|
Post by Futsal Gawdess on Nov 4, 2018 5:56:19 GMT -5
Trying to find out all the details but it seems there was some high drama Saturday at the CF vs UFA U14 DA game. So far what I know is this. With the game going back and forth, CF down already down a player and the game tied at 1-1, CF goes up by one on a goal that is called off not by the CR, or the AR on the half where the goal was scored, but by the AR on the other half. The coach for CF(Ryan) vehemently disagrees. So much so, he is tossed. Now CF has no-one to coach the team. He then proposes to have one of the regular academy coaches, finish coaching out the game. However, the UFA coach(Velko) protests and forces the Refs to resort to the DA rule book. Since there are no "official" assistant coaches listed or on site, CF has to forfeit the game. Game over.
- Should a coach get ejected for arguing a call or a goal? - Is the coach showing good sportsmanship or are they just showing their player they have their back? - Is there a point in arguing a call, when it can't be rescinded? - Should the non-DA, Academy coach be allowed to continue coaching the game in this situation?
...FG
|
|
|
Post by rifle on Nov 4, 2018 17:48:58 GMT -5
Nobody benefits except the coach and his team who all learned a hard lesson. If one man of a three man crew sees a foul and calls it, it’s a foul.
The sooner soccer adopts rugby type referee “respect” rules, the better.
|
|
|
Post by atlfutboldad on Nov 4, 2018 17:49:08 GMT -5
Another stupid DA rule, and it's a terrible ****ing rule.
Sounds like the way to mitigate is to put EVERY coach on the list. That way, whoever is present can take over. Circumventing the rules, good times.
|
|
|
Post by jash on Nov 4, 2018 18:23:46 GMT -5
However, the UFA coach(Velko) protests and forces the Refs to resort to the DA rule book. Since there are no "official" assistant coaches listed or on site, CF has to forfeit the game. Game over. I know DA is "big boy" soccer (not age of players, but level), so CF should have had this contingency covered.
But the sportsman in me says shame on UFA coach Velko for pushing for a forfeit. DA is an Academy and the goal is to train players. Having 22+ players not play part of a game over a technicality just so you can get the win is crappy.
Rules are rules, but if he hadn't pushed it it sounds like the ref would have let the players continue. Be better.
|
|
|
Post by thisonedude on Nov 4, 2018 19:52:54 GMT -5
The CF coach argued a silly point. The players missed 5 minutes of game time (game ended at minute 75). The forfeit has no impact. the game result is listed as a tie at this point with US soccer, and the U14s don't have a playoff or anything else their record will affect. "Drama" is probably the right term as, in the end, it was much ado about nothing.
CF learned something about the rules, players for both teams learned that the ref is the boss. Parents learned (maybe) yelling at the ref doesn't impact the outcome and makes them look silly.
|
|
|
Post by topdrawer on Nov 5, 2018 8:24:46 GMT -5
Simple situation. Concorde needs to invest in their coaches to have enough DA level coaches present, situations like this are then avoided completely. Should Ryan have been tossed, no, but that’s a separate issue.
Rules are rules. But contradicting my self here admittedly - this is youth soccer...
|
|
|
Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 5, 2018 9:22:46 GMT -5
Why was the goal called off?
And its hard way for a club to learn a lesson thats for sure, but at the end of the day the results at u13/u14 only matter that week, then they are forgotten. But the bigger question is why is Concorde sending out one coach to a DA game - This is what frustrates me more than anything, DA is a club based venture, not a coach based one -- These teams should all have multiple coaches and input from multiple coaches on players and tactics.
|
|
|
Post by SoccerMom on Nov 5, 2018 12:46:41 GMT -5
Why was the goal called off? And its hard way for a club to learn a lesson thats for sure, but at the end of the day the results at u13/u14 only matter that week, then they are forgotten. But the bigger question is why is Concorde sending out one coach to a DA game - This is what frustrates me more than anything, DA is a club based venture, not a coach based one -- These teams should all have multiple coaches and input from multiple coaches on players and tactics. The goal was called off because it hit the footbal goal...so it was already out. And for the coach to get tossed, it had to been a few times him getting warned or have said something pretty bad to them. Btw....I heard that after the coach was sent off a kid showed up with a CF shirt, he wasnt on the roster so they sent him away. Then another guy showed up said he was going to coach, and when the refs asked him his name he also wasn't on the roster. The refs at this point got fed up and called the hotline and explained the situation. They were told by USSF to end the game by forfeit. Also, DA coaches do get tossed out, I have seen it. And then when the federation gets the report they will issue an additional suspension on that coach depending on the report. Yes, there should have been more than one DA CF coach there, wasn't the whole club playing that day?
|
|
|
Post by thisonedude on Nov 5, 2018 15:48:11 GMT -5
My comment was that the forfeit had "no impact," not that the game did not matter. I chose my words carefully. The "no impact" comment was directed to the posters lamenting the loss of game time and "development" for the players. The game was ended 5 minutes early. The loss of development was pretty negligible at that point. The "forfeit" is still listed as a 1-1 tie on the US soccer DA website. If that changes, then I'll concede the point that ending the game early had an impact. At this point, it is listed as a tie, which seemed to be the correct result given that the ball went off the football crossbar and that CF did not have the ability to comply with the rules following a coach being dismissed. So, yeah. "No impact," not "doesn't matter."
I'm somewhat aware of high level soccer in Atlanta and the recruiting wars, power struggles, and resulting ego boosts parents get from their player's DA participation as the rosters squeeze from 7 clubs to 3 clubs at the U15 age group. Though, I might be naive...and I'll count that as a positive if it keeps me from behaving the way many parents along the fence behaved on Saturday.
Also, point of clarification, U15 is still allowed 7 substitutions allowing the entire game day roster of 18 to see the field. The depth advantage is no lost until U17 when it drops to 5 and remains at 5 for U19. Three "moments" for those subs, regardless, but that remains the same across the U15, U17, and U19 age groups.
Peace. Enjoy your kids' games this coming weekend.
|
|
|
Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 5, 2018 15:56:38 GMT -5
either way -- sounds like a competitive game and the two sides should get together for a scrimmage or 2
|
|
|
Post by thisonedude on Nov 5, 2018 16:03:02 GMT -5
...or another league game on 5/4/2019, with different officials. Imagine how all this drama will lead to the build up for that one!
|
|
|
Post by Futsal Gawdess on Nov 5, 2018 17:02:11 GMT -5
I bet there will be a bevy of authorized DA coaches on hand for that game
|
|
|
Post by soccerparent02 on Nov 5, 2018 18:29:17 GMT -5
Our kid doesn't play DA but in another high level alphabet league. We have 3 coaches at every game. I'd be upset if my kid played on a team that couldn't provide more than 1 coach especially at that "level".
|
|
|
Post by soccerballz on Nov 6, 2018 2:00:12 GMT -5
UFA parents say it hit football goal posts. All CF parents say it hit crossbar(this is what I saw). Amazing how the 2 see if differently. I saw what I saw they saw what they saw. Look forward to the match in Spring!
|
|
|
Post by thisonedude on Nov 6, 2018 7:29:16 GMT -5
The video will be interesting to watch.
|
|
|
Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 6, 2018 7:45:30 GMT -5
Somebody has to post the video clip when it's available.
|
|
|
Post by SoccerMom on Nov 6, 2018 8:15:46 GMT -5
UFA parents say it hit football goal posts. All CF parents say it hit crossbar(this is what I saw). Amazing how the 2 see if differently. I saw what I saw they saw what they saw. Look forward to the match in Spring! Well theres video so I guess when its processed we can all see. I wasn't there nor my kids play for either team I did hear from one of the parents that as the classy CF coach.left he flicked all the parents off. I hope the ref saw it and its all in the report. Wonder if we will hear what his suspension will be
|
|
|
Post by SoccerMom on Nov 6, 2018 8:20:36 GMT -5
Quick rule check says it doesn't matter if it hit the football goal post - the ball was never out and there was no whistle. The goal post is directly over the crossbar and touch line so ball never would have gone out anyway. Doesn't matter if the ball hits the ref, a moose, or a UFO - if it doesn't go out, there is no whistle, and there are no written ground rules covering it, the ball remains in play. It's just like when that ball went off the ref's head then straight to the net. And by the way, every UFA parent at the game that I talked to right as it was happening said it did NOT hit the goal post but went off the crossbar, so SoccerMom is the ONLY person out of 300 plus, including all the players, that saw it like that AR watching from another county. Video not out yet; if and when it does come out that last play will certainly be cut; the result is a 1-1 draw on the ussoccerda website, not a 3-0 forfeit. What does that tell you? thisonedude, thanks for correcting me! The AU 2005 team will still be a freight train at U-15 and it looks like the difference in the substitution rules will only slightly impact them. However, it would seem to make the CF-UFA competition for players even more intense. I don't say it, the parents from the UFA DA 05 team say it. I have yet to talk to someone that agrees with you. If the football post wasn't there, then it would have kept going out, the post just stopped it. I have seen many calls at Lanierland for the same reason. And 300 people watching the game?? 😂😂😂 Now I know you're really an exaggerator.
|
|
|
Post by crossbar on Nov 6, 2018 9:07:54 GMT -5
I don’t have a horse in this race, but I gotta say that the argument that the ball was still in play because the football crossbar, which is a couple feet above the goal, kept it in... That’s absurb.
A quick check of the rules? The laws of the game don’t explicitly account for a football crossbar hanging above the actual crossbar. And for good reason. You can’t account for every possible weird field configuration.
If a ball was headed out of bounds and a parent, coach, or player on the bench deflected it back in, would it remain in play? No. And keep in mind that this could be done without someone illegally entering the field of play because the ball has to entirely cross the line before it’s out.
And yeah, ARs frequently make calls that the ref didn’t see, so the lack of an initial whistle doesn’t matter. That’s like saying an offside call can’t invalidate a goal if the ref missed the flag and doesn’t blow the whistle before the ball enters the net.
I’ve seen a lot of games in fields like this, and every single time a ball hits the football goalposts it’s been called out. And for good reason. Clinging to an argument like this undermines your credibility. It either hit the football crossbar or it didn’t. If the ref missed it and the AR got it right, good. If the AR was mistaken, bummer. But at the end of the day, it’s still a little kids’ soccer game. People need to maintain perspective. Especially those in charge.
|
|
|
Post by SoccerMom on Nov 6, 2018 9:10:13 GMT -5
Just watched the video....and the 300 people that were there 😂😂😂😂 sounds like fake news to me.....
ANYWAY! The video clearly shows the free kick, then the UFA keeper deflects it and hits the FOOTBALL post. Ball then bounces back on the ground and the CF player hits in. Ball was out, call being a corner and not a goal is the right call.
|
|
|
Post by SoccerMom on Nov 6, 2018 9:13:49 GMT -5
Somebody has to post the video clip when it's available. Let me know how I can get to you, I dont know how to clip video and post it. Saw the red card call too...its hard to tell if it should have been or not because the parents are in the way. But the AR basically said the kid kicked him on the thigh, so must not have been clean like the CF said
|
|
|
Post by soccerloafer on Nov 6, 2018 10:32:52 GMT -5
High school rules - ball hits football uprights - out of play. Not sure how it is specifically applied in youth, but as a referee I would interpret it the same way unless given specific guidance otherwise by the competition rules.
|
|
|
Post by Futsal Gawdess on Nov 6, 2018 17:27:29 GMT -5
The real question for me is how with all the $$$ spend on Lanierland, they couldn't find a way to incorporate removing the Football goals or allowing them to have a hinge so you can drop them and remove them from the sphere of play with Soccer/Futbol? As has been noted here, 300+ folks saw the same play and came to two opposite conclusions. Especially since DA hasn't implemented VAR as of yet.
|
|
|
Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 6, 2018 17:33:46 GMT -5
Bam - ref should have drawn a rectangle in the air and gone to VAR!
Then Had the stream sports dude lower the boom and replay the play!
That would have been classic!
|
|
|
Post by rifle on Nov 6, 2018 21:38:17 GMT -5
Somebody has to post the video clip when it's available. Let me know how I can get to you, I dont know how to clip video and post it. Saw the red card call too...its hard to tell if it should have been or not because the parents are in the way. But the AR basically said the kid kicked him on the thigh, so must not have been clean like the CF said Upload to YouTube and post a link?
|
|
|
Post by SoccerMom on Nov 6, 2018 21:39:50 GMT -5
The real question for me is how with all the $$$ spend on Lanierland, they couldn't find a way to incorporate removing the Football goals or allowing them to have a hinge so you can drop them and remove them from the sphere of play with Soccer/Futbol? As has been noted here, 300+ folks saw the same play and came to two opposite conclusions. Especially since DA hasn't implemented VAR as of yet. There was not 300 people and everyone I talked to saw it the way the video showed it. The football post is above the soccer one and its not that big a deal. Ball was out end of story
|
|
|
Post by rifle on Nov 6, 2018 21:40:36 GMT -5
Quick rule check says it doesn't matter if it hit the football goal post - the ball was never out and there was no whistle. The goal post is directly over the crossbar and touch line so ball never would have gone out anyway. Doesn't matter if the ball hits the ref, a moose, or a UFO - if it doesn't go out, there is no whistle, and there are no written ground rules covering it, the ball remains in play. It's just like when that ball went off the ref's head then straight to the net. And by the way, every UFA parent at the game that I talked to right as it was happening said it did NOT hit the goal post but went off the crossbar, so SoccerMom is the ONLY person out of 300 plus, including all the players, that saw it like that AR watching from another county. Video not out yet; if and when it does come out that last play will certainly be cut; the result is a 1-1 draw on the ussoccerda website, not a 3-0 forfeit. What does that tell you? thisonedude, thanks for correcting me! The AU 2005 team will still be a freight train at U-15 and it looks like the difference in the substitution rules will only slightly impact them. However, it would seem to make the CF-UFA competition for players even more intense. This is an entertaining interpretation.
|
|
|
Post by SoccerMom on Nov 6, 2018 21:40:37 GMT -5
Let me know how I can get to you, I dont know how to clip video and post it. Saw the red card call too...its hard to tell if it should have been or not because the parents are in the way. But the AR basically said the kid kicked him on the thigh, so must not have been clean like the CF said Upload to YouTube and post a link? I have the whole game, and I dont really want to post it without the teams permission. Let me try to figure out how to clip it
|
|
|
Post by thisonedude on Nov 6, 2018 21:56:26 GMT -5
So...the AR who made the call from too far away to get anything correct got it correct? Unpossible!
|
|
|
Post by Futsal Gawdess on Nov 6, 2018 22:28:31 GMT -5
The real question for me is how with all the $$$ spend on Lanierland, they couldn't find a way to incorporate removing the Football goals or allowing them to have a hinge so you can drop them and remove them from the sphere of play with Soccer/Futbol? As has been noted here, 300+ folks saw the same play and came to two opposite conclusions. Especially since DA hasn't implemented VAR as of yet. There was not 300 people and everyone I talked to saw it the way the video showed it. The football post is above the soccer one and its not that big a deal. Ball was out end of story In regards to the 300 or was it 3000, next time, i'll remind myself to put the letters JK or a smiley face so "everyone" knows when i'm being facetious. Being that you are heavily invested in UFA, it's a safe bet to decipher that "everyone" you spoke to leans towards UFA. I will say for the record, I was not there but I got my information from UFA parents too. Having said all that, how in all that is decent in futbol can you say the football post being so close to the regular futbol goal is not that big a deal? Honestly, this post and all the comments has proven that it clearly is. It got a coach ejected and to some has re-galvanized the rivalry between two of the biggest clubs in Metro Atlanta. BTW that was not a facetious question, I'm genuinely curious if someone can explain to me how "its not that big a deal?" ...FG
|
|