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Post by dreaddy on Jan 21, 2015 13:19:23 GMT -5
The Georgia Soccer AGM is on January 31st. Some interesting elections - both the President and VP-Youth have termed out so there will be new people in those positions. For the youth meeting, there are 41 rule change proposals. That has to be a record! Most of them are simple changes (capitalize "Home Team" in two different places, change the word "Linesman" to the proper term "Assistant Referee" are a couple examples) but there are some major changes as well. Removing the 50% playing time rule for older select players is one that might stir up some interest. Another that's really interesting is the proposal that players and coaches who are sent off don't have to sit a game until the D&P Committee tells them to. An interesting concept maybe, but it don't think FIFA allows that. here's the link to all of the changes. See if any others grab your interest: www.georgiasoccer.org/assets/970/15/Rule%20Change%20Proposals%20for%202015%20AGM.pdf |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jan 21, 2015 13:32:58 GMT -5
i do like the exclusion of u8 on rule 170.1d! would just make it more crazy. right now u8 is pretty relaxed..... not always, but its a good program and offers players early exposure to academy play vs playing recball. dreaddy, this might be elsewhere, but can you clarify the interpretation of rule 220.5, "all select program coaches and assistant coaches, shall receive registration card.." by the letter of the law, if a coach is not listed with a current team, are they not allowed to coach that team? i know of some out of state experiences, i think some posted here where a concorde coach wasn't allowed a team because there card to not have them listed as a coach. |
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Post by jack4343 on Jan 21, 2015 15:00:30 GMT -5
I am still reading but interesting that a proposed rule change will allow r9 Refs to be the center ref in any small sided game, select or rec. If I understand the current rule, a r9 ref could not be the center ref in any academy games or select games but only in rec games. Wonder if the shortage of experienced r8 refs has created this proposed change.
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Post by jack4343 on Jan 21, 2015 15:12:45 GMT -5
Interesting proposed change that now allows clubs to not have to use certified referees for in-house games. If I'm guessing correctly (and please correct me if I'm wrong on this as I'm not sure), this allows clubs to decide whether to use certified refs, linesmen, coaches or parents for in-house games. What I'm unsure about is the definition of an in-house game? Does this mean only rec games or does this also include academy select games where one club plays another branch of the same club? (i.e.: UFA Forsyth vs. UFA Norcross) Either way it looks like another change due to a ref shortage.
Existing Rule: Referees 230.6a
230.6a U-04 through U-08: Each member affiliate reserves the right to determine
whether to use certified referees, club linesmen, coaches or parents for in-house
games.
Rule w/ proposed change:
230.6a U-04 through U-08 U-19: Each member affiliate reserves the right to
determine whether to use certified referees, club linesmen, coaches or parents
for in-house games.
How the Rule would read after proposed change:
230.6a U-04 through U-19: Each member affiliate reserves the right to determine
whether to use certified referees, club linesmen, coaches or parents for in-house
games.
Rationale:
To allow member affiliate to best serve their games based on the referees
available.
Recommendation:
The Youth Rules Subcommittee finds no conflicts with this proposed change.
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Post by jash on Jan 21, 2015 15:15:24 GMT -5
Strongly dislike the change to remove the half-game requirement. Under the new rules (if passed) U-15 and older players could travel to a game and not set foot on the field a single time.
What are we running youth soccer for? What is the goal? This moves us closer to a pro model, and last time I looked we parents are paying a ton of money, and the kids are not being paid.
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Post by jash on Jan 21, 2015 15:20:35 GMT -5
Don't know much about Wade Rhodes from the Rapids Futbol Club but it sure looks like he doesn't trust the referees' judgment, based on several rule changes he requested. He also seems to have trouble separating legal action (law of the land) from the rules of a soccer organization. People commonly make this mistake with regards to 'freedom of speech' as well.
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Post by jack4343 on Jan 21, 2015 16:03:38 GMT -5
Don't know much about Wade Rhodes from the Rapids Futbol Club but it sure looks like he doesn't trust the referees' judgment, based on several rule changes he requested. He also seems to have trouble separating legal action (law of the land) from the rules of a soccer organization. People commonly make this mistake with regards to 'freedom of speech' as well. I agree with you. No reason to raise a suspension from yellows to 5 from it's current 3. His rationale really showed how he feels about refs! Wow! His comment "Punishing a player for receiving 3 cautions in a 10 game or more season is unrealistic and puts more control of the players participation in the hands of the referee instead of the coach and or the player." is nonsense. When it comes to punishment for misconduct during a game...it's a refs job alone. and as far as a ref controlling whether a player participates or not due to discipline, I'd argue that the player made that decision himself by his actions or the coach did with his coaching tactics...not the ref. Sounds to me like this club ambassador has a mighty big chip on his shoulder. |
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Post by dreaddy on Jan 21, 2015 16:28:38 GMT -5
jack4343 - Allowing R9's to ref any small sided games was done by USSF. Our change would be to play catch up with their rules. Allowing clubs to not have certified refs on in-house games is definitely due to the Georgia ref shortage. Academy games are not in-house. Any game where the teams are from different leagues is no longer an in-house game.
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Post by dreaddy on Jan 21, 2015 16:34:38 GMT -5
jash - I'm kind of neutral on removing the half game requirement. U15 and up, the kids are in HS and are already accustomed to knowing that they have no guarantee of playing time. Maybe the version that limits that to just Classic I and Athena A would be OK. Once the players get to Premier League and higher there are no guarantees of playing time at all, and they are paying a lot more money and traveling a lot further.
Incidentally, Georgia is the only state that still requires half a game for each player.
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Post by dreaddy on Jan 21, 2015 16:38:22 GMT -5
jash & jack - Wade Rhodes seems to be off the deep end to me. He obviously has problems with referees! For his red card proposals, this came up a few years ago as well. At the time the referee establishment pointed to a message from FIFA and one from USSF both of which basically say that if you get sent off, you have to sit the next game, period. If this rule passed we would be in violation of USSF's rules and who knows what problems that could cause.
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Post by jash on Jan 21, 2015 16:47:46 GMT -5
jash - I'm kind of neutral on removing the half game requirement. U15 and up, the kids are in HS and are already accustomed to knowing that they have no guarantee of playing time. Maybe the version that limits that to just Classic I and Athena A would be OK. Once the players get to Premier League and higher there are no guarantees of playing time at all, and they are paying a lot more money and traveling a lot further. Incidentally, Georgia is the only state that still requires half a game for each player. What percent of select players in Georgia make their high school teams? I'd bet it's fairly low, and lots of those players just want to play. I ask again though, what is the goal? If you have a Classic 3 team why is winning so important that you want a kid to sit on the sideline and watch? Classic 1, maybe.. but even then, I say if you chose them you should play them. This is not the pros, and it's not high school. Higher level leagues, like DA... well you know what you're getting into, and you're just a step away from being a pro at that point anyway. |
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Post by jash on Jan 21, 2015 16:48:50 GMT -5
jash & jack - Wade Rhodes seems to be off the deep end to me. He obviously has problems with referees! For his red card proposals, this came up a few years ago as well. At the time the referee establishment pointed to a message from FIFA and one from USSF both of which basically say that if you get sent off, you have to sit the next game, period. If this rule passed we would be in violation of USSF's rules and who knows what problems that could cause. It would be interesting to see whether he or his club routinely run afoul of these rules. Are suspensions and bans posted anywhere in an organized fashion? |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jan 21, 2015 18:19:31 GMT -5
Jash you can also look at their cards per game. Which does seem to be in the top 1/3, with a card almost every other game played.
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Post by jack4343 on Jan 22, 2015 8:40:06 GMT -5
Thanks for clarifying the proposed changes for me Dreaddy...insightful as always. My r9 ref daughter doesn't want to be a center yet as it's a pretty big step with a bunch of new responsibilities but it's good to know it's available to her when she's ready.
As far as the playing time requirement, I'd have to say I agree with Jash. Everyone that is selected on their club team should be allowed to play. I know it's competitive and coaches and parents want to win especially once it gets to u15 and above but it's still not high school ball and some people put way too much importance on whether their club wins or loses even at the lower levels of Athena or Classic. Of course not all coaches do that but isolated ones do exist and the rule stops them from acting on it. The argument that GA is the only state that has this rule doesn't really matter to me. I like it out here on our own little island. LOL
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Post by SoccerMom on Jan 22, 2015 9:43:53 GMT -5
jash - I'm kind of neutral on removing the half game requirement. U15 and up, the kids are in HS and are already accustomed to knowing that they have no guarantee of playing time. Maybe the version that limits that to just Classic I and Athena A would be OK. Once the players get to Premier League and higher there are no guarantees of playing time at all, and they are paying a lot more money and traveling a lot further. Incidentally, Georgia is the only state that still requires half a game for each player. What percent of select players in Georgia make their high school teams? I'd bet it's fairly low, and lots of those players just want to play. I ask again though, what is the goal? If you have a Classic 3 team why is winning so important that you want a kid to sit on the sideline and watch? Classic 1, maybe.. but even then, I say if you chose them you should play them. This is not the pros, and it's not high school. Higher level leagues, like DA... well you know what you're getting into, and you're just a step away from being a pro at that point anyway. Theres no guarantee playing time at tournaments either and parents pay extra $$ for those, I guess they can choose to go or not to go at that point. Also playing with high rostered teams invites this problem. Why are we the only state with this rule? |
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Post by jash on Jan 22, 2015 15:48:03 GMT -5
Theres no guarantee playing time at tournaments either and parents pay extra $$ for those, I guess they can choose to go or not to go at that point. Also playing with high rostered teams invites this problem. Why are we the only state with this rule? Most of the time tournaments (at least the payment) aren't optional, and I've never been a fan of that philosophy for tournaments either. I'm just not clear on why we insist on treating our youth sports like a professional league when 99% of these kids won't see a single scholarship dollar, and even those who do are highly unlikely to ever earn a single dollar as a professional player. I think it's a step in the wrong direction for youth sports, but I can see that the parents of players on super high-level teams might have a different perspective. Some people call the athena and classic levels "glorified rec". And as insulting as that initially sounds, maybe that really is fairly accurate, in a way. But it's organized, and you pay with similar-skilled players and against similar-skilled players, and you can get a lot out of it. Why change it to be so much less for some kids? |
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Post by Keeper on Jan 22, 2015 15:50:45 GMT -5
Ok heres a question in regards to playing time, what do other sports do?? What's the norm in youth sports? Baseball, basketball, football, hockey what do they say about playing time?
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Post by SoccerMom on Jan 22, 2015 15:54:52 GMT -5
Ok heres a question in regards to playing time, what do other sports do?? What's the norm in youth sports? Baseball, basketball, football, hockey what do they say about playing time? With baseball everyone plays...because its a rotation to bat and everyone goes out in the field. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jan 27, 2015 14:38:13 GMT -5
looks like a few new clubs looking for affiliations. are they intending to be clubs with an academy program and/or rec??
New Affiliates
The following applications for new affiliations have been received and will be voted upon at the General Council Meeting.
Atlanta City FC | YOUTH | Tucker, GA
Fellowship of Christian Athletes | YOUTH | East Point, GA
Fugees Soccer Club | YOUTH & ADULT | Scottdale, GA
Georgia Mountains YMCA | YOUTH | Gainesville, GA
Oglethorpe County Rec Dept. | YOUTH | Crawford, GA
Soccer Academy CFR Atlanta Inc. | YOUTH | Duluth, GA
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Post by dreaddy on Jan 27, 2015 15:23:06 GMT -5
New youth clubs are supposed to be rec only for the first year. On the other hand, for the past few years clubs have been asking for a waiver to this and most times it has been granted. Last year's SAGM was the first time that several applications were turned down, mostly for political reasons.
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Post by sidelinemama on Jan 27, 2015 15:44:22 GMT -5
That GA Mountains thing is getting confusing. Now there will be 3 clubs?
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Post by Keeper on Jan 27, 2015 15:57:03 GMT -5
looks like a few new clubs looking for affiliations. are they intending to be clubs with an academy program and/or rec?? New Affiliates The following applications for new affiliations have been received and will be voted upon at the General Council Meeting. Atlanta City FC | YOUTH | Tucker, GA Fellowship of Christian Athletes | YOUTH | East Point, GA Fugees Soccer Club | YOUTH & ADULT | Scottdale, GA Georgia Mountains YMCA | YOUTH | Gainesville, GA Oglethorpe County Rec Dept. | YOUTH | Crawford, GA Soccer Academy CFR Atlanta Inc. | YOUTH | Duluth, GA Anyone know anything about these clubs? We had a few Rias teams oaky Fugees this past fall but I know they had issues with fields and are probably becoming independent from another club. Atlanta City FC being out of Tucker and Soccer Acadmey CFR in Duluth should be interesting for this side of town. |
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Post by Keeper on Jan 31, 2015 14:12:36 GMT -5
Not sure who all was there today, but for my first experience at AGM that was fun. Definitely interesting hearing the reasoning for wanting these changes and the why some didn't.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jan 31, 2015 15:35:47 GMT -5
Would love to hear a summary. I've never been.
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Post by oldoldsocceradmin on Jan 31, 2015 18:00:56 GMT -5
way too much to simply summarize. all new clubs got voted in with no waivers, so only for recreation for year 1. The one waiver request was denied. A couple of lively debates about bylaws, a lot about changing the new affiliate member requirements was withdrawn b/c it wasn't going to pass. Several bylaw changes were pulled before a vote, but I'm not sure why. The bylaw about the Board of Directors not making new policies that conflict with existing rules passed. The big thing was the election. Susanne Conlon won easily over Eric Keller. As for youth rules. The big ones were about playing time and now coaches do not have to play Classic I or Athena A at U15 or older the half game. You also don't have a suspension until four yellow cards are given in a season. Compared to many AGMs and SAGMs, this one was pretty laid back but a long day.
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Post by newposter on Jan 31, 2015 18:08:13 GMT -5
Don't know much about Wade Rhodes from the Rapids Futbol Club but it sure looks like he doesn't trust the referees' judgment, based on several rule changes he requested. He also seems to have trouble separating legal action (law of the land) from the rules of a soccer organization. People commonly make this mistake with regards to 'freedom of speech' as well. |
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Post by newposter on Jan 31, 2015 18:09:57 GMT -5
At U15 playing time should not be guaranteed. That's the issue IMO with US soccer. The thought that BC I'm on the team I get to play BC parents pay money is obsurd. Earn your PT not buy it.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jan 31, 2015 18:26:02 GMT -5
way too much to simply summarize. all new clubs got voted in with no waivers, so only for recreation for year 1. The one waiver request was denied. A couple of lively debates about bylaws, a lot about changing the new affiliate member requirements was withdrawn b/c it wasn't going to pass. Several bylaw changes were pulled before a vote, but I'm not sure why. The bylaw about the Board of Directors not making new policies that conflict with existing rules passed. The big thing was the election. Susanne Conlon won easily over Eric Keller. As for youth rules. The big ones were about playing time and now coaches do not have to play Classic I or Athena A at U15 or older the half game. You also don't have a suspension until four yellow cards are given in a season. Compared to many AGMs and SAGMs, this one was pretty laid back but a long day. perfect summary!! thanks! |
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Post by jack4343 on Jan 31, 2015 19:27:52 GMT -5
At U15 playing time should not be guaranteed. That's the issue IMO with US soccer. The thought that BC I'm on the team I get to play BC parents pay money is obsurd. Earn your PT not buy it. I'd agree with you...if you were talking about professional soccer and not youth sports. The importance being placed on this is mind blowing to me. It really is. |
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Post by jash on Jan 31, 2015 19:59:55 GMT -5
At U15 playing time should not be guaranteed. That's the issue IMO with US soccer. The thought that BC I'm on the team I get to play BC parents pay money is obsurd. Earn your PT not buy it. I could not possibly disagree with you more. These are developmental leagues. There's plenty of wiggle room in the 'everyone should play half a game' to reward and incentivize as needed, assuming roster sizes are reasonable. The very top teams, like DA... go for it. Treat them like the pros that they almost are. The vast majority of kids playing organized soccer are playing for fun and competition and should play. To be honest, your attitude when applied to developmental leagues is a large part of what is wrong with all youth sports. |
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