|
|
Post by terimakasih12 on Oct 27, 2024 18:54:26 GMT -5
Parent of a player on my kid’s Academy team was ejected from a game this weekend. How rare is this below U13? This is my first time witnessing something like this (especially on my kid’s team) and I am still shocked. Embarrassing for the club and players.
|
|
gob31
Jr. Academy
Posts: 24
|
Post by gob31 on Oct 27, 2024 20:46:59 GMT -5
Parent of a player on my kid’s Academy team was ejected from a game this weekend. How rare is this below U13? This is my first time witnessing something like this (especially on my kid’s team) and I am still shocked. Embarrassing for the club and players. It doesn't happen as much as it should, honestly. At the academy age level refs tend to be young are typically are very reticent to kick a parent out because it requires a prolonged confrontation. It's incredibly embarrassing for everyone involved. |
|
|
|
Post by lajolla39 on Oct 27, 2024 21:48:11 GMT -5
Last time I saw a parent get booted a latin dad was yelling "punch them, trip them, fight them" type things at his kid. The CR was a white girl and she let it go at first but eventually she stopped play and gave him a warning. Then the guy switched to Spanish yelling the same type of things apparently thinking nobody else spoke Spanish at a soccer game. The CR gave him a red, stopped play, and made their coach boot the crazy guy off the field. I assume if the coach didn't boot the guy the game would gave ended in a forfeit.
This is just the most recent one I can remember.
|
|
rotgg
Jr. Academy
Posts: 86
|
Post by rotgg on Oct 28, 2024 7:37:33 GMT -5
It definitely happen more but its not that rare
|
|
|
|
Post by Soccer912 on Oct 28, 2024 7:51:03 GMT -5
We played a recent NL Piedmont event in Rock Hill, SC and watched the entire sideline get cleared for the game that was being played right before ours. Apparently, a couple of parents from opposing teams were near physical blows.
|
|
|
|
Post by allthingsoccer on Oct 28, 2024 8:15:18 GMT -5
Our TM and coach talk with the refs at the beginning of every game and let them know that if any parent on the sideline that threatens players, yells at refs ect have full power to red card the parent/s. We have a zero tolerance policy.
We also have every family sign a zero tolerance policy agreement.
|
|
|
|
Post by bolo on Oct 28, 2024 8:42:22 GMT -5
Parent of a player on my kid’s Academy team was ejected from a game this weekend. How rare is this below U13? This is my first time witnessing something like this (especially on my kid’s team) and I am still shocked. Embarrassing for the club and players. Care to share what happened? Would be curious around the details. I haven't seen it given as an actual red card, but have definitely seen some parents kicked off the sidelines in my day. In a fairly meaningless tournament/showcase game last spring (older ages, only spring event we played after the high school season, not the highest level of competition or anything), the opposing team in one game had 2 separate parents get booted off the sidelines for riding the refs way too much, including one cussing. And then, right after the final whistle blew, another parent jumped up and cussed at the refs (yelled, "Glad the game's over so I can tell you what a sh**ty job you did!"), at which point the ref called him & the coach over to say he wasn't allowed back the rest of the weekend. The players were the ones most embarrassed about the whole deal, as you might imagine. It was very classless, and I'm just glad it was the opposing parents, not ours! |
|
|
|
Post by terimakasih12 on Oct 28, 2024 11:04:01 GMT -5
Parent of a player on my kid’s Academy team was ejected from a game this weekend. How rare is this below U13? This is my first time witnessing something like this (especially on my kid’s team) and I am still shocked. Embarrassing for the club and players. Care to share what happened? Would be curious around the details. I haven't seen it given as an actual red card, but have definitely seen some parents kicked off the sidelines in my day. In a fairly meaningless tournament/showcase game last spring (older ages, only spring event we played after the high school season, not the highest level of competition or anything), the opposing team in one game had 2 separate parents get booted off the sidelines for riding the refs way too much, including one cussing. And then, right after the final whistle blew, another parent jumped up and cussed at the refs (yelled, "Glad the game's over so I can tell you what a sh**ty job you did!"), at which point the ref called him & the coach over to say he wasn't allowed back the rest of the weekend. The players were the ones most embarrassed about the whole deal, as you might imagine. It was very classless, and I'm just glad it was the opposing parents, not ours! The short version is that it was a mess and cops were almost called. The longer version is below. The ref had not been making many calls the first 20 minutes. He didn’t stop the game for headers (this was an Academy game) and he missed some obvious fouls by both teams. At some point, an opposing player pushed a player on my kid’s team over and then scored about two seconds later. One of the parents started making comments to the ref and then stood up and screamed several obscenities. The ref warned the parent several times and said, “I’m about to throw you out.” Unfortunately, the parent kept yelling. Red card came after that. The parent then walked to the parking lot and continued to cause a scene once the game continued. Some adults from the opposing team tried to calm the parent down but it only made the situation worse. Things finally got better at halftime when it was clear cops were about to be called. The icing on the cake was that my kid’s coach was also yelling at the ref after the foul and threw something in their anger that almost hit one of the players. Set a great example for the kids. 🤦♂️ |
|
|
|
Post by rpsoccer on Oct 28, 2024 11:16:47 GMT -5
Accordingly to the US Soccer disciplinary matrix, the parent can be suspended for 6 games. If it were escalated to physical, then the parent would be banned for 1 year.
|
|
|
|
Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 28, 2024 12:02:13 GMT -5
Oh, yea, I've seen it -- i've also seen on numerous occasions the ref stop the game until every parent left the sidelines etc.
I've actually also seen a ref run of the field during the middle of the game, and quit.
parents will always be crazy, that will never change.......
|
|
|
|
Post by playfromtheback on Oct 28, 2024 12:05:17 GMT -5
I have seen many times when parents should have been asked to leave. A team my son used to play with had some parents who are horrible to refs and it was constantly embarrassing. As one of their son's got older he would start to argue with the ref on the field and the dad would get on to him. But I wonder where he learned that from....
I love that we have more young refs. My only complaint about them is that they need to feel empowered to take control of the game. One of my son's games this weekend is a perfect example of it. The center and AR's were all young (we had the last match of the day and the centers mom was picking him up). It was a u13 game that was very physical and towards the end was getting chippy. I told my wife I wish he would card someone to help take control of the match (there were multiple fouls that could have easily been a yellow).
|
|
|
|
Post by slickdaddy96 on Oct 28, 2024 16:38:52 GMT -5
Technically no the referee does not have the full power to give a red card to a parent as someone said. They do however have the right to tell a parent to leave the sight and sound of the field (usually the parking lot), or the right to clear a whole sideline. That isn't a "red card" though.
I have already dismissed 3 parents this Fall season already to their car. Last year a parent approached me in a threatening manner and he was suspended for the entire next year from being at games by his kid's club.
USSF tries to tell referees to get the Coach to handle it, they don't always want to though. So me being an adult, I will always just ask the parent to leave. I do this because I know a teen may be reluctant or scared to do that, so I want to weed out the bad parents early and often so that they don't think they can get away with that crap toward a teenager referee.
The referee also has the right if the parent will not leave and the coach will not handle it to end the game. I have come close to doing this once at a tournament where a parent told me she was not going to leave and that I didn't have the power to make her. I said ok that's fine but I have the power to blow the whistle 3x right now and end the game and it will be your fault if that happens. She finally left! LOL...
|
|
|
|
Post by gtreferee on Oct 29, 2024 9:01:02 GMT -5
Technically no the referee does not have the full power to give a red card to a parent as someone said. They do however have the right to tell a parent to leave the sight and sound of the field (usually the parking lot), or the right to clear a whole sideline. That isn't a "red card" though. I have already dismissed 3 parents this Fall season already to their car. Last year a parent approached me in a threatening manner and he was suspended for the entire next year from being at games by his kid's club. USSF tries to tell referees to get the Coach to handle it, they don't always want to though. So me being an adult, I will always just ask the parent to leave. I do this because I know a teen may be reluctant or scared to do that, so I want to weed out the bad parents early and often so that they don't think they can get away with that crap toward a teenager referee. The referee also has the right if the parent will not leave and the coach will not handle it to end the game. I have come close to doing this once at a tournament where a parent told me she was not going to leave and that I didn't have the power to make her. I said ok that's fine but I have the power to blow the whistle 3x right now and end the game and it will be your fault if that happens. She finally left! LOL... Yeah this sums it up well. As a referee our power does does not extend to the spectators. However we are able to work with coaches, venue managers, etc. depending on the league and aossociations to ask them to remove spectators engaging in unacceptable behavior and have the power to abandon the game if someone does not leave if they are a major disturbance. Then referees can write supplemental reports to the league and they can decide what sanctions to place on offending parties. Unfortunately this seems to happen the most with small sided games, U13 and younger, with young teenage referees. So to any parent before you yell at a young referee on a small game remember they are learning how to ref just like your kid is learning how to play. W/L does not matter at that age only developpement and enjoyment. Also yelling at a kid trying to do a job that their parent told them to do or they care about and want to get better at is gross behavior. We should be empowering young referees to learn and develop because that will help fix the shortage of referees for older and higher level games where there are more stakes. This weekend a big six club did not have center referees for ECNL games the night before... Most referees quit within 2 years of starting and parental dissent is the number one reason people quit, especially minors. TLDR: Be part of the solution not the problem to help grow and fix the game we all love |
|
|
|
Post by bolo on Oct 29, 2024 9:35:44 GMT -5
Care to share what happened? Would be curious around the details. I haven't seen it given as an actual red card, but have definitely seen some parents kicked off the sidelines in my day. In a fairly meaningless tournament/showcase game last spring (older ages, only spring event we played after the high school season, not the highest level of competition or anything), the opposing team in one game had 2 separate parents get booted off the sidelines for riding the refs way too much, including one cussing. And then, right after the final whistle blew, another parent jumped up and cussed at the refs (yelled, "Glad the game's over so I can tell you what a sh**ty job you did!"), at which point the ref called him & the coach over to say he wasn't allowed back the rest of the weekend. The players were the ones most embarrassed about the whole deal, as you might imagine. It was very classless, and I'm just glad it was the opposing parents, not ours! The short version is that it was a mess and cops were almost called. The longer version is below. The ref had not been making many calls the first 20 minutes. He didn’t stop the game for headers (this was an Academy game) and he missed some obvious fouls by both teams. At some point, an opposing player pushed a player on my kid’s team over and then scored about two seconds later. One of the parents started making comments to the ref and then stood up and screamed several obscenities. The ref warned the parent several times and said, “I’m about to throw you out.” Unfortunately, the parent kept yelling. Red card came after that. The parent then walked to the parking lot and continued to cause a scene once the game continued. Some adults from the opposing team tried to calm the parent down but it only made the situation worse. Things finally got better at halftime when it was clear cops were about to be called. The icing on the cake was that my kid’s coach was also yelling at the ref after the foul and threw something in their anger that almost hit one of the players. Set a great example for the kids. 🤦♂️ Thanks for the explanation, and honestly- and unfortunately- it kind of makes sense reading this how a parent (or parents) could get upset in that situation. Doesn't excuse cussing at the ref, but in any game, if a ref is consistently missing obvious calls, including fouls where player safety might start to be an issue, you're going to get parents riled up & chirping. It's not something you want to happen, but it's human nature. Parents come into these games expecting a certain level of competence and even-handedness from the refs, and when they're clearly not seeing it, some are going to lash out. Again, especially when it involves fouls that are NOT called or cards that are NOT given. Refs letting games get out of control & players getting fouled hard and/or hurt as a result is the quickest way to get parents upset, and while we all wish it wouldn't happen, it's just going to. Now, parents have to exhibit more self-control and need to know when to let it go, especially when the ref says he's to the point of kicking you off the sidelines. But it's hard to just sit there & keep quiet as a parent in those situations. I still remember when my daughter was probably U12, playing a game that the ref let get way too physical early. My daughter is dribbling the ball when a girl on the other team just ran right through her with a forearm to the throat, no attempt to actually play the ball. My daughter goes down in pain & tears, and the ref just sits there staring at the play & calls nothing. At that point you're damn right I yelled at him! It was a player safety issue, and he was letting it get out of control to the point where young girls were getting hurt. And I would do it again in the same scenario. These refs are getting paid to do a job competently, and job one is to keep the kids safe out there. When they don't show the ability or interest in doing even that basic task, they should be called out for it. And I don't apologize for taking that view in the least. |
|
|
|
Post by slickdaddy96 on Oct 29, 2024 10:01:08 GMT -5
The short version is that it was a mess and cops were almost called. The longer version is below. The ref had not been making many calls the first 20 minutes. He didn’t stop the game for headers (this was an Academy game) and he missed some obvious fouls by both teams. At some point, an opposing player pushed a player on my kid’s team over and then scored about two seconds later. One of the parents started making comments to the ref and then stood up and screamed several obscenities. The ref warned the parent several times and said, “I’m about to throw you out.” Unfortunately, the parent kept yelling. Red card came after that. The parent then walked to the parking lot and continued to cause a scene once the game continued. Some adults from the opposing team tried to calm the parent down but it only made the situation worse. Things finally got better at halftime when it was clear cops were about to be called. The icing on the cake was that my kid’s coach was also yelling at the ref after the foul and threw something in their anger that almost hit one of the players. Set a great example for the kids. 🤦♂️ Thanks for the explanation, and honestly- and unfortunately- it kind of makes sense reading this how a parent (or parents) could get upset in that situation. Doesn't excuse cussing at the ref, but in any game, if a ref is consistently missing obvious calls, including fouls where player safety might start to be an issue, you're going to get parents riled up & chirping. It's not something you want to happen, but it's human nature. Parents come into these games expecting a certain level of competence and even-handedness from the refs, and when they're clearly not seeing it, some are going to lash out. Again, especially when it involves fouls that are NOT called or cards that are NOT given. Refs letting games get out of control & players getting fouled hard and/or hurt as a result is the quickest way to get parents upset, and while we all wish it wouldn't happen, it's just going to. Now, parents have to exhibit more self-control and need to know when to let it go, especially when the ref says he's to the point of kicking you off the sidelines. But it's hard to just sit there & keep quiet as a parent in those situations. I still remember when my daughter was probably U12, playing a game that the ref let get way too physical early. My daughter is dribbling the ball when a girl on the other team just ran right through her with a forearm to the throat, no attempt to actually play the ball. My daughter goes down in pain & tears, and the ref just sits there staring at the play & calls nothing. At that point you're damn right I yelled at him! It was a player safety issue, and he was letting it get out of control to the point where young girls were getting hurt. And I would do it again in the same scenario. These refs are getting paid to do a job competently, and job one is to keep the kids safe out there. When they don't show the ability or interest in doing even that basic task, they should be called out for it. And I don't apologize for taking that view in the least. At this point and time as a referee myself, the only time I have an issue with another referee like at my kid's games is if they are letting the game get out of control to the point where there is about to be a fight or a player or players are about to seriously get injured. I can only think of 2x since I have been a referee where it was enough for me to just state hey you need to start giving out some cards (and I don't care on what team) to calm this game down or there is going to be a fight or someone seriously injured. They were both U16-U17 older boys games where tempers flare sometimes. I can't totally blame the center completely in those instances. He had some younger ARs helping and some of the more egregious stuff happened late and when he was turned away, but that is the job of the AR to catch and flag. Those two games were bad enough to even the coach of my kid's team was debating walking the team off the field. Otherwise I keep my mouth shut about referees, and try to educate the parents on why a call was made the way it was made if I can figure it out even when they didn't like it. I'll go ahead and tell on myself though, I was not always that way. It was only when my kid became a referee and then me a year or so later that I realized that some of the stuff I had said to referees previously was uncalled for. I think you got to walk in their shoes to fully understand things. I may not always agree with the call on the field when I'm spectating just as some may not agree in my calls as well, but unless its getting to the point of someone getting injured or a fight about to occur, I keep my mouth shut now. |
|
|
|
Post by bolo on Oct 29, 2024 10:17:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the explanation, and honestly- and unfortunately- it kind of makes sense reading this how a parent (or parents) could get upset in that situation. Doesn't excuse cussing at the ref, but in any game, if a ref is consistently missing obvious calls, including fouls where player safety might start to be an issue, you're going to get parents riled up & chirping. It's not something you want to happen, but it's human nature. Parents come into these games expecting a certain level of competence and even-handedness from the refs, and when they're clearly not seeing it, some are going to lash out. Again, especially when it involves fouls that are NOT called or cards that are NOT given. Refs letting games get out of control & players getting fouled hard and/or hurt as a result is the quickest way to get parents upset, and while we all wish it wouldn't happen, it's just going to. Now, parents have to exhibit more self-control and need to know when to let it go, especially when the ref says he's to the point of kicking you off the sidelines. But it's hard to just sit there & keep quiet as a parent in those situations. I still remember when my daughter was probably U12, playing a game that the ref let get way too physical early. My daughter is dribbling the ball when a girl on the other team just ran right through her with a forearm to the throat, no attempt to actually play the ball. My daughter goes down in pain & tears, and the ref just sits there staring at the play & calls nothing. At that point you're damn right I yelled at him! It was a player safety issue, and he was letting it get out of control to the point where young girls were getting hurt. And I would do it again in the same scenario. These refs are getting paid to do a job competently, and job one is to keep the kids safe out there. When they don't show the ability or interest in doing even that basic task, they should be called out for it. And I don't apologize for taking that view in the least. At this point and time as a referee myself, the only time I have an issue with another referee like at my kid's games is if they are letting the game get out of control to the point where there is about to be a fight or a player or players are about to seriously get injured. I can only think of 2x since I have been a referee where it was enough for me to just state hey you need to start giving out some cards (and I don't care on what team) to calm this game down or there is going to be a fight or someone seriously injured. They were both U16-U17 older boys games where tempers flare sometimes. I can't totally blame the center completely in those instances. He had some younger ARs helping and some of the more egregious stuff happened late and when he was turned away, but that is the job of the AR to catch and flag. Those two games were bad enough to even the coach of my kid's team was debating walking the team off the field. Otherwise I keep my mouth shut about referees, and try to educate the parents on why a call was made the way it was made if I can figure it out even when they didn't like it. I'll go ahead and tell on myself though, I was not always that way. It was only when my kid became a referee and then me a year or so later that I realized that some of the stuff I had said to referees previously was uncalled for. I think you got to walk in their shoes to fully understand things. I may not always agree with the call on the field when I'm spectating just as some may not agree in my calls as well, but unless its getting to the point of someone getting injured or a fight about to occur, I keep my mouth shut now. I appreciate the input, and completely agree that no ref is going to be perfect or catch everything that happens or call everything correctly. But if they refuse to call obvious fouls where players- especially younger players- are getting hurt, and just letting that stuff go consistently to where one or both teams feel they can get away with over-the-line play, I'm just not OK with that. That's where tempers really start to flare, from players and coaches and parents, and games get out of control. And where the kids stop having fun, because they're worried about getting hurt, and they're confused by the lack of calls, and distracted by all the yelling. Most refs don't let games get to this point, but the ones that do should be held accountable in some way. |
|
|
|
Post by terimakasih12 on Oct 29, 2024 11:36:10 GMT -5
At this point and time as a referee myself, the only time I have an issue with another referee like at my kid's games is if they are letting the game get out of control to the point where there is about to be a fight or a player or players are about to seriously get injured. I can only think of 2x since I have been a referee where it was enough for me to just state hey you need to start giving out some cards (and I don't care on what team) to calm this game down or there is going to be a fight or someone seriously injured. They were both U16-U17 older boys games where tempers flare sometimes. I can't totally blame the center completely in those instances. He had some younger ARs helping and some of the more egregious stuff happened late and when he was turned away, but that is the job of the AR to catch and flag. Those two games were bad enough to even the coach of my kid's team was debating walking the team off the field. Otherwise I keep my mouth shut about referees, and try to educate the parents on why a call was made the way it was made if I can figure it out even when they didn't like it. I'll go ahead and tell on myself though, I was not always that way. It was only when my kid became a referee and then me a year or so later that I realized that some of the stuff I had said to referees previously was uncalled for. I think you got to walk in their shoes to fully understand things. I may not always agree with the call on the field when I'm spectating just as some may not agree in my calls as well, but unless its getting to the point of someone getting injured or a fight about to occur, I keep my mouth shut now. I appreciate the input, and completely agree that no ref is going to be perfect or catch everything that happens or call everything correctly. But if they refuse to call obvious fouls where players- especially younger players- are getting hurt, and just letting that stuff go consistently to where one or both teams feel they can get away with over-the-line play, I'm just not OK with that. That's where tempers really start to flare, from players and coaches and parents, and games get out of control. And where the kids stop having fun, because they're worried about getting hurt, and they're confused by the lack of calls, and distracted by all the yelling. Most refs don't let games get to this point, but the ones that do should be held accountable in some way. Maybe this is a stupid question, but do associations help refs improve or provide feedback on their “performance”? I remember I had an older mentor from the association when I was a ref that gave me pointers and feedback on my calls sometimes. It definitely made me want to do a good job knowing someone was watching. Does this sort of thing still happen? |
|
|
|
Post by mamadona on Oct 29, 2024 11:56:36 GMT -5
I appreciate the input, and completely agree that no ref is going to be perfect or catch everything that happens or call everything correctly. But if they refuse to call obvious fouls where players- especially younger players- are getting hurt, and just letting that stuff go consistently to where one or both teams feel they can get away with over-the-line play, I'm just not OK with that. That's where tempers really start to flare, from players and coaches and parents, and games get out of control. And where the kids stop having fun, because they're worried about getting hurt, and they're confused by the lack of calls, and distracted by all the yelling. Most refs don't let games get to this point, but the ones that do should be held accountable in some way. Maybe this is a stupid question, but do associations help refs improve or provide feedback on their “performance”? I remember I had an older mentor from the association when I was a ref that gave me pointers and feedback on my calls sometimes. It definitely made me want to do a good job knowing someone was watching. Does this sort of thing still happen? My daughter has started reffing, she only does AR so far, doesn't feel ready for center yet. This past weekend a referee mentor was watching all the games at our local soccer fields and he provided tips & feedback during and after games. Not really sure who he was but he seemed nice. It was through the Alpharetta & Roswell ref assignor. He told my daughter to stand closer during corners. He spoke more with the centers. |
|
|
|
Post by slickdaddy96 on Oct 29, 2024 11:57:59 GMT -5
I appreciate the input, and completely agree that no ref is going to be perfect or catch everything that happens or call everything correctly. But if they refuse to call obvious fouls where players- especially younger players- are getting hurt, and just letting that stuff go consistently to where one or both teams feel they can get away with over-the-line play, I'm just not OK with that. That's where tempers really start to flare, from players and coaches and parents, and games get out of control. And where the kids stop having fun, because they're worried about getting hurt, and they're confused by the lack of calls, and distracted by all the yelling. Most refs don't let games get to this point, but the ones that do should be held accountable in some way. Maybe this is a stupid question, but do associations help refs improve or provide feedback on their “performance”? I remember I had an older mentor from the association when I was a ref that gave me pointers and feedback on my calls sometimes. It definitely made me want to do a good job knowing someone was watching. Does this sort of thing still happen? I think most clubs do have an assignor or mentor or older referee watching younger referee games sometimes. I know the one I primarily referee at does. I would say I am an experienced referee now, and I think that I am pretty good at it at this point not to sound conceded or anything. I think also pairing newer referees as ARs to an experienced one like myself or my son where we have time to discuss during halftime and after the game helps to mentor younger ones as well. I will never turn down an observation from my fellow referees. I almost always ask at halftime or after the game did you see something I didn't. Did I miss anything etc.... Also feedback from coaches for particular bad game (like I describe or Bolo described above of it getting out of hand) would probably help the Assignor. I'm not talking about a coach just complaining about calls they didn't agree with, I mean in a game where the referee has absolutely lost control of the game which is rare to be honest in the games that I have spectated (and likely really never in any that I have officiated or watched my son officiate, we hand out cards early and often...LOL), that should be reported to the league and assignor to be investigated and see what actually happened and if the referee needs more training or mentoring or whatever. I will talk with my assignor about newer referees and give honest feedback to them about what they need to work on, or that they need to be watched a bit. We have had some referees that think it is a paycheck and don't really do well and don't care, and if older more experienced referees don't tell the assignor of the issues then they cannot weed out those bad ones (of course after attempting to fix their issues multiple times before not assigning them games anymore). There are bad referees or ones that don't care (normally teenagers). If they can't straighten up then they need to not get games, and the only way for assignors to know is for older referees to give feedback honestly. |
|
|
|
Post by triffling on Oct 30, 2024 10:11:33 GMT -5
How often is it? Well, for me I can count on one hand the number of weekends where I have not had to remove a parent or red card a coach as a referee or as a referee mentor and this includes games at all levels of youth play and ages in GA.
Most rules of competition ask referees to ask the coach to remove the parent. But given my age and experience as a referee, it’s far easier and less impactful to the game when I do it directly.
Whenever I do it, I make sure to discuss with my often younger ARs the behavior, why it’s unacceptable, how it adversely impacts the players, and how they can handle it given their relative inexperience and lack of presence - which is generally to direct a coach to remove the parent.
|
|
|
|
Post by triffling on Oct 30, 2024 10:23:44 GMT -5
I appreciate the input, and completely agree that no ref is going to be perfect or catch everything that happens or call everything correctly. But if they refuse to call obvious fouls where players- especially younger players- are getting hurt, and just letting that stuff go consistently to where one or both teams feel they can get away with over-the-line play, I'm just not OK with that. That's where tempers really start to flare, from players and coaches and parents, and games get out of control. And where the kids stop having fun, because they're worried about getting hurt, and they're confused by the lack of calls, and distracted by all the yelling. Most refs don't let games get to this point, but the ones that do should be held accountable in some way. Maybe this is a stupid question, but do associations help refs improve or provide feedback on their “performance”? I remember I had an older mentor from the association when I was a ref that gave me pointers and feedback on my calls sometimes. It definitely made me want to do a good job knowing someone was watching. Does this sort of thing still happen? Yes, many associations offer mentoring to young referees. Some do a better job than others and some of us also will stop and give feedback to referees even when we are not in an official capacity if it’s something that we know that can be used as a learning experience. For instance, I was watching a friend’s son’s team play and there was a head injury. The teen refs tried playing medical professional and evaluate the possible concussion (huge violation of US Soccer policies). After the game I approached them and made clear I was there as a supporter of one of the teams, that I was not going to question calls or outcomes, but that we needed to have a discussion about how they handled the head injury bc that’s a serious matter. These guys were great and very receptive to the discussion and now know how to handle similar situations in the future. |
|
|
|
Post by triffling on Oct 30, 2024 10:27:39 GMT -5
At this point and time as a referee myself, the only time I have an issue with another referee like at my kid's games is if they are letting the game get out of control to the point where there is about to be a fight or a player or players are about to seriously get injured. I can only think of 2x since I have been a referee where it was enough for me to just state hey you need to start giving out some cards (and I don't care on what team) to calm this game down or there is going to be a fight or someone seriously injured. They were both U16-U17 older boys games where tempers flare sometimes. I can't totally blame the center completely in those instances. He had some younger ARs helping and some of the more egregious stuff happened late and when he was turned away, but that is the job of the AR to catch and flag. Those two games were bad enough to even the coach of my kid's team was debating walking the team off the field. Otherwise I keep my mouth shut about referees, and try to educate the parents on why a call was made the way it was made if I can figure it out even when they didn't like it. I'll go ahead and tell on myself though, I was not always that way. It was only when my kid became a referee and then me a year or so later that I realized that some of the stuff I had said to referees previously was uncalled for. I think you got to walk in their shoes to fully understand things. I may not always agree with the call on the field when I'm spectating just as some may not agree in my calls as well, but unless its getting to the point of someone getting injured or a fight about to occur, I keep my mouth shut now. I appreciate the input, and completely agree that no ref is going to be perfect or catch everything that happens or call everything correctly. But if they refuse to call obvious fouls where players- especially younger players- are getting hurt, and just letting that stuff go consistently to where one or both teams feel they can get away with over-the-line play, I'm just not OK with that. That's where tempers really start to flare, from players and coaches and parents, and games get out of control. And where the kids stop having fun, because they're worried about getting hurt, and they're confused by the lack of calls, and distracted by all the yelling. Most refs don't let games get to this point, but the ones that do should be held accountable in some way. I’m sorry, but this is so wrong. First, do you know how many “obvious” fouls parents and coaches want called that are not fouls? And when parents start screaming it causes the players to react adversely. If you have concerns about the referee’s calls, let the coach handle it. You can also share video with the club. If the coach thinks the referee is not up to the task, the coach can pull his or her team off of the field. Just bc a player falls down doesn’t mean the player was fouled. |
|
|
|
Post by atlnoleg on Oct 30, 2024 11:01:02 GMT -5
It's amazing how easy it is to see objectively what's a foul, what's dangerous, what's just strong play, etc. when you are watching a game your kid isn't playing in. The parents on those sidelines look ridiculous whining and yelling at the refs. Then your kid's games starts and you become that parent. Then as soon as your game is over you walk past fields of parents acting up and roll your eyes.
|
|
|
|
Post by triffling on Oct 30, 2024 11:43:31 GMT -5
At this point and time as a referee myself, the only time I have an issue with another referee like at my kid's games is if they are letting the game get out of control to the point where there is about to be a fight or a player or players are about to seriously get injured. I can only think of 2x since I have been a referee where it was enough for me to just state hey you need to start giving out some cards (and I don't care on what team) to calm this game down or there is going to be a fight or someone seriously injured. They were both U16-U17 older boys games where tempers flare sometimes. I can't totally blame the center completely in those instances. He had some younger ARs helping and some of the more egregious stuff happened late and when he was turned away, but that is the job of the AR to catch and flag. Those two games were bad enough to even the coach of my kid's team was debating walking the team off the field. Otherwise I keep my mouth shut about referees, and try to educate the parents on why a call was made the way it was made if I can figure it out even when they didn't like it. I'll go ahead and tell on myself though, I was not always that way. It was only when my kid became a referee and then me a year or so later that I realized that some of the stuff I had said to referees previously was uncalled for. I think you got to walk in their shoes to fully understand things. I may not always agree with the call on the field when I'm spectating just as some may not agree in my calls as well, but unless its getting to the point of someone getting injured or a fight about to occur, I keep my mouth shut now. I appreciate the input, and completely agree that no ref is going to be perfect or catch everything that happens or call everything correctly. But if they refuse to call obvious fouls where players- especially younger players- are getting hurt, and just letting that stuff go consistently to where one or both teams feel they can get away with over-the-line play, I'm just not OK with that. That's where tempers really start to flare, from players and coaches and parents, and games get out of control. And where the kids stop having fun, because they're worried about getting hurt, and they're confused by the lack of calls, and distracted by all the yelling. Most refs don't let games get to this point, but the ones that do should be held accountable in some way. I’m sorry, but this is so wrong. First, do you know how many “obvious” fouls parents and coaches want called that are not fouls? And when parents start screaming it causes the players to react adversely. If you have concerns about the referee’s calls, let the coach handle it. You can also share video with the club. If the coach thinks the referee is not up to the task, the coach can pull his or her team off of the field. Counter to what most parents think, just bc a player falls down doesn’t mean the player was fouled. |
|
|
|
Post by slickdaddy96 on Oct 30, 2024 13:38:47 GMT -5
I appreciate the input, and completely agree that no ref is going to be perfect or catch everything that happens or call everything correctly. But if they refuse to call obvious fouls where players- especially younger players- are getting hurt, and just letting that stuff go consistently to where one or both teams feel they can get away with over-the-line play, I'm just not OK with that. That's where tempers really start to flare, from players and coaches and parents, and games get out of control. And where the kids stop having fun, because they're worried about getting hurt, and they're confused by the lack of calls, and distracted by all the yelling. Most refs don't let games get to this point, but the ones that do should be held accountable in some way. I’m sorry, but this is so wrong. First, do you know how many “obvious” fouls parents and coaches want called that are not fouls? And when parents start screaming it causes the players to react adversely. If you have concerns about the referee’s calls, let the coach handle it. You can also share video with the club. If the coach thinks the referee is not up to the task, the coach can pull his or her team off of the field. Counter to what most parents think, just bc a player falls down doesn’t mean the player was fouled. So your thought your comment was so good you posted it twice?  What exactly is wrong with either of our comments? You do realize that both myself and bolo are both referees (at least I think bolo is as well), and we are both commenting from a frame of mind of being a referee not a spectator. As I said in my comment I am a pretty experienced referee at this point, and I have only seen 2x games as a spectator since being a referee that were officiated so badly (the game got completely out of hand in an older teenage boys game in both instances), that I felt like either there was going to be a brawl on the field or someone was going to get a leg broken or get a knee injury from the fouls and over the top tackles that were happening in the games that were not getting carded and in some instances not even being called because the center didn't see them an the younger inexperienced ARs were not telling him what went on behind the play. This is 2 games out of probably 150-200 games I have watched my kids play in where the referee was out of his element. I already said that I generally don't say anything to a referee when spectating unless it gets to the point above, and even then it is just something like "you need to start handing out cards or this is going to get out of hand", and when I say that I don't care who he hands it out to (my kid's team or the other) he just needs to get control of the game. Do you not think both me and bolo know what a foul is and is not at this point even if spectating our own kid's games? I mean I officiate MLS next, NPL, ECNL level games here. I don't do that without actually being decent at it. For me to actually say something to a referee at this point, it has to be very very very bad. I would agree though in a normal observation standpoint most parents don't know what the heck they are talking about sometimes and are biased if they themselves are not a referee. |
|
|
|
Post by lajolla39 on Oct 30, 2024 13:50:32 GMT -5
One time in the middle of summer all our teams parents decided to sit on the sidelines in the blazing sun. I sat under a tree and off to the side.
The game was a friendly between 2 clubs that aren't in the same league so the result didn't matter. Right before the game 3 refs came over and asked if they could sit under the tree and if I'd watch their stuff so it wouldn't get messed with. I said sure + no problem.
At halftime the refs sat under the tree and started talking about all the crazy parents and players that they've had to ref for recently.
Huge eye opener. I had no idea that they heard almost everything people say on the sidelines. I also had no idea how many racist comments players say to each other on the fields in some of the top boys leagues.
|
|
|
|
Post by slickdaddy96 on Oct 30, 2024 14:06:33 GMT -5
One time in the middle of summer all our teams parents decided to sit on the sidelines in the blazing sun. I sat under a tree and off to the side. The game was a friendly between 2 clubs that aren't in the same league so the result didn't matter. Right before the game 3 refs came over and asked if they could sit under the tree and if I'd watch their stuff so it wouldn't get messed with. I said sure + no problem. At halftime the refs sat under the tree and started talking about all the crazy parents and players that they've had to ref for recently. Huge eye opener. I had no idea that they heard almost everything people say on the sidelines. I also had no idea how many racist comments players say to each other on the fields in some of the top boys leagues. I've gotten pretty good at the bad/curse words in Spanish at this point. I don't know why some players think that if they say it in another language they aren't going to get in trouble! |
|
|
|
Post by soccerloafer on Oct 31, 2024 14:18:59 GMT -5
As a lifelong referee, only three things caused me to get involved as a spectator. First was player safety. Second was point of fact law errors (wrong restart in a game critical situation). Third was consistent and obvious bias - which often leads back to player safety issues.
And yes, I got tossed from a few games. Oh well.
|
|
|
|
Post by blu on Oct 31, 2024 14:29:54 GMT -5
I saw a ref end a rec game at the state cup 2 years ago because the parents were being crazy, it was amazing. He tried to clear the sidelines and they told him to F off. He ended the game and the kids all cried and yelled at their parents, note this was U12 and they had traveled from south Georgia...
|
|
|
|
Post by triffling on Oct 31, 2024 16:48:52 GMT -5
I’m sorry, but this is so wrong. First, do you know how many “obvious” fouls parents and coaches want called that are not fouls? And when parents start screaming it causes the players to react adversely. If you have concerns about the referee’s calls, let the coach handle it. You can also share video with the club. If the coach thinks the referee is not up to the task, the coach can pull his or her team off of the field. Counter to what most parents think, just bc a player falls down doesn’t mean the player was fouled. So your thought your comment was so good you posted it twice? What exactly is wrong with either of our comments? You do realize that both myself and bolo are both referees (at least I think bolo is as well), and we are both commenting from a frame of mind of being a referee not a spectator. As I said in my comment I am a pretty experienced referee at this point, and I have only seen 2x games as a spectator since being a referee that were officiated so badly (the game got completely out of hand in an older teenage boys game in both instances), that I felt like either there was going to be a brawl on the field or someone was going to get a leg broken or get a knee injury from the fouls and over the top tackles that were happening in the games that were not getting carded and in some instances not even being called because the center didn't see them an the younger inexperienced ARs were not telling him what went on behind the play. This is 2 games out of probably 150-200 games I have watched my kids play in where the referee was out of his element. I already said that I generally don't say anything to a referee when spectating unless it gets to the point above, and even then it is just something like "you need to start handing out cards or this is going to get out of hand", and when I say that I don't care who he hands it out to (my kid's team or the other) he just needs to get control of the game. Do you not think both me and bolo know what a foul is and is not at this point even if spectating our own kid's games? I mean I officiate MLS next, NPL, ECNL level games here. I don't do that without actually being decent at it. For me to actually say something to a referee at this point, it has to be very very very bad. I would agree though in a normal observation standpoint most parents don't know what the heck they are talking about sometimes and are biased if they themselves are not a referee. The fact that you are referees is even more troubling that you would yell or otherwise interject your voice into the game as a parent. If you pulled that on a game I was reffing or observing, I would report you to the assignor and to the SRC. I have nearly 40 years of reffing as part of a lifetime on the pitch. I have never once yelled at a referee or the crew while they are working a game. And the only time I ever said anything as a coach was when a ref on a U8 game tried to force my player to take a contested drop ball after I had made it clear to my players and to the ref that we were not contesting the dropped ball. If you have a problem with a referee's performance, you know who the assignor is and you let them know. If it is a teen and you have some constructive feedback on things like how to blow the whistle effectively or if they are not applying a policy like US soccer's concussion policy, you can let them know in an unconfrontational manner after the game. But you should never ever approach or otherwise engage a referee as a parent who has an emotional attachment to the game the referee is officiating. Also, if you are going to toss your resume out there for credence, I have reffed all of the levels you have and higher including everything short of full MLS and national team games. |
|
What exactly is wrong with either of our comments?
