult call or no call for sure. The tough part about the call was the timing, last few minutes of a 0-0 game. The play just looked really bad and you heard the collision between the keeper and player. They also disallowed a goal in the last 30 seconds, but it was probably the right call, they said the keeper had possession. From my viewpoint, it was just in the keepers hand, so right call in my opinion.
Buddy's kid is on one of the older teams, he heard one of the ARs from that game tell the AFU coach after the game - "I'm glad your team won that game..." That same ar ended up being the center of the next 06 game.
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Post by rifle on Aug 22, 2022 19:55:22 GMT -5
Interesting story. Would be pretty harsh if the ref held the passes after check-in and then got upset at the coach for not having passes. Still, it would probably have been no issue if people kept their cool and treated one another with respect.
Wonder if a player arrived late.. after the ref checked the team papers. Happens a lot and it causes confusion. You better know the other team would make noise if a questionable player enters…
IMO the ECNL sub rules are dumb. They’re kids not professionals. Let them play.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Aug 23, 2022 8:16:09 GMT -5
NASA 07s played UFA 07s the day before and the Coach and the parents seemed fine and everyone was well behaved. NASA won 2-1, after going down 1-0 at half. That could explain the parent getting kicked out late in the game. Team had already lost one game and was getting out played a second game so they were just frustrated. Parent kept crying about how American soccer can never advance because of stuff like this talking about the PK to an AR so the AR told him to leave. Plain and simple he didn’t have a very good vantage point and was just being huffy puffy as parents usually are on the sidelines. No dawg in this fight, but I have always wondered, how do you as a parent get kicked out of a child's youth game? Honestly, it does not matter what age, league, division, tourney or circumstances. You have one job, okay, maybe two depending on age - get your kid to the fields on-time and cheer your kid and their team, period. No one gets recruited or signed, or make a world cup team, off of one game, so I say again, how do you get kicked out of a child's youth game...😨 |
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Post by bolo on Aug 23, 2022 8:40:40 GMT -5
IMO the ECNL sub rules are dumb. They’re kids not professionals. Let them play. Agree with this 100%. Don't restrict kids'- and these are still kids- ability to play, by in a lot of ways hamstringing coaches in terms of forcing them to make difficult substitution decisions. In a 40 or 45-minute half, I don't see the harm- and can actually see benefit- in, for example, a starter being able to come out after 25 minutes, take a 5-7 minute break to rest & get hydrated and maybe even get some instruction on the sideline, then be able to go back in and finish the half a little more strongly than if they had to play the whole way through. And heaven forbid a coach decides to hold a player out for almost an entire half "just in case someone gets hurt", since there are stupidly and ridiculously, in youth soccer, no allowances for injury-related subs other than "head injuries". Also allows for more positional flexibility, which can make the game for fun & interesting for the players. Let's be honest, at even the ECNL level (and also ECNL-R, where the sub rules are the same), the vast majority of players aren't going to play soccer for a living, or even in college. So why do their sub rules have to be more rigid than college, and in line with the pros and international soccer? These are kids, let them play. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Aug 23, 2022 9:32:59 GMT -5
AFU won 1-0. Before anyone starts it was on a PK some will cry about. It was a bang bang play the defender kicked the ball away but a split second later the keeper put a big hit on the striker flipping him over drawing a yellow earning AFU a pk. I suppose the foul was for not making a play on the ball as it was already cleared. As for the UFA coach he almost got in more trouble coaching from outside the field. Why doesn't this get called more??? If the keeper makes zero ball contact but takes out the attacker in the 18, it should be a PK every time. |
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Post by GameOfThrow-ins on Aug 23, 2022 11:22:03 GMT -5
IMO the ECNL sub rules are dumb. They’re kids not professionals. Let them play. Agree with this 100%. Don't restrict kids'- and these are still kids- ability to play, by in a lot of ways hamstringing coaches in terms of forcing them to make difficult substitution decisions. In a 40 or 45-minute half, I don't see the harm- and can actually see benefit- in, for example, a starter being able to come out after 25 minutes, take a 5-7 minute break to rest & get hydrated and maybe even get some instruction on the sideline, then be able to go back in and finish the half a little more strongly than if they had to play the whole way through. And heaven forbid a coach decides to hold a player out for almost an entire half "just in case someone gets hurt", since there are stupidly and ridiculously, in youth soccer, no allowances for injury-related subs other than "head injuries". Also allows for more positional flexibility, which can make the game for fun & interesting for the players. Let's be honest, at even the ECNL level (and also ECNL-R, where the sub rules are the same), the vast majority of players aren't going to play soccer for a living, or even in college. So why do their sub rules have to be more rigid than college, and in line with the pros and international soccer? These are kids, let them play. In tournaments/showcases where the sub rules are unlimited I’ve also seen coaches game the system by subbing at every opportunity in the last 30 minutes to milk the clock and protect a lead, so there has to be some kind of common sense solution because you wouldn’t want to see that happen at every game throughout the season. |
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Post by bolo on Aug 23, 2022 11:40:31 GMT -5
Agree with this 100%. Don't restrict kids'- and these are still kids- ability to play, by in a lot of ways hamstringing coaches in terms of forcing them to make difficult substitution decisions. In a 40 or 45-minute half, I don't see the harm- and can actually see benefit- in, for example, a starter being able to come out after 25 minutes, take a 5-7 minute break to rest & get hydrated and maybe even get some instruction on the sideline, then be able to go back in and finish the half a little more strongly than if they had to play the whole way through. And heaven forbid a coach decides to hold a player out for almost an entire half "just in case someone gets hurt", since there are stupidly and ridiculously, in youth soccer, no allowances for injury-related subs other than "head injuries". Also allows for more positional flexibility, which can make the game for fun & interesting for the players. Let's be honest, at even the ECNL level (and also ECNL-R, where the sub rules are the same), the vast majority of players aren't going to play soccer for a living, or even in college. So why do their sub rules have to be more rigid than college, and in line with the pros and international soccer? These are kids, let them play. In tournaments/showcases where the sub rules are unlimited I’ve also seen coaches game the system by subbing at every opportunity in the last 30 minutes to milk the clock and protect a lead, so there has to be some kind of common sense solution because you wouldn’t want to see that happen at every game throughout the season. You make a fair point, and I guess it would have to be up to the ref to determine any type of blatant time-wasting, similar to what they would do with players going out of their way to excessively waste time on the field (walking slowly after balls out of bounds, taking forever for throw-ins or kicks, walking during substitutions, goalie "flopping", etc.). I still think the positives outweigh the potential negatives/coach exploitation. |
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Post by hotspur1 on Aug 23, 2022 13:33:23 GMT -5
That could explain the parent getting kicked out late in the game. Team had already lost one game and was getting out played a second game so they were just frustrated. Parent kept crying about how American soccer can never advance because of stuff like this talking about the PK to an AR so the AR told him to leave. Plain and simple he didn’t have a very good vantage point and was just being huffy puffy as parents usually are on the sidelines. No dawg in this fight, but I have always wondered, how do you as a parent get kicked out of a child's youth game? Honestly, it does not matter what age, league, division, tourney or circumstances. You have one job, okay, maybe two depending on age - get your kid to the fields on-time and cheer your kid and their team, period. No one gets recruited or signed, or make a world cup team, off of one game, so I say again, how do you get kicked out of a child's youth game...😨 So one of my good friends got kicked out by our own coach at our clubs tourney at u12. It was absolutely the perfect storm of events. One of our players got taken down, hard foul from behind. Minutes later a terrible call led to an injury of one of our players (offsides not called and other team forward slammed into our Keep with no shot of getting to ball). Moments later an offsides against us right in front of me and him. At the exact time he opened his mouth, somehow the entire sideline went silent, and he fairly loudly said to his wife “Are you f’n kidding me”. It was such terrible timing it was hilarious! The Center who was about 97 years old immediately went to sideline and told our coach the magic word was said. Our coach walked across the field and asked him to leave. This guy who is a very high ranking civil servant just tucked his head and left, it was awesome and I heckled him as he took the walk of shame. Oh and we won the game too. On the flip side I have been a part of a crew that tossed a parent and have actually broken up 2 fights…. Parents suck. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Aug 23, 2022 13:43:57 GMT -5
That could explain the parent getting kicked out late in the game. Team had already lost one game and was getting out played a second game so they were just frustrated. Parent kept crying about how American soccer can never advance because of stuff like this talking about the PK to an AR so the AR told him to leave. Plain and simple he didn’t have a very good vantage point and was just being huffy puffy as parents usually are on the sidelines. No dawg in this fight, but I have always wondered, how do you as a parent get kicked out of a child's youth game? Honestly, it does not matter what age, league, division, tourney or circumstances. You have one job, okay, maybe two depending on age - get your kid to the fields on-time and cheer your kid and their team, period. No one gets recruited or signed, or make a world cup team, off of one game, so I say again, how do you get kicked out of a child's youth game...😨 As an active and experienced referee, I was tossed from my kid's games 5-6 times over the years. Each time for pointing out that the referee wasn't doing their job, citing specific reasons, all relating to player safety. And I would do it again - can't stand lazy referees who fail to protect players - on either team - which is the number one job of a referee. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Aug 23, 2022 14:34:53 GMT -5
Agreed. Referee's #1 job is player safety. Protecting the fairness, fairly applying other laws of the game, etc...are secondary. They have the toolkit to protect player safety, including warnings/cautions/expulsions and even ending the game.
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Post by kidsocceruber on Aug 23, 2022 14:35:36 GMT -5
AFU won 1-0. Before anyone starts it was on a PK some will cry about. It was a bang bang play the defender kicked the ball away but a split second later the keeper put a big hit on the striker flipping him over drawing a yellow earning AFU a pk. I suppose the foul was for not making a play on the ball as it was already cleared. As for the UFA coach he almost got in more trouble coaching from outside the field. Why doesn't this get called more??? If the keeper makes zero ball contact but takes out the attacker in the 18, it should be a PK every time. I'm not sure all the refs know the rules behind DOGSO, including which card to give inside the penalty area for types of fouls playing (or not playing) the ball. |
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Post by atlantasoccerdad2020 on Aug 23, 2022 14:37:10 GMT -5
That could explain the parent getting kicked out late in the game. Team had already lost one game and was getting out played a second game so they were just frustrated. Parent kept crying about how American soccer can never advance because of stuff like this talking about the PK to an AR so the AR told him to leave. Plain and simple he didn’t have a very good vantage point and was just being huffy puffy as parents usually are on the sidelines. No dawg in this fight, but I have always wondered, how do you as a parent get kicked out of a child's youth game? Honestly, it does not matter what age, league, division, tourney or circumstances. You have one job, okay, maybe two depending on age - get your kid to the fields on-time and cheer your kid and their team, period. No one gets recruited or signed, or make a world cup team, off of one game, so I say again, how do you get kicked out of a child's youth game...😨 In this particular case the parent was a smug know it all. Call was against his team and kept going on and on for maybe 5 mins about how terrible the call was blah blah blah. AR got tired of hearing the guy behind him asked him to stop of course the blow hard had to make one last comment so the AR said you are out or here sir. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Aug 23, 2022 14:41:27 GMT -5
Why doesn't this get called more??? If the keeper makes zero ball contact but takes out the attacker in the 18, it should be a PK every time. I'm not sure all the refs know the rules behind DOGSO, including which card to give inside the penalty area for types of fouls playing (or not playing) the ball. Without getting into details, the DOGSO rules and interpretations continue to evolve. Add in referee experience and interpretation, and you get inconsistencies. Additionally, what constitutes DOGSO varies by age and level of play. A nasty looking but clumsy tackle for a 4th team game may not be DOGSO (lower skill, maybe not tactically aware of the situation), but the same at the 1st team level would be (know exactly what they are doing). The best part of in person referee recert was having the class watch videos of incidents and then vote on the punishment. It was never unanimous, and often split 40/40/20 - red / yellow / no card. Even after having the new interpretations explained... |
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Post by collegesoccer on Aug 23, 2022 15:48:06 GMT -5
No dawg in this fight, but I have always wondered, how do you as a parent get kicked out of a child's youth game? Honestly, it does not matter what age, league, division, tourney or circumstances. You have one job, okay, maybe two depending on age - get your kid to the fields on-time and cheer your kid and their team, period. No one gets recruited or signed, or make a world cup team, off of one game, so I say again, how do you get kicked out of a child's youth game...😨 As an active and experienced referee, I was tossed from my kid's games 5-6 times over the years. Each time for pointing out that the referee wasn't doing their job, citing specific reasons, all relating to player safety. And I would do it again - can't stand lazy referees who fail to protect players - on either team - which is the number one job of a referee. This is one of the most awesome stories I’ve ever heard. 😏 |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Aug 23, 2022 16:39:34 GMT -5
No dawg in this fight, but I have always wondered, how do you as a parent get kicked out of a child's youth game? Honestly, it does not matter what age, league, division, tourney or circumstances. You have one job, okay, maybe two depending on age - get your kid to the fields on-time and cheer your kid and their team, period. No one gets recruited or signed, or make a world cup team, off of one game, so I say again, how do you get kicked out of a child's youth game...😨 As an active and experienced referee, I was tossed from my kid's games 5-6 times over the years. Each time for pointing out that the referee wasn't doing their job, citing specific reasons, all relating to player safety. And I would do it again - can't stand lazy referees who fail to protect players - on either team - which is the number one job of a referee. As an active and experienced referee that used to be pretty hard on referees before I started refereeing myself, the only time I open my mouth for the most part now is this exact scenario of player safety. I also cite specific reasons on why they have not done their job telling them they have lost control of the game, and they need to start carding folks or there is going to be a brawl. I've even gone as far as asking the coach to take the team off the field in a situation where I thought the referee had absolutely lost control of the game and the other team was maliciously trying to injure players. I really don't care who or what team players gets given the cards or fouls, just as long as the referee keeps control of the game, and I even usually say that as well. Never been kicked out for it, but I agree that is the one thing that pisses me off to no end. I can deal with bad and blown calls for the most part. It is player safety issues and letting a game get out of control that is my problem with some referees. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Aug 23, 2022 16:44:40 GMT -5
"I really don't care who or what team players gets given the cards or fouls, just as long as the referee keeps control of the game, and I even usually say that as well. Never been kicked out for it, but I agree that is the one thing that pisses me off to no end. I can deal with bad and blown calls for the most part. It is player safety issues and letting a game get out of control that is my problem with some referees."
Same. According to my wife, I have a WAY of saying things that tends to get me in trouble...
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