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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 10, 2020 12:16:55 GMT -5
According to the CDC, at one of the peak days of death--April 18, there were about 16,000 Covid deaths. 5400 OVER 85; 4400 75-84; 3400 65-74; 2000 55-64; 1000 1-54 years old. 82% over 65 deaths Last week there were just over 2000 deaths with 800 85+; 575 75-84; 430 65-74; 285 55-64; 200 under 55. 90% over 65 deaths (7000 American's a;sp died that day but of NON-Covid related). Yes, let's shut it all down!!! www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#AgeAndSex. 9/11 - 2900 dead - "NEVER FORGET!"
Covid - 140k dead - "fuggettaboutit"
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Post by USoCcer on Jul 10, 2020 12:22:00 GMT -5
So I guess my question is this..
There seem to be two camps on this forum and I am certainly not trying to paint everyone with a broad brush. There seem to be those that say we shouldn't be playing soccer because a large number of people / children will be put at risk ( grandparents, parents, etc.) and there seem to be those that say we should forge ahead and try to play the soccer season and do the best we can to muddle through...
So are those people who are advocating for a shutdown, suspension or delay, why are you advocating for that? Do you feel uncomfortable having your child play soccer? If you are uncomfortable having your child play soccer, are you worried that soccer season will go on without you and your child and therefore they will be further behind?
And to that end, most school systems have announced re-opening plans that include digital learning options. For those of you looking at the numbers and seeing mass death, are you also electing to have your child distance learn in the coming year? Or are you sending them to school?
For the "let's all play soccer and get back to normal folks"...are you not the least bit concerned that your kid will get Covid from soccer practice and or games? Are you currently taking other precautions and not seeing grandparents or those with co-morbidities? Let's be realistic, once the kids are back in school, masks or not, the number of cases and 14 day soccer quarantines are going to go up and go up drastically.
I think at the end of the day each family needs to do what makes them comfortable. Whether that be get back on the pitch or take a year off from soccer. Everyone gets to make their own decision...Except for the lethal finisher with the sublime first touch on my daughters team. She has to play this year because we have championships to win.
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Post by humphry on Jul 10, 2020 12:26:46 GMT -5
Oracle, that is a well reasoned argument. You acknowledge data and then opine on it. Honestly, I think evidence of perm lung damage is not proven and simply a theory. Recall when they were saying that this was linked to kids w/ Kawasaki disease and were wrong? Whatever you want to say about car wrecks, the number of deaths and permanent injuries annually and in the future dwarf Covid. Life changing car wrecks aren't going any time soon and a 25 mph speed limit would eliminate almost all risk.
Perhaps the argument is that Covid is a one and done, so let's suck it up for a year. I don't agree, but that is an argument.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jul 10, 2020 12:34:54 GMT -5
I found it somewhat humorous that in my county they passed a mandatory mask ordinance, with the exception of your house, car, yard...or church? How does the logic on that one work?
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Post by humphry on Jul 10, 2020 12:37:19 GMT -5
According to the CDC, at one of the peak days of death--April 18, there were about 16,000 Covid deaths. 5400 OVER 85; 4400 75-84; 3400 65-74; 2000 55-64; 1000 1-54 years old. 82% over 65 deaths Last week there were just over 2000 deaths with 800 85+; 575 75-84; 430 65-74; 285 55-64; 200 under 55. 90% over 65 deaths (7000 American's a;sp died that day but of NON-Covid related). Yes, let's shut it all down!!! www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#AgeAndSex. 9/11 - 2900 dead - "NEVER FORGET!"
Covid - 140k dead - "fuggettaboutit"
When it comes to 9/11, we never forget bc, yes we lost lives, but it was an attack on American soil which was unprecedented and made us ALL feel at risk--not just people over 65 with co-morbidities. Every American feared they, their kids, their loved ones were vulnerable to another attack. If terrorists could knock down the twin towers, pentagon, etc., we had no idea what was coming next. In hindsight, every time I wait in a security line at Hartsfield, I really do wonder if the TSA response was really necessary. Fear led to the TSA compromise. Given the record flights over the years, Americans clearly have decided to live w/ the hassles of TSA. As for Covid, fear is leading to many other compromises and given the data coupled with the hypocricy of who can social gather (protest for the right cause) and who cannot (sports, restaurants, etc), it makes me wonder. In sum, I am not saying those with fear are insincere. What I am saying is that there are fear mongers out there creating fear notwithstanding the data which defeats the fear argument. |
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Post by bogan on Jul 10, 2020 12:40:37 GMT -5
So I guess my question is this.. There seem to be two camps on this forum and I am certainly not trying to paint everyone with a broad brush. There seem to be those that say we shouldn't be playing soccer because a large number of people / children will be put at risk ( grandparents, parents, etc.) and there seem to be those that say we should forge ahead and try to play the soccer season and do the best we can to muddle through... So are those people who are advocating for a shutdown, suspension or delay, why are you advocating for that? Do you feel uncomfortable having your child play soccer? If you are uncomfortable having your child play soccer, are you worried that soccer season will go on without you and your child and therefore they will be further behind? And to that end, most school systems have announced re-opening plans that include digital learning options. For those of you looking at the numbers and seeing mass death, are you also electing to have your child distance learn in the coming year? Or are you sending them to school? For the "let's all play soccer and get back to normal folks"...are you not the least bit concerned that your kid will get Covid from soccer practice and or games? Are you currently taking other precautions and not seeing grandparents or those with co-morbidities? Let's be realistic, once the kids are back in school, masks or not, the number of cases and 14 day soccer quarantines are going to go up and go up drastically. I think at the end of the day each family needs to do what makes them comfortable. Whether that be get back on the pitch or take a year off from soccer. Everyone gets to make their own decision...Except for the lethal finisher with the sublime first touch on my daughters team. She has to play this year because we have championships to win. I’m in camp 3: I want to have a soccer season but don’t believe it’s going to happen. Well, maybe a 3 match season so the clubs can justify keeping all the money... |
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Post by USoCcer on Jul 10, 2020 12:57:17 GMT -5
I found it somewhat humorous that in my county they passed a mandatory mask ordinance, with the exception of your house, car, yard...or church? How does the logic on that one work? The logic is certainly flawed...sounds like they were trying to appease both sides. But the whole mask ordinance is flawed as well. And I promise there is no political slant to this whatsoever as I don't wish to throw gas on the fire... Kemp's orders stipulate that any orders that are more restrictive than his are not valid and are unenforceable. So the whole mask mandate is invalid. If you put something out there, that someone must do, you have to be able to enforce it. Because if you can't enforce it..... |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 10, 2020 12:59:33 GMT -5
So I guess my question is this.. There seem to be two camps on this forum and I am certainly not trying to paint everyone with a broad brush. There seem to be those that say we shouldn't be playing soccer because a large number of people / children will be put at risk ( grandparents, parents, etc.) and there seem to be those that say we should forge ahead and try to play the soccer season and do the best we can to muddle through... So are those people who are advocating for a shutdown, suspension or delay, why are you advocating for that? Do you feel uncomfortable having your child play soccer? If you are uncomfortable having your child play soccer, are you worried that soccer season will go on without you and your child and therefore they will be further behind? And to that end, most school systems have announced re-opening plans that include digital learning options. For those of you looking at the numbers and seeing mass death, are you also electing to have your child distance learn in the coming year? Or are you sending them to school? For the "let's all play soccer and get back to normal folks"...are you not the least bit concerned that your kid will get Covid from soccer practice and or games? Are you currently taking other precautions and not seeing grandparents or those with co-morbidities? Let's be realistic, once the kids are back in school, masks or not, the number of cases and 14 day soccer quarantines are going to go up and go up drastically. I think at the end of the day each family needs to do what makes them comfortable. Whether that be get back on the pitch or take a year off from soccer. Everyone gets to make their own decision...Except for the lethal finisher with the sublime first touch on my daughters team. She has to play this year because we have championships to win. To be clear, my children are currently attending practice and will attend their school in person if it is available at the time. I am sad to see that some college kids won't get to play soccer and I hope my kids will. I am not advocating a shutdown. I am advocating clear guidelines, common sense and for our government to make those without common sense actually listen to mommy and daddy and the doctors and do what they are told. If we actually do things correctly then we have a better chance at having soccer and school in a mostly normal way. Here is my issue. I wear a mask whenever I am indoors and not with my own family or very close friends who I know behave like I do. My kids will wear masks to school even if it is not mandated. I am not afraid to get the virus or for my kids to get it any more than I am afraid of the flu. BUT I do not want to get it because I don't want to miss work or have my kids miss school or soccer. I also do not want to give it to anyone else, including my parents. I do not want someone to die, lose a loved one due to me. I do not believe that we will stop this virus without everyone being smart and doing what is right (wear a mask and don't go party with people) and I don't think that most people are doing this. It may run its course without a vaccine, but only if we are lucky and it mutates into something less aggressive. I think that everyone should wear a mask. I have been very, very disappointed and sad to see so many people who do not trust science and who are being so self-centered. My faith in human kindness and decency is pretty low right now. I am ashamed of how poorly America has done managing the virus and we look like a bunch of spoiled children to the rest of the world. To me wearing a mask is no more infringing upon your freedoms than asking you to not drink and drive or to wear a seat belt in the car or wear shirts and shoes in a store to be served. It really isn't that hard and it is a small sacrifice that gives us a better chance to actually do those things we want to do. |
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Post by USoCcer on Jul 10, 2020 13:00:06 GMT -5
According to the CDC, at one of the peak days of death--April 18, there were about 16,000 Covid deaths. 5400 OVER 85; 4400 75-84; 3400 65-74; 2000 55-64; 1000 1-54 years old. 82% over 65 deaths Last week there were just over 2000 deaths with 800 85+; 575 75-84; 430 65-74; 285 55-64; 200 under 55. 90% over 65 deaths (7000 American's a;sp died that day but of NON-Covid related). Yes, let's shut it all down!!! www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#AgeAndSex. 9/11 - 2900 dead - "NEVER FORGET!"
Covid - 140k dead - "fuggettaboutit"
So is your child going to attend school in person this fall or are you selecting the distance learning option? |
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Post by kidsocceruber on Jul 10, 2020 13:02:42 GMT -5
Much like car accidents, we should all try to avoid covid also...Just because we probably won't die from it doesn't mean we shouldn't try to avoid getting it...or buckling our seatbelts while driving.
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 10, 2020 13:17:56 GMT -5
9/11 - 2900 dead - "NEVER FORGET!"
Covid - 140k dead - "fuggettaboutit"
So is your child going to attend school in person this fall or are you selecting the distance learning option? I'm like what Oracle describes above. I want my kids to play and go back to school.. but also I just want everyone to stop being a self-centered shizathead and cooperate with common sense prevention.
I'd venture a guess that mask wearing around my house is at 30% in public on the BEST days.. as low as 10% most of the time. Seriously, it's not hard..
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 10, 2020 13:22:56 GMT -5
I found it somewhat humorous that in my county they passed a mandatory mask ordinance, with the exception of your house, car, yard...or church? How does the logic on that one work? The logic is certainly flawed...sounds like they were trying to appease both sides. But the whole mask ordinance is flawed as well. And I promise there is no political slant to this whatsoever as I don't wish to throw gas on the fire... Kemp's orders stipulate that any orders that are more restrictive than his are not valid and are unenforceable. So the whole mask mandate is invalid. If you put something out there, that someone must do, you have to be able to enforce it. Because if you can't enforce it..... Kemp is an idiot.
It's perfectly legal to mandate masks (see: Jacobson v. Massachusetts and more commentary here) and it doesn't stipulate that a county can't supercede a state.. otherwise it would be illegal to have things like dry counties.
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Post by mightydawg on Jul 10, 2020 13:26:37 GMT -5
Based upon CDC guidelines, it does not seem that the soccer season is really at risk. Here is what the CDC defines as close contact and who would need to quarantine in the event that they are around someone that tested positive.
Who needs to quarantine?
Anyone who has been in close contact with someone who has COVID-19.
This includes people who previously had COVID-19 and people who have taken a serologic (antibody) test and have antibodies to the virus.
What counts as close contact?
You were within 6 feet of someone who has COVID-19 for at least 15 minutes
You provided care at home to someone who is sick with COVID-19
You had direct physical contact with the person (touched, hugged, or kissed them)
You shared eating or drinking utensils
They sneezed, coughed, or somehow got respiratory droplets on you
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Post by USoCcer on Jul 10, 2020 13:26:43 GMT -5
So I guess my question is this.. There seem to be two camps on this forum and I am certainly not trying to paint everyone with a broad brush. There seem to be those that say we shouldn't be playing soccer because a large number of people / children will be put at risk ( grandparents, parents, etc.) and there seem to be those that say we should forge ahead and try to play the soccer season and do the best we can to muddle through... So are those people who are advocating for a shutdown, suspension or delay, why are you advocating for that? Do you feel uncomfortable having your child play soccer? If you are uncomfortable having your child play soccer, are you worried that soccer season will go on without you and your child and therefore they will be further behind? And to that end, most school systems have announced re-opening plans that include digital learning options. For those of you looking at the numbers and seeing mass death, are you also electing to have your child distance learn in the coming year? Or are you sending them to school? For the "let's all play soccer and get back to normal folks"...are you not the least bit concerned that your kid will get Covid from soccer practice and or games? Are you currently taking other precautions and not seeing grandparents or those with co-morbidities? Let's be realistic, once the kids are back in school, masks or not, the number of cases and 14 day soccer quarantines are going to go up and go up drastically. I think at the end of the day each family needs to do what makes them comfortable. Whether that be get back on the pitch or take a year off from soccer. Everyone gets to make their own decision...Except for the lethal finisher with the sublime first touch on my daughters team. She has to play this year because we have championships to win. To be clear, my children are currently attending practice and will attend their school in person if it is available at the time. I am sad to see that some college kids won't get to play soccer and I hope my kids will. I am not advocating a shutdown. I am advocating clear guidelines, common sense and for our government to make those without common sense actually listen to mommy and daddy and the doctors and do what they are told. If we actually do things correctly then we have a better chance at having soccer and school in a mostly normal way. Here is my issue. I wear a mask whenever I am indoors and not with my own family or very close friends who I know behave like I do. My kids will wear masks to school even if it is not mandated. I am not afraid to get the virus or for my kids to get it any more than I am afraid of the flu. BUT I do not want to get it because I don't want to miss work or have my kids miss school or soccer. I also do not want to give it to anyone else, including my parents. I do not want someone to die, lose a loved one due to me. I do not believe that we will stop this virus without everyone being smart and doing what is right (wear a mask and don't go party with people) and I don't think that most people are doing this. It may run its course without a vaccine, but only if we are lucky and it mutates into something less aggressive. I think that everyone should wear a mask. I have been very, very disappointed and sad to see so many people who do not trust science and who are being so self-centered. My faith in human kindness and decency is pretty low right now. I am ashamed of how poorly America has done managing the virus and we look like a bunch of spoiled children to the rest of the world. To me wearing a mask is no more infringing upon your freedoms than asking you to not drink and drive or to wear a seat belt in the car or wear shirts and shoes in a store to be served. It really isn't that hard and it is a small sacrifice that gives us a better chance to actually do those things we want to do. Thank you for the honest response. I appreciate it. You mention that you are ashamed of how poorly America has done managing the virus...If you were President or Governor, what would you do? The reason I ask is that I have seen things done in other countries that I don't believe would even come close to flying in the good ole U S of A. China forcing people off the streets and back into their homes. In Italy, people walking goats as pets because the only reason you were allowed to leave your house was for food, medical attention or to walk a pet. Anecdotally, my wife works for a Fortune 500 company. HQ is in New Jersey. Back when NY, NJ were Covid hotspots they were still planning on taking vacations and trying to find ways to skirt local laws. Guess where they were planning on going? Hilton Head, the Outer Banks, etc. They all had to change their travel plans to try and skirt quarantine laws put in place in southern states for people coming from the NE. NY and NJ were swimming in Covid at that time, but guess what? Come heck or high water, those folks were going on vacation. Even today, the coast of SC has been labeled a new hot spot because of all of the people on vacation. So what is solution? Ban vacations? I am not being a smart butt, I truly don't know the answer to the question...30 LSU football players were in quarantine because they went bar hopping. 25 Clemson players were in quarantine. To me, America isn't like any other country. We can't just shut people in their homes or only allow them out to food shop. That is fundamentally just not our way of life. If you require that people wear a mask, how do you enforce it? Tickets? Fines? Seems like our police force has enough going on at the moment to worry about people wearing masks at the Costco. |
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 10, 2020 13:27:15 GMT -5
Oracle, that is a well reasoned argument. You acknowledge data and then opine on it. Honestly, I think evidence of perm lung damage is not proven and simply a theory. Recall when they were saying that this was linked to kids w/ Kawasaki disease and were wrong? Whatever you want to say about car wrecks, the number of deaths and permanent injuries annually and in the future dwarf Covid. Life changing car wrecks aren't going any time soon and a 25 mph speed limit would eliminate almost all risk. Perhaps the argument is that Covid is a one and done, so let's suck it up for a year. I don't agree, but that is an argument.
You need to drive a car to get to work and get your kids to school and soccer and stuff (because we have no useful public trans here). So that's always been a weird comparison.. but whatever.
If you're arguing that you want to get back to normal and drive that car - are you willing to wear your proverbial seatbelt? If you are yelling about reopening, but unwilling to do the simplest thing to facilitate it (mask).. then there's some serious logical inconsistency there.
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 10, 2020 13:30:21 GMT -5
To be clear, my children are currently attending practice and will attend their school in person if it is available at the time. I am sad to see that some college kids won't get to play soccer and I hope my kids will. I am not advocating a shutdown. I am advocating clear guidelines, common sense and for our government to make those without common sense actually listen to mommy and daddy and the doctors and do what they are told. If we actually do things correctly then we have a better chance at having soccer and school in a mostly normal way. Here is my issue. I wear a mask whenever I am indoors and not with my own family or very close friends who I know behave like I do. My kids will wear masks to school even if it is not mandated. I am not afraid to get the virus or for my kids to get it any more than I am afraid of the flu. BUT I do not want to get it because I don't want to miss work or have my kids miss school or soccer. I also do not want to give it to anyone else, including my parents. I do not want someone to die, lose a loved one due to me. I do not believe that we will stop this virus without everyone being smart and doing what is right (wear a mask and don't go party with people) and I don't think that most people are doing this. It may run its course without a vaccine, but only if we are lucky and it mutates into something less aggressive. I think that everyone should wear a mask. I have been very, very disappointed and sad to see so many people who do not trust science and who are being so self-centered. My faith in human kindness and decency is pretty low right now. I am ashamed of how poorly America has done managing the virus and we look like a bunch of spoiled children to the rest of the world. To me wearing a mask is no more infringing upon your freedoms than asking you to not drink and drive or to wear a seat belt in the car or wear shirts and shoes in a store to be served. It really isn't that hard and it is a small sacrifice that gives us a better chance to actually do those things we want to do. Thank you for the honest response. I appreciate it. You mention that you are ashamed of how poorly America has done managing the virus...If you were President or Governor, what would you do? The reason I ask is that I have seen things done in other countries that I don't believe would even come close to flying in the good ole U S of A. China forcing people off the streets and back into their homes. In Italy, people walking goats as pets because the only reason you were allowed to leave your house was for food, medical attention or to walk a pet. Anecdotally, my wife works for a Fortune 500 company. HQ is in New Jersey. Back when NY, NJ were Covid hotspots they were still planning on taking vacations and trying to find ways to skirt local laws. Guess where they were planning on going? Hilton Head, the Outer Banks, etc. They all had to change their travel plans to try and skirt quarantine laws put in place in southern states for people coming from the NE. NY and NJ were swimming in Covid at that time, but guess what? Come heck or high water, those folks were going on vacation. Even today, the coast of SC has been labeled a new hot spot because of all of the people on vacation. So what is solution? Ban vacations? I am not being a smart butt, I truly don't know the answer to the question...30 LSU football players were in quarantine because they went bar hopping. 25 Clemson players were in quarantine. To me, America isn't like any other country. We can't just shut people in their homes or only allow them out to food shop. That is fundamentally just not our way of life. If you require that people wear a mask, how do you enforce it? Tickets? Fines? Seems like our police force has enough going on at the moment to worry about people wearing masks at the Costco.
I think you're spot on. But maybe that says more about what we've become as a society than anything else.
There sure seems to be a lot of 'screw you, not my problem' going around - and maybe that's a huge chunk of the problem.
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Post by ball2futbol on Jul 10, 2020 13:40:12 GMT -5
I think everyone is trying to avoid catching Covid... problem is just not enough people trying to avoid spreading Covid!
I will say, catching up on the last hour of post... each and everyone is making clear, reasonable and most important common sense points in their post! It almost made me forget that there's actually a "debate" about what the protocols on simple human decency!
For the record my kids are attending practices/training and plan to attend school this fall (with masks) as they've been doing while indoors Those decisions do and should have consequences... like not getting hugs and kisses from grandparents. For now those are the trade-offs and if and when those consequences outweigh the action then changes will be made.
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Post by USoCcer on Jul 10, 2020 13:41:11 GMT -5
The logic is certainly flawed...sounds like they were trying to appease both sides. But the whole mask ordinance is flawed as well. And I promise there is no political slant to this whatsoever as I don't wish to throw gas on the fire... Kemp's orders stipulate that any orders that are more restrictive than his are not valid and are unenforceable. So the whole mask mandate is invalid. If you put something out there, that someone must do, you have to be able to enforce it. Because if you can't enforce it..... Kemp is an idiot.
It's perfectly legal to mandate masks (see: Jacobson v. Massachusetts and more commentary here) and it doesn't stipulate that a county can't supercede a state.. otherwise it would be illegal to have things like dry counties.
I am certainly not a legal scholar nor do I want to be one. Every article (AJC, etc.) I have read states that the Kemp Administration would be well within their right to sue the county or municipality and the Kemp Administration would win. They just aren't going to pursue it because it would look bad. |
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 10, 2020 13:47:55 GMT -5
Kemp is an idiot.
It's perfectly legal to mandate masks (see: Jacobson v. Massachusetts and more commentary here) and it doesn't stipulate that a county can't supercede a state.. otherwise it would be illegal to have things like dry counties.
I am certainly not a legal scholar nor do I want to be one. Every article (AJC, etc.) I have read states that the Kemp Administration would be well within their right to sue the county or municipality and the Kemp Administration would win. They just aren't going to pursue it because it would look bad. Interesting. That seems to go against Jacobson.. but the law is full of nuance and weirdness. Looking now. |
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Post by sanesoccerdad on Jul 10, 2020 14:59:13 GMT -5
Attaway Sanesoccerdad. "Incorrect nonsense"? Really? NO facts. NO data. Just a typo attack? That's ALL you got? BRAVO my man, BRAVO. Since I'm wrong PLEASE counter w facts or data to prove I'm wrong. Go para by para--it should take you 5 minutes to share the counter data. Another note, GA has 2800 Covid death. Let's double it for the year and we hit 6000 --which we won't. Way more people are dying and getting maimed in car wrecks. WHY aren't you pushing for a 25 mph speed limit! I'll allow you the small victory of a response. You asked for data. In my post that you quoted, I literally started with this: www.ajc.com/news/coronavirus-georgia-covid-dashboard/jvoLBozRtBSVSNQDDAuZxH/The GA facts: Positive tests are still growing exponentially, percentage of tests showing positive is increasing, and hospitalizations have increased 250% in 30 days. UPDATE: Today set a record with 4484 new cases! WiNnINg! How you can believe that deaths (not to mention long term impacts on survivors) will not follow is a mystery to me. Maybe a greater percentage survive from now on as younger people get infected, but that's still a lot of suffering we could avoid. As for the nonsense about driving cars... lots of things kill more people than lots of other things. That doesn't make heart disease the only problem we should all be trying to solve together. That argument is just dumb. Yes, protests may have spread COVID (although most people did wear masks). No, that doesn't mean that COVID shouldn't be a public health concern. Does someone else's bad behavior ("hYpOCRisY!") justify your own? I'm sorry that CNN hurts your feelings, but this isn't really about them. Our country, essentially alone in the developed world, failed to control the rampant spread of this virus. Our kids will pay the price...with a missed soccer season, another virtual school year and no visits to grandparents. These are the facts. And yes... I'm pissed at people who couldn't take it seriously enough for a few more weeks or even to wear a dang mask, and who are now mad at the news for reporting it. FIN |
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Post by USoCcer on Jul 10, 2020 16:04:05 GMT -5
Attaway Sanesoccerdad. "Incorrect nonsense"? Really? NO facts. NO data. Just a typo attack? That's ALL you got? BRAVO my man, BRAVO. Since I'm wrong PLEASE counter w facts or data to prove I'm wrong. Go para by para--it should take you 5 minutes to share the counter data. Another note, GA has 2800 Covid death. Let's double it for the year and we hit 6000 --which we won't. Way more people are dying and getting maimed in car wrecks. WHY aren't you pushing for a 25 mph speed limit! I'll allow you the small victory of a response. You asked for data. In my post that you quoted, I literally started with this: www.ajc.com/news/coronavirus-georgia-covid-dashboard/jvoLBozRtBSVSNQDDAuZxH/The GA facts: Positive tests are still growing exponentially, percentage of tests showing positive is increasing, and hospitalizations have increased 250% in 30 days. UPDATE: Today set a record with 4484 new cases! WiNnINg! How you can believe that deaths (not to mention long term impacts on survivors) will not follow is a mystery to me. Maybe a greater percentage survive from now on as younger people get infected, but that's still a lot of suffering we could avoid. As for the nonsense about driving cars... lots of things kill more people than lots of other things. That doesn't make heart disease the only problem we should all be trying to solve together. That argument is just dumb. Yes, protests may have spread COVID (although most people did wear masks). No, that doesn't mean that COVID shouldn't be a public health concern. Does someone else's bad behavior ("hYpOCRisY!") justify your own? I'm sorry that CNN hurts your feelings, but this isn't really about them. Our country, essentially alone in the developed world, failed to control the rampant spread of this virus. Our kids will pay the price...with a missed soccer season, another virtual school year and no visits to grandparents. These are the facts. And yes... I'm pissed at people who couldn't take it seriously enough for a few more weeks or even to wear a dang mask, and who are now mad at the news for reporting it. FIN You certainly touched on a lot of subjects..... At the end of the day, isn't this all about how much risk each individual or family is willing to accept? And shouldn't they be allowed to accept or not accept the risk level that they are uncomfortable with? You may be correct, and deaths will rise or, they might not. There are advances being made each day in the treatment of this virus. Those who have chosen to respond to my questions about school earlier that all stated that they will send their kids to "in person" school in the fall. That is obviously a level of risk that people are willing to accept given the other options and other potential health issues for kids staying home. I do wish I knew more information about the lung damage that potentially can occur with Covid. While I believe it's true, I also believe that this virus acts in such a manner as "individual results will vary". Some people's immune systems overreact to the virus and others don't. Also their may be a link between severity of the virus and blood type. It's still being studied. But as a pro sports team owner, those contracts I have with my players are massive. I think players at that point are investments. That's why they can't skateboard or ride a motorcycle. Why would I want my star RB (running back, not right back) to play football, get Covid and then their lung damage be such that they can't rush for 1000 yards next year? I don't think anyone wants that. The pro sports team owners all have to know this. A disease could wipe out all pro sports teams if it's as bad as being made out to be. I can't think of a single owner who would want that. Gone are all future revenue streams. Some protesters did wear masks. Some social distanced and others didn't social distance or wear a mask. The ones on tops of the statues tearing them down certainly weren't. That's how they ID'ed them. It's just not about someone's bad behavior, it's not. It's about the hypocrisy (sorry I didn't use the kid slang for sarcasm). You can't take grandma to the beach because it's closed but yet, come on down to NYC and protest police brutality. Not one single person would be upset if protesters were told, "sorry folks, you can't protest today because the streets are closed due to coronavirus" At least the message would have been the same. But again, how much risk are you willing to accept? I will accept the risk of taking grandma to the beach just like the protesters were willing to accept the risk of protesting with a virus going around. You can't tell me one is safe and one isn't. Two wrongs don't make a right, but the same things have to be wrong. CNN and Fox News certainly do a good job of riling up the bases. Watch CNN for two hours and then switch to Fox for another two. You wouldn't know that we were living in the same country. The media certainly is playing a role in how riled up people are getting. And we've come full circle to the mask debate. You want people to wear a mask because it makes sense to you and you believe the science. Please remember that up until yesterday I don't know that there was a study done proving a masks effectiveness for the wearer. Now we are being told that wearing a mask protects the wearer up to 65%. That's a strong argument. But what about those people who it doesn't make sense to? Why should they be forced to succumb to your way of thinking? Because you are right? There are studies done that say you should eat chocolate, or drink wine, or exercise each day. Are they all right? How about someone who is alcoholic? Should they drink wine because of the health benefits? These arguments just aren't that simple. What you believe and what I believe may be completely different. Where we as a nation get into trouble is forcing people to do things because "we say so". And I'm not talking about the big things like murder, etc. I wear a mask when I can't social distance. But if others don't want to, that's on them. Me leaving the house everyday is a risk that I undertake. I can't control the person driving 70 in a 35 MPH zone not wearing a seatbelt. If they get caught, it's on them. If they don't, then I took the risk by leaving the house |
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Post by humphry on Jul 10, 2020 16:24:32 GMT -5
Sanesoccerdad--it's too bad you can't do a back/forth without degrading the conversation. You have to look at this stuff w/ a critical/analytical eye. If a large portion of the positive tests increase related to people under 50--which is the case-- it means very little. So, let's look at the article you have shared.
Hospitalizations have increased. Yes,I agree that is a concern. When I read they went up 250% to 1900, that raised my eyebrows as well as that is a concern. I then dug deeper and learned that hospitalizations at their peak in GA were back in April were at 1,500; they then dropped to 1000 and now are about 1900. So, from the peak they are up over 25%. I agree, that is not a good trend, but the 250% in the article is fear mongering and 25% is more informative. So, now let's look at when the numbers were at 1500 hospitalizations back on May 1. It took a little time for deaths and for parts of April/June the rolling average has been around 30 deaths/day. Again, 85% of the deaths were over 65 years old (and almost half over 80 years old). So, what the "250%" increase in hospitalizations means is that maybe 35-40 more deaths/day will occur in August. That said, with better treatment, I betcha it stays below 30. Again, is this sad. Yes. Do we stop the USA because of it. I say No.
What I think is very interesting is your belief that had the US handled this differently kids wouldn't have missed school, soccer etc. Try and put on your analytical glasses. CNN makes money with wars and hurricanes. Covid has been a 5 month long hurricane for CNN. Meanwhile, Democrats couldn't win when the economy was humming in February. Keeping the economy closed puts Biden in the white house--which I frankly don't have a problem with. Do you think just maybe they have an incentive to push fear and chaos through November? Even say 1%?
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Post by ball2futbol on Jul 10, 2020 16:49:23 GMT -5
Man this page went left, I mean right, I mean left/right real quick. Disregard the good "common sense" statement I made in my earlier post. I actually thought this thread was about kids safety. Guess some people just cant help themselves SMH!
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Post by soccer55 on Jul 10, 2020 17:14:54 GMT -5
Sanesoccerdad--it's too bad you can't do a back/forth without degrading the conversation. You have to look at this stuff w/ a critical/analytical eye. If a large portion of the positive tests increase related to people under 50--which is the case-- it means very little. So, let's look at the article you have shared. Hospitalizations have increased. Yes,I agree that is a concern. When I read they went up 250% to 1900, that raised my eyebrows as well as that is a concern. I then dug deeper and learned that hospitalizations at their peak in GA were back in April were at 1,500; they then dropped to 1000 and now are about 1900. So, from the peak they are up over 25%. I agree, that is not a good trend, but the 250% in the article is fear mongering and 25% is more informative. So, now let's look at when the numbers were at 1500 hospitalizations back on May 1. It took a little time for deaths and for parts of April/June the rolling average has been around 30 deaths/day. Again, 85% of the deaths were over 65 years old (and almost half over 80 years old). So, what the "250%" increase in hospitalizations means is that maybe 35-40 more deaths/day will occur in August. That said, with better treatment, I betcha it stays below 30. Again, is this sad. Yes. Do we stop the USA because of it. I say No. What I think is very interesting is your belief that had the US handled this differently kids wouldn't have missed school, soccer etc. Try and put on your analytical glasses. CNN makes money with wars and hurricanes. Covid has been a 5 month long hurricane for CNN. Meanwhile, Democrats couldn't win when the economy was humming in February. Keeping the economy closed puts Biden in the white house--which I frankly don't have a problem with. Do you think just maybe they have an incentive to push fear and chaos through November? Even say 1%? This is a well thought response. The last paragraph got a little too much "CNN is hyping this artificially" and not enough "Trump and his administration" couldn't have fumbled and created the world's worse response possible. If we had a President Obama or a President Romney we wouldn't be at this point and we would have been more unified in our response. My guess at the end of the day.. we would have a national "While inside public spaces" wear a mask when you can't be 10 feet from the next person. Play sports, go to school, be safe and be careful. Don't vacation as much this year.. and cases and death's would decrease. Everyone would bizatch and moan but way less people would be at each other's throats. |
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Post by bogan on Jul 10, 2020 17:27:06 GMT -5
Man this page went left, I mean right, I mean left/right real quick. Disregard the good "common sense" statement I made in my earlier post. I actually thought this thread was about kids safety. Guess some people just cant help themselves SMH! He he. Tennis match-serve and volley 🤣. |
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Post by mistercalcio on Jul 10, 2020 17:46:11 GMT -5
Sanesoccerdad--it's too bad you can't do a back/forth without degrading the conversation. You have to look at this stuff w/ a critical/analytical eye. If a large portion of the positive tests increase related to people under 50--which is the case-- it means very little. So, let's look at the article you have shared. Hospitalizations have increased. Yes,I agree that is a concern. When I read they went up 250% to 1900, that raised my eyebrows as well as that is a concern. I then dug deeper and learned that hospitalizations at their peak in GA were back in April were at 1,500; they then dropped to 1000 and now are about 1900. So, from the peak they are up over 25%. I agree, that is not a good trend, but the 250% in the article is fear mongering and 25% is more informative. So, now let's look at when the numbers were at 1500 hospitalizations back on May 1. It took a little time for deaths and for parts of April/June the rolling average has been around 30 deaths/day. Again, 85% of the deaths were over 65 years old (and almost half over 80 years old). So, what the "250%" increase in hospitalizations means is that maybe 35-40 more deaths/day will occur in August. That said, with better treatment, I betcha it stays below 30. Again, is this sad. Yes. Do we stop the USA because of it. I say No. What I think is very interesting is your belief that had the US handled this differently kids wouldn't have missed school, soccer etc. Try and put on your analytical glasses. CNN makes money with wars and hurricanes. Covid has been a 5 month long hurricane for CNN. Meanwhile, Democrats couldn't win when the economy was humming in February. Keeping the economy closed puts Biden in the white house--which I frankly don't have a problem with. Do you think just maybe they have an incentive to push fear and chaos through November? Even say 1%? You keep typing a lot but keep making the same arguments. People have pointed out that simply calculating deaths isn’t what this is all about. Your response to someone reminding (informing?) you that COVID can have extreme negative effects on lung capability and/or neurological processes was “I’m not sure I believe this is going to end up being true.” But, you know, some of the world’s leading epidemiologists and disease experts believe it’s true so maybe we should trust them over a honeybadger ghost account. Regardless of your political sensibilities, you’re basically claiming that epidemiologists, infectious disease experts, and biological scientists from multiple countries, continents, basically the world itself... are in on some sort of scam. |
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Post by bogan on Jul 10, 2020 17:54:31 GMT -5
Some of these posts make me feel like someone went away and came back under a different name. Nah! Nobody would do that.
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Post by mistercalcio on Jul 10, 2020 18:45:15 GMT -5
Some of these posts make me feel like someone went away and came back under a different name. Nah! Nobody would do that. Yep, seems like it to me as well. I ventured a guess as to whom in my previous post. |
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Post by sanesoccerdad on Jul 10, 2020 20:22:11 GMT -5
I’ll be glad to have a discussion, but I don’t want to waste time trying to prove that science is real and that everything isn’t CNN’s fault, as you seem to want to do.
You can pick whatever starting point you want to measure increase in hospitalizations - you want to take previous peak? Fine. Don’t think that’s intellectually honest, but you do you. I picked 30 days ago because that is when we went from decreasing to increasing cases, just as you would expect when we removed restrictions in May.
Science is so honest. I don’t care what channel you watch. Viruses spread when people breathe on each other. Of course masks help. Of course standing father apart helps. Duh!
The anti-science, “whataboutism” crowd (autos kill people too!) has screwed our country. That’s what angers me. Do you believe other countries are doing as badly as we are? Please provide data.
To answer the other questions - yes, I too am torn about school and soccer. At this rate I firmly believe we will have neither, but if we do I will likely bubble wrap my kid as much as possible and have them participate. If we had controlled the virus the risk would be lower and the people in my immediate family that are high risk if they catch the virus would be safer. We had dozens of proof points that it was possible - even from countries like Italy that were hit earlier than we were.
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Post by honeybadger on Jul 10, 2020 20:58:47 GMT -5
Everyone is talking about the numbers spiking. No one is follwoing up with the onbvious question: "What IF a person gets the virus?". The answer? For 99+% of cases, NOTHING any worse than the flu would do.
Here's the deal: if you don't want your kid out, I support you. But don't dictate to the rest of the country like Fauci tends to do.
And don't give me the story about someone dying-that's a cheap shot. That is truly horrible that some have died, but no one seems concerned when kids die from the flu-we still go to school, we still play sports, we still go to work. Yes, there is no vaccine yet. But most people don't take the flu vaccine either.
I bet more kids under 18 have died from the flu last season than have died from CV19.
And I go back to my own family-my uncle had it. The hospital did not test the other 4 members in his house and he was asymptomatic. But the hospital counted it as FIVE cases, not 1.
Now, this is MY opinion and as far as I know, I have the right to my opinion: if SOMEHOW the old man in the basement wins in November, magically COVID as a crisis will go away.
When Trump does win in November, this will be a crisis for 4 more years, the bubonic plague will be a crisis, the giant killer wasps will be a crisis and anything else that can be cooked up.
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