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Post by ultimatedad on Nov 23, 2019 18:15:34 GMT -5
Wow. I believe this thread was started as an open letter to provide feedback to better these leagues. I did. So your argument is that's a "ME" problem instead and status quo is just fine... Go back and read the first post on this thread. And grow up, will you? I will grow up once YOU stop whining like a baby. YOU, aka the parent and contrary to what clubs may think, has full and complete control as to what YOU do with your child. If YOU can't find the pertinent information about a program, are not given answers to legitimate questions and YOU still feel it optimal to put your child into said program, then i'm sorry there pumpkin, that is definitely a YOU problem... nuf said |
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Post by ultimatedad on Nov 23, 2019 18:16:01 GMT -5
Wow that was crazy angry.
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Post by ultimatedad on Nov 23, 2019 18:39:46 GMT -5
Sccl should have some kind of promotion and relegation because the top teams are way too good and the bottom teams are way too bad and you have to play the same teams over and over again year after year. Why no promote the top teams to NPL and demote the bottom teams to a lower SCCl league like sccl 3. It would be the best thing for the players.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Nov 23, 2019 22:08:22 GMT -5
Wow that was crazy angry. Glad you pegged me, you know the "crazy angry woman" I actually expected a meme of some sort to really help me sell it... 😁😁😁 |
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Post by Keeper on Nov 24, 2019 0:00:47 GMT -5
Just curious when it comes to communication, is that a one or two way street? And is it only done with technology?
Love the bantering back and forth though!
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Post by atlutd17 on Nov 24, 2019 0:25:18 GMT -5
Sccl should have some kind of promotion and relegation because the top teams are way too good and the bottom teams are way too bad and you have to play the same teams over and over again year after year. Why no promote the top teams to NPL and demote the bottom teams to a lower SCCl league like sccl 3. It would be the best thing for the players. Good point and many will agree, however, that's not how a club based league like SCCL is designed to work. SCCL 3 might happen actually but for the same reason those teams won't be moving around either. NPL is club based also, not tied to SCCL and not superior just because they have couple strong NC clubs (but also some weaker ones than those in SCCL), or because SSA likes to send the theoretically better of the two teams there for their own reasons. Not exactly what UFA does with their Forsyth and Norcross teams and other branches. NTH SCCL on the girls appears better and clearly deeper than anyone else. |
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Post by ultimatedad on Nov 24, 2019 6:20:36 GMT -5
There has to be a way to swing it. All the leagues are run by us club soccer so maybe there is a way for the governing body to fix it. If not players and teams are bound to leave for better situations. Who wants to get stomped every week or on the other hand play way below your teams level? This will create a negative experience for the players. Hopefully the people that run the league will stop thinking about what is easiest for them and what is best for the kids.
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Post by threeoheight on Nov 24, 2019 10:13:01 GMT -5
There has to be a way to swing it. All the leagues are run by us club soccer so maybe there is a way for the governing body to fix it. If not players and teams are bound to leave for better situations. Who wants to get stomped every week or on the other hand play way below your teams level? This will create a negative experience for the players. Hopefully the people that run the league will stop thinking about what is easiest for them and what is best for the kids. Well said and to build on your post here's a stupid idea: invite all SCCL levels during a crossover weekend and strategically have teams play against each other to validate or adjust the level of play. So what if one club ends up with 2 teams in SCCL 1 or 2 ? It should all be about kids development, right? |
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Post by guest on Nov 24, 2019 14:02:17 GMT -5
There has to be a way to swing it. All the leagues are run by us club soccer so maybe there is a way for the governing body to fix it. If not players and teams are bound to leave for better situations. Who wants to get stomped every week or on the other hand play way below your teams level? This will create a negative experience for the players. Hopefully the people that run the league will stop thinking about what is easiest for them and what is best for the kids. Well said and to build on your post here's a stupid idea: invite all SCCL levels during a crossover weekend and strategically have teams play against each other to validate or adjust the level of play. So what if one club ends up with 2 teams in SCCL 1 or 2 ? It should all be about kids development, right? well I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. -US Club is the governing body and they only run club-centric leagues with no pro/rel (ECNL, NPL, SCCL and other similar state/regional leagues). There is no way they are going to step in and ‘fix it’. -Not sure about elsewhere but at our club, everyone tries out together. The top 18 go ECNL, the second 18 go SCCL, the third go SCCL-P and so on. So there is no question about whether the SCCL or SCCL-P team is better. -If an Athena A team gets stomped during the regular season, players are not going to wait for relegation. The better players will leave the club while the lower players either stay or go. Year over year there will constantly be changes due to player migration. -There really is no local ‘league’ office. It’s just Gregg, Drew and Iggy, right? They built this league as is and prob won’t add pro/rel unless it makes sense. -if you allow two teams in -1 or -P then you lose the ability to have day long club v club fixtures. This is one of the things that makes SCCL run so smoothly. Right now all Concorde plays all of UFA on a given Saturday, for example. OK there’s my soapbox, thank you for your opinions. Maybe in the future they will restructure SCCL and add pro/rel. but I don’t think it will be soon. |
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Post by SoccerMom on Nov 24, 2019 16:11:07 GMT -5
Sccl should have some kind of promotion and relegation because the top teams are way too good and the bottom teams are way too bad and you have to play the same teams over and over again year after year. Why no promote the top teams to NPL and demote the bottom teams to a lower SCCl league like sccl 3. It would be the best thing for the players. There is internal promotion/relegation within clubs |
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Post by threeoheight on Nov 24, 2019 17:13:04 GMT -5
Sccl should have some kind of promotion and relegation because the top teams are way too good and the bottom teams are way too bad and you have to play the same teams over and over again year after year. Why no promote the top teams to NPL and demote the bottom teams to a lower SCCl league like sccl 3. It would be the best thing for the players. There is internal promotion/relegation within clubs We already demonstrated earlier this is not true for the majority of the smaller clubs playing in these leagues (yes the ones with only one team in either league). So what's the path for the teams playing in a league too challenging or not challenging enough ? Basically there isn't and "move clubs" is the solution mentioned by some here (rollleyes). We can do better than that. |
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Post by SoccerMom on Nov 24, 2019 17:15:01 GMT -5
There is internal promotion/relegation within clubs We already demonstrated earlier this is not true for the majority of the smaller clubs playing in these leagues (yes the ones with only one team in either league). So what's the path for the teams playing in a league too challenging or not challenging enough ? Basically there isn't and "move clubs" is the solution mentioned by some here (rollleyes). We can do better than that. What club are you referring to? All GA teams except for AFU have 2 teams. So unless you're from out of town, I don't see the issue here |
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Post by threeoheight on Nov 24, 2019 17:34:36 GMT -5
We already demonstrated earlier this is not true for the majority of the smaller clubs playing in these leagues (yes the ones with only one team in either league). So what's the path for the teams playing in a league too challenging or not challenging enough ? Basically there isn't and "move clubs" is the solution mentioned by some here (rollleyes). We can do better than that. What club are you referring to? All GA teams except for AFU have 2 teams. So unless you're from out of town, I don't see the issue here I cannot make it clearer than this: Teams with presence in both leagues: UNITED FUTBOL ACADEMY GSA CONCORDE FIRE NTH NASA SOUTHERN SSA CHELSEA Teams with only one team: CAROLINA ELITE SA CESA (SCCL) VHSC STEAMERS BLACK (SCCL) BIRMINGHAM UNITED SA BUSA (SCCL) CAROLINA FC CFC ELITE (SCCL-P) ATLANTA FIRE UNITED SA (SCCL-P) GPS COASTAL ACADEMY (SCCL-P) COAST FA RED (SCCL-P) GPS LEXINGTON GOLD (SCCL-P) CAINHOY ATHLETIC CASC (SCCL-P) AUGUSTA ARSENAL SC (SCCL-P) CAINHOY ATHLETIC UNITED (SCCL-P) DANIEL ISLAND SA (SCCL-P) JIYSC RED (SCCL-P) UNITED MOUNT PLEASANT USA/M (SCCL-P) GA-SC BULLS (SCCL-P) GPS CAROLINA GPS NASA (SCCL-P) SOUTH CAROLINA UNITED FC (SCCL-P) So yes, we're out of town. LOL |
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Post by SoccerMom on Nov 24, 2019 18:21:59 GMT -5
What club are you referring to? All GA teams except for AFU have 2 teams. So unless you're from out of town, I don't see the issue here I cannot make it clearer than this: Teams with presence in both leagues: UNITED FUTBOL ACADEMY GSA CONCORDE FIRE NTH NASA SOUTHERN SSA CHELSEA Teams with only one team: CAROLINA ELITE SA CESA (SCCL) VHSC STEAMERS BLACK (SCCL) BIRMINGHAM UNITED SA BUSA (SCCL) CAROLINA FC CFC ELITE (SCCL-P) ATLANTA FIRE UNITED SA (SCCL-P) GPS COASTAL ACADEMY (SCCL-P) COAST FA RED (SCCL-P) GPS LEXINGTON GOLD (SCCL-P) CAINHOY ATHLETIC CASC (SCCL-P) AUGUSTA ARSENAL SC (SCCL-P) CAINHOY ATHLETIC UNITED (SCCL-P) DANIEL ISLAND SA (SCCL-P) JIYSC RED (SCCL-P) UNITED MOUNT PLEASANT USA/M (SCCL-P) GA-SC BULLS (SCCL-P) GPS CAROLINA GPS NASA (SCCL-P) SOUTH CAROLINA UNITED FC (SCCL-P) So yes, we're out of town. LOL Are you talking about the East bracket? Yes... you're definitely from out of town. So you want a whole new east bracket on regular SCCL? Or where would you like to be promoted to? The whole point of SCCL is limited travel, if you allow those teams in regular SCCL it kills that. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Nov 24, 2019 20:35:36 GMT -5
I cannot make it clearer than this: Teams with presence in both leagues: UNITED FUTBOL ACADEMY GSA CONCORDE FIRE NTH NASA SOUTHERN SSA CHELSEA Teams with only one team: CAROLINA ELITE SA CESA (SCCL) VHSC STEAMERS BLACK (SCCL) BIRMINGHAM UNITED SA BUSA (SCCL) CAROLINA FC CFC ELITE (SCCL-P) ATLANTA FIRE UNITED SA (SCCL-P) GPS COASTAL ACADEMY (SCCL-P) COAST FA RED (SCCL-P) GPS LEXINGTON GOLD (SCCL-P) CAINHOY ATHLETIC CASC (SCCL-P) AUGUSTA ARSENAL SC (SCCL-P) CAINHOY ATHLETIC UNITED (SCCL-P) DANIEL ISLAND SA (SCCL-P) JIYSC RED (SCCL-P) UNITED MOUNT PLEASANT USA/M (SCCL-P) GA-SC BULLS (SCCL-P) GPS CAROLINA GPS NASA (SCCL-P) SOUTH CAROLINA UNITED FC (SCCL-P) So yes, we're out of town. LOL Are you talking about the East bracket? Yes... you're definitely from out of town. So you want a whole new east bracket on regular SCCL? Or where would you like to be promoted to? The whole point of SCCL is limited travel, if you allow those teams in regular SCCL it kills that. One option would be to discuss with the other clubs whether they want an SCCL or SCCL-P team and then make an east bracket for SCCL and add VHSC, BUSA and CESA to SCCL-P for the west (if they all want it, that is). As a non-SCCL parent at a club with SCCL I follow this topic, but not in depth. It was my understanding that the clubs without one or the other (AFU aside) did not want SCCL or SCCL-P. Is this not true? |
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Post by guest on Nov 24, 2019 22:02:21 GMT -5
Just curious, where did all these SC teams play before SCCL-P? Was there an Athena type league? I admit I am not as knowledgeable about the eastern division of -P. Honestly I don’t know how this would have been presented to those teams/clubs. When we made the switch from R3PL to SCCL, there was a very thorough explanation period including offsite meetings, slideshows, Q&A with the DOC, etc.
I understand the big 5 plus AFU switching their Athena A teams over to -P. (AFU being kind of a late addition to the league and I could see them moving up as a club to -1).
SoccerMom is right about travel. In our year in SCCL, SSA and UFA finished bottom two. If we had pro/rel, they would have been moved down to -P. That would mean two SC teams would move up to -1. Now you have a league where we would have had two games in AL, three games in SC and only two in GA. Sounds a lot like R3PL and what everyone wanted to get away from.
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Post by ultimatedad on Nov 24, 2019 22:30:55 GMT -5
It would be like SRPL with bad teams. I see.
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Post by footyfan on Nov 25, 2019 6:13:25 GMT -5
Just curious, where did all these SC teams play before SCCL-P? Was there an Athena type league? I admit I am not as knowledgeable about the eastern division of -P. Honestly I don’t know how this would have been presented to those teams/clubs. When we made the switch from R3PL to SCCL, there was a very thorough explanation period including offsite meetings, slideshows, Q&A with the DOC, etc. I understand the big 5 plus AFU switching their Athena A teams over to -P. (AFU being kind of a late addition to the league and I could see them moving up as a club to -1). SoccerMom is right about travel. In our year in SCCL, SSA and UFA finished bottom two. If we had pro/rel, they would have been moved down to -P. That would mean two SC teams would move up to -1. Now you have a league where we would have had two games in AL, three games in SC and only two in GA. Sounds a lot like R3PL and what everyone wanted to get away from. As I understand it, the SC teams were in the state leagues. |
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Post by threeoheight on Nov 25, 2019 7:06:46 GMT -5
Are you talking about the East bracket? Yes... you're definitely from out of town. So you want a whole new east bracket on regular SCCL? Or where would you like to be promoted to? The whole point of SCCL is limited travel, if you allow those teams in regular SCCL it kills that. Maybe an east SCCL bracket would he best. Right now all I'm bringing up is the lack of official communication, especially with the rumors of more teams being added up. Let's not forget what "SCCL" stands for  |
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Post by threeoheight on Nov 25, 2019 7:08:45 GMT -5
Just curious, where did all these SC teams play before SCCL-P? Was there an Athena type league? I admit I am not as knowledgeable about the eastern division of -P. Honestly I don’t know how this would have been presented to those teams/clubs. When we made the switch from R3PL to SCCL, there was a very thorough explanation period including offsite meetings, slideshows, Q&A with the DOC, etc. I understand the big 5 plus AFU switching their Athena A teams over to -P. (AFU being kind of a late addition to the league and I could see them moving up as a club to -1). SoccerMom is right about travel. In our year in SCCL, SSA and UFA finished bottom two. If we had pro/rel, they would have been moved down to -P. That would mean two SC teams would move up to -1. Now you have a league where we would have had two games in AL, three games in SC and only two in GA. Sounds a lot like R3PL and what everyone wanted to get away from. As I understand it, the SC teams were in the state leagues. Correct, it's called the SCSCL and has 3 divisions (Open, PMSL and Challenge) |
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Post by threeoheight on Nov 25, 2019 9:14:52 GMT -5
Just curious, where did all these SC teams play before SCCL-P? Was there an Athena type league? I admit I am not as knowledgeable about the eastern division of -P. Honestly I don’t know how this would have been presented to those teams/clubs. When we made the switch from R3PL to SCCL, there was a very thorough explanation period including offsite meetings, slideshows, Q&A with the DOC, etc. I understand the big 5 plus AFU switching their Athena A teams over to -P. (AFU being kind of a late addition to the league and I could see them moving up as a club to -1). SoccerMom is right about travel. In our year in SCCL, SSA and UFA finished bottom two. If we had pro/rel, they would have been moved down to -P. That would mean two SC teams would move up to -1. Now you have a league where we would have had two games in AL, three games in SC and only two in GA. Sounds a lot like R3PL and what everyone wanted to get away from. Thank you for sharing. I am reading between the lines that the ATL clubs are not interested to move to pro/rel system in order to avoid the travel. |
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Post by footyfan on Nov 25, 2019 10:25:41 GMT -5
I just looked at the girls side of SCCL-P and there is only one club, South Carolina United, that fields a team in each age.
That made me want to check the boys side and I see there are only four clubs with a boys team at every age.
Also, it looks like some of the clubs that do have a full compliment of teams, or are close to it, have horrid records.
Given the above, it doesnt look like East has enough quality clubs in SCCL-P to warrant SCCL-1. Maybe if you qualified for promotion to SCCL-1 by team.... 😜
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Post by atv on Nov 25, 2019 12:24:30 GMT -5
As other posters have commented, I suspect the SCCL will be a league based on individual player pro/rel. At GSA this appears to already be going on, SCCL P -> SCCL -> ECNL. Player promotion seemed to be in place from mid season based on injuries and need. Relegation appears to be only during tryouts.
My suggestions for future improvements would be:
1.) SCCL is relabeled ECNL RL (Regional League)
2.) More player movement (pro/rel). The player pro/ rel I’ve witnessed mainly happened between SCCL to ECNL. I would like to see more mid season player relegation “down” ECNL-> SCCL-> SCCL P and “up” SCCL P -> SCCL -> ECNL. Individual players should be challenged to keep their spot and likewise players performing exceptionally well should be promoted “up”.
3.) Club pro/ rel. Probably a pipe dream but whole clubs should be the ones earning a spot in each league. Not individual teams that can turnover from year to year. Would have to tie into something like ECNL to do this but in my opinion that would be great.
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Post by footyfan on Nov 25, 2019 14:34:38 GMT -5
As other posters have commented, I suspect the SCCL will be a league based on individual player pro/rel. At GSA this appears to already be going on, SCCL P -> SCCL -> ECNL. Player promotion seemed to be in place from mid season based on injuries and need. Relegation appears to be only during tryouts. My suggestions for future improvements would be: 1.) SCCL is relabeled ECNL RL (Regional League) 2.) More player movement (pro/rel). The player pro/ rel I’ve witnessed mainly happened between SCCL to ECNL. I would like to see more mid season player relegation “down” ECNL-> SCCL-> SCCL P and “up” SCCL P -> SCCL -> ECNL. Individual players should be challenged to keep their spot and likewise players performing exceptionally well should be promoted “up”. 3.) Club pro/ rel. Probably a pipe dream but whole clubs should be the ones earning a spot in each league. Not individual teams that can turnover from year to year. Would have to tie into something like ECNL to do this but in my opinion that would be great. Tough to tell but looks like SCCL-P might be the highest level team for a bunch of those SCCL-P East teams. Also I'm not sure why anyone would relate SCCL with ECNL? That would just further muddy the waters. Am I missing a connection other than they are both sanctioned by US Club Soccer? |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Nov 25, 2019 16:59:47 GMT -5
As other posters have commented, I suspect the SCCL will be a league based on individual player pro/rel. At GSA this appears to already be going on, SCCL P -> SCCL -> ECNL. Player promotion seemed to be in place from mid season based on injuries and need. Relegation appears to be only during tryouts. My suggestions for future improvements would be: 1.) SCCL is relabeled ECNL RL (Regional League) 2.) More player movement (pro/rel). The player pro/ rel I’ve witnessed mainly happened between SCCL to ECNL. I would like to see more mid season player relegation “down” ECNL-> SCCL-> SCCL P and “up” SCCL P -> SCCL -> ECNL. Individual players should be challenged to keep their spot and likewise players performing exceptionally well should be promoted “up”. 3.) Club pro/ rel. Probably a pipe dream but whole clubs should be the ones earning a spot in each league. Not individual teams that can turnover from year to year. Would have to tie into something like ECNL to do this but in my opinion that would be great. Tough to tell but looks like SCCL-P might be the highest level team for a bunch of those SCCL-P East teams. Also I'm not sure why anyone would relate SCCL with ECNL? That would just further muddy the waters. Am I missing a connection other than they are both sanctioned by US Club Soccer? Many of the other areas of the country have something for the second teams at ECNL clubs called ECNL Regional league (ECNL RL). I have wondered why we have so many different options within US Club that are similar like NPL, SCCL, and ECNL RL. So for this region GSA 2nd is SCCL, UFA is NPL (based on their pyramid even though there are some NPL teams that aren't better than the SCCL team), CF is SCCL as second in the younger and third team in the older, AFU 2nd team is SCCL-P , SSA seems more location driven as does Tophat. It seems like a mess. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Nov 26, 2019 11:06:42 GMT -5
I agree that US Club should encourage members to being their leagues under ECRL or NPL. Will they? No, more leagues may equal more $ for more different people.
On the girls side in SC, some clubs have their top team in NL and some have their top team in SCCL-P (and possibly some in their challenge league). The east is a different animal than the west. 1 game per opponent, different clubs at every age group. I'd also be surprise if SCUFC was content to keep their 2nd team at a lower level league than CESA, even though both seem to struggle in their given leagues. It wouldn't surprise me if the SCCL-P east folded next year (though I have no intimate knowledge of the situation over there). None of that side seems to have bought in completely.
Soccer in SC seems to have even less organized than GA (TN seems fairly wacko also). A lot of that is due to participation in US Club leagues.
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Post by baller84 on Nov 27, 2019 22:15:41 GMT -5
Club based leagues like ECNL and SCCL are perfect leagues for the clubs, and great for the players when the teams on the field match up in level. Different conversation when they don't.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Dec 2, 2019 8:25:27 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing. I am reading between the lines that the ATL clubs are not interested to move to pro/rel system in order to avoid the travel. I know personally I'm not interested in traveling much for SCCL. We already have to travel 6-7 hours round trip for a 70 minute game in South Carolina. I'm not interested in further going into South Carolina to play games. If the East bracket of SCCL-P was smart they would get with club soccer and start their own Club Soccer based league with just you all in it. Occasionally have a crossover or tournament type weekend alternating between Atlanta and somewhere in South Carolina for a one-off weekend to keep a loose affiliation, but other than that I don't see a point in SCCL having an east bracket? It just doesn't make sense to me. That is coming from an Atlanta club perspective though. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Dec 2, 2019 11:34:00 GMT -5
Agreed, 100%. What does it buy them to be in a lower bracket of a league in which none of the clubs have a team in the higher bracket? If their neighbors at CESA win a bracket, they get an automatic spot in US Club National Cup, what would they see for winning? Additionally, they don't have the same format as the rest of SCCL (home-and-home). It buys those east teams nothing, and some clubs pulled their teams out of NL Piedmont and put them in this league and some are doing BOTH.
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Post by honeybadger on Dec 5, 2019 12:30:13 GMT -5
Ultimate dad, form your own league then.
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