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Post by honeybadger on Jul 10, 2020 21:02:10 GMT -5
Sanesoccerdad--it's too bad you can't do a back/forth without degrading the conversation. You have to look at this stuff w/ a critical/analytical eye. If a large portion of the positive tests increase related to people under 50--which is the case-- it means very little. So, let's look at the article you have shared. Hospitalizations have increased. Yes,I agree that is a concern. When I read they went up 250% to 1900, that raised my eyebrows as well as that is a concern. I then dug deeper and learned that hospitalizations at their peak in GA were back in April were at 1,500; they then dropped to 1000 and now are about 1900. So, from the peak they are up over 25%. I agree, that is not a good trend, but the 250% in the article is fear mongering and 25% is more informative. So, now let's look at when the numbers were at 1500 hospitalizations back on May 1. It took a little time for deaths and for parts of April/June the rolling average has been around 30 deaths/day. Again, 85% of the deaths were over 65 years old (and almost half over 80 years old). So, what the "250%" increase in hospitalizations means is that maybe 35-40 more deaths/day will occur in August. That said, with better treatment, I betcha it stays below 30. Again, is this sad. Yes. Do we stop the USA because of it. I say No. What I think is very interesting is your belief that had the US handled this differently kids wouldn't have missed school, soccer etc. Try and put on your analytical glasses. CNN makes money with wars and hurricanes. Covid has been a 5 month long hurricane for CNN. Meanwhile, Democrats couldn't win when the economy was humming in February. Keeping the economy closed puts Biden in the white house--which I frankly don't have a problem with. Do you think just maybe they have an incentive to push fear and chaos through November? Even say 1%? You keep typing a lot but keep making the same arguments. People have pointed out that simply calculating deaths isn’t what this is all about. Your response to someone reminding (informing?) you that COVID can have extreme negative effects on lung capability and/or neurological processes was “I’m not sure I believe this is going to end up being true.” But, you know, some of the world’s leading epidemiologists and disease experts believe it’s true so maybe we should trust them over a honeybadger ghost account. Regardless of your political sensibilities, you’re basically claiming that epidemiologists, infectious disease experts, and biological scientists from multiple countries, continents, basically the world itself... are in on some sort of scam. That's too funny. So your MO is to take anyone who disagrees with you and lump them in as "a honeybadger ghost account". It's called, having a different opinion than you do. Get over yourself. |
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Post by sanesoccerdad on Jul 10, 2020 21:37:59 GMT -5
Hospitalizations have increased. Yes,I agree that is a concern. When I read they went up 250% to 1900, that raised my eyebrows as well as that is a concern. I then dug deeper and learned that hospitalizations at their peak in GA were back in April were at 1,500; they then dropped to 1000 and now are about 1900. So, from the peak they are up over 25%. I agree, that is not a good trend, but the 250% in the article is fear mongering and 25% is more informative. So, now let's look at when the numbers were at 1500 hospitalizations back on May 1. It took a little time for deaths and for parts of April/June the rolling average has been around 30 deaths/day. Again, 85% of the deaths were over 65 years old (and almost half over 80 years old). So, what the "250%" increase in hospitalizations means is that maybe 35-40 more deaths/day will occur in August. That said, with better treatment, I betcha it stays below 30. Again, is this sad. Yes. Do we stop the USA because of it. I say No. By the way, we are at 2,443 hospitalizations as of 7/10, a 63% increase over your low point of 1500. Facts do matter. www.ajc.com/news/coronavirus-georgia-covid-dashboard/jvoLBozRtBSVSNQDDAuZxH/ |
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Post by mistercalcio on Jul 10, 2020 22:33:31 GMT -5
You keep typing a lot but keep making the same arguments. People have pointed out that simply calculating deaths isn’t what this is all about. Your response to someone reminding (informing?) you that COVID can have extreme negative effects on lung capability and/or neurological processes was “I’m not sure I believe this is going to end up being true.” But, you know, some of the world’s leading epidemiologists and disease experts believe it’s true so maybe we should trust them over a honeybadger ghost account. Regardless of your political sensibilities, you’re basically claiming that epidemiologists, infectious disease experts, and biological scientists from multiple countries, continents, basically the world itself... are in on some sort of scam. That's too funny. So your MO is to take anyone who disagrees with you and lump them in as "a honeybadger ghost account". It's called, having a different opinion than you do. Get over yourself. Nope, you’ve just led the charge recently for opinions with little basis in science and those other posts sounded a lot like yours. If someone sounds like me, feel free to make the comparison. You’ve peeled the “flu-like” comparisons for months now and disregard the many of us who have expressed why that’s just simply... wrong? Not true? Not based in science? At this point, it’s just annoying. |
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 10, 2020 22:57:31 GMT -5
Now, this is MY opinion and as far as I know, I have the right to my opinion: if SOMEHOW the old man in the basement wins in November, magically COVID as a crisis will go away. When Trump does win in November, this will be a crisis for 4 more years, the bubonic plague will be a crisis, the giant killer wasps will be a crisis and anything else that can be cooked up.
I wonder where you'd get an idea like that... hmm.. maybe like the migrant caravan? The one teeming with criminals and sprinkled with ISIS terrorists? and *poof* right after midterms.. it just went away.
The difference is.. nobody died from the imaginary caravan.
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Post by footyfan on Jul 11, 2020 6:42:25 GMT -5
You keep typing a lot but keep making the same arguments. People have pointed out that simply calculating deaths isn’t what this is all about. Your response to someone reminding (informing?) you that COVID can have extreme negative effects on lung capability and/or neurological processes was “I’m not sure I believe this is going to end up being true.” But, you know, some of the world’s leading epidemiologists and disease experts believe it’s true so maybe we should trust them over a honeybadger ghost account. Regardless of your political sensibilities, you’re basically claiming that epidemiologists, infectious disease experts, and biological scientists from multiple countries, continents, basically the world itself... are in on some sort of scam. That's too funny. So your MO is to take anyone who disagrees with you and lump them in as "a honeybadger ghost account". It's called, having a different opinion than you do. Get over yourself. My kingdom for a mute button |
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Post by honeybadger on Jul 11, 2020 7:49:36 GMT -5
That's too funny. So your MO is to take anyone who disagrees with you and lump them in as "a honeybadger ghost account". It's called, having a different opinion than you do. Get over yourself. Nope, you’ve just led the charge recently for opinions with little basis in science and those other posts sounded a lot like yours. If someone sounds like me, feel free to make the comparison. You’ve peeled the “flu-like” comparisons for months now and disregard the many of us who have expressed why that’s just simply... wrong? Not true? Not based in science? At this point, it’s just annoying. From the CDC: "Since flu-associated deaths in children became a nationally notifiable condition in 2004, the total number of flu-associated deaths among children during one season has ranged from 37 (during the 2011-2012 season) to 186 (during the 2017-18 season, as of April 19, 2019); this excludes the 2009 pandemic, when 358 pediatric deaths from April 15, 2009 through October 2, 2010 were reported to CDC." You noticed the years 2009-2010? You know, the PANDEMIC under Obama? Was soccer cancelled? Was the country shutdown? Of course not. Again from CDC:U.S. Coronavirus Deaths by Age: 1-14: 26
, If you make it 1-24: 151Now, I may not be able to follow science, so I don't know what defined "children" in 2009-2010, so I'm using ages all the way up to 24 for CV19. And CV19 deaths are less than half of the 2009 pandemic. So yes, I will compare flu. Flu comes around yearly, and I assume CV19 will too. If you care about children, then surely you would agree that everything in 2009 should have been shutdown. My point is, don't show selective outrage. BTW, to say no one was killed in the "fake caravan" is laughable. And the reason it stopped? Other countries finally stepped up. Do you know who "faked" the caravan with donations from some of his non-profit groups? George Soros. The noted and big contributor to left wing causes. |
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Post by humphry on Jul 11, 2020 9:28:37 GMT -5
Although I don't agree w/ much that has been said, I have learned a bit from the discussion--even from Sane and I appreciate the back/forth.
I would leave it like this. In a country of 350,000,000 who lose 7500 each day or about 2,700,000 a year, I just don't get the philosophy of shutting down the entire USA for what will be on the top end 250,000 deaths--mostly of already very sick people over the age of 65 (and 50% over 80!). The numbers are also skewed bc NY and NJ lost around 40,000 more people than they should. I'm not saying let them die. What I am saying is that we know who gets sick, so we need to segregate and protect them! Not shut down the entire economy--it needs to be very very narrowly targeted! Think of this--whether we shut down for a day or 100 days, the vulnerable still need to be segregated and protected. That will not change. The virus will be out there no matter what until we get the vaccine.
I point to other deaths like car wrecks (and lung cancer deaths are 75,000 annually) because what makes this Covid "policy" decision so unique? Why don't we spend trillions to prevent those other deaths--e.g. ban smoking or make a 25 mph cap? Such policies literally would save millions of lives! I know we were all scared that there would be 2,000,000 deaths from Covid, but that was 100% wrong and it wasn't shelter in place which made that a fiction. Lung cancer is a way larger (75,000 deaths each year for 10 years bf and 10 years after this post) and way more expensive disease than Covid. Meanwhile, we are not counting the lives we are losing due to overdose/depression/etc. So when analyzing, add say 50,000 nonCovid deaths to the mix. And, ok maybe there are long term Covid issues related to lungs. Shutting down the economy also involves long term psych issues and financial ruin with great and real consequences. Why are we choosing the "maybe" some lung damage over these people?
Huge states like TX and FL may lose 10,000 people when it is all said and one. Ga may lose 5000. 99.9% of healthy people under 60 are not vulnerable and can work and / or go back to school. We haven't even confronted the economical tsunami we will face ---maybe add another 10 trillion in losses/deficits onto our $26 trillion debt (which we've added a couple trillion due to Covid this year)? Our kids will pay for it. In 5 or 10 years when interest rates go to 5 or 10%, the USA will not be able to pay for its debt and that debt will consume our budget. Lives will be ruined bc we decided to shut down 90% of the economy in 2020 to save 100,000 very sick people over 65 instead of doing a targeted approach. It truly seems insane to me. But, again, I enjoyed and appreciate all the insight and feeback--even if it did get a bit heated at times!
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Post by honeybadger on Jul 11, 2020 12:00:53 GMT -5
Although I don't agree w/ much that has been said, I have learned a bit from the discussion--even from Sane and I appreciate the back/forth. I would leave it like this. In a country of 350,000,000 who lose 7500 each day or about 2,700,000 a year, I just don't get the philosophy of shutting down the entire USA for what will be on the top end 250,000 deaths--mostly of already very sick people over the age of 65 (and 50% over 80!). The numbers are also skewed bc NY and NJ lost around 40,000 more people than they should. I'm not saying let them die. What I am saying is that we know who gets sick, so we need to segregate and protect them! Not shut down the entire economy--it needs to be very very narrowly targeted! Think of this--whether we shut down for a day or 100 days, the vulnerable still need to be segregated and protected. That will not change. The virus will be out there no matter what until we get the vaccine. I point to other deaths like car wrecks (and lung cancer deaths are 75,000 annually) because what makes this Covid "policy" decision so unique? Why don't we spend trillions to prevent those other deaths--e.g. ban smoking or make a 25 mph cap? Such policies literally would save millions of lives! I know we were all scared that there would be 2,000,000 deaths from Covid, but that was 100% wrong and it wasn't shelter in place which made that a fiction. Lung cancer is a way larger (75,000 deaths each year for 10 years bf and 10 years after this post) and way more expensive disease than Covid. Meanwhile, we are not counting the lives we are losing due to overdose/depression/etc. So when analyzing, add say 50,000 nonCovid deaths to the mix. And, ok maybe there are long term Covid issues related to lungs. Shutting down the economy also involves long term psych issues and financial ruin with great and real consequences. Why are we choosing the "maybe" some lung damage over these people? Huge states like TX and FL may lose 10,000 people when it is all said and one. Ga may lose 5000. 99.9% of healthy people under 60 are not vulnerable and can work and / or go back to school. We haven't even confronted the economical tsunami we will face ---maybe add another 10 trillion in losses/deficits onto our $26 trillion debt (which we've added a couple trillion due to Covid this year)? Our kids will pay for it. In 5 or 10 years when interest rates go to 5 or 10%, the USA will not be able to pay for its debt and that debt will consume our budget. Lives will be ruined bc we decided to shut down 90% of the economy in 2020 to save 100,000 very sick people over 65 instead of doing a targeted approach. It truly seems insane to me. But, again, I enjoyed and appreciate all the insight and feeback--even if it did get a bit heated at times! Exactly! That's all I'm pointing out. From the mile high view this is not about deaths, because if it were we'd be worrying about hundreds more things that we could all do to save lives. To the individual I can understand the concerns for deaths. However, we are going to economically wreck our country by keeping people scared to be in population (which will lead to increased alcoholism, suicide, murders, depression, obesity, mental disorders, lower immunity to this virus, worse health amongst kids who aren't out exercising, a lost year of academic learning, colleges losing sports teams leading to fewer opportunities for those who would like a sports scholarship, on and on and on). Even if the "science" is correct, shutting down will far and away outweigh the long term risks of going on as normal. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 11, 2020 12:24:16 GMT -5
Although I don't agree w/ much that has been said, I have learned a bit from the discussion--even from Sane and I appreciate the back/forth. I would leave it like this. In a country of 350,000,000 who lose 7500 each day or about 2,700,000 a year, I just don't get the philosophy of shutting down the entire USA for what will be on the top end 250,000 deaths--mostly of already very sick people over the age of 65 (and 50% over 80!). The numbers are also skewed bc NY and NJ lost around 40,000 more people than they should. I'm not saying let them die. What I am saying is that we know who gets sick, so we need to segregate and protect them! Not shut down the entire economy--it needs to be very very narrowly targeted! Think of this--whether we shut down for a day or 100 days, the vulnerable still need to be segregated and protected. That will not change. The virus will be out there no matter what until we get the vaccine. I point to other deaths like car wrecks (and lung cancer deaths are 75,000 annually) because what makes this Covid "policy" decision so unique? Why don't we spend trillions to prevent those other deaths--e.g. ban smoking or make a 25 mph cap? Such policies literally would save millions of lives! I know we were all scared that there would be 2,000,000 deaths from Covid, but that was 100% wrong and it wasn't shelter in place which made that a fiction. Lung cancer is a way larger (75,000 deaths each year for 10 years bf and 10 years after this post) and way more expensive disease than Covid. Meanwhile, we are not counting the lives we are losing due to overdose/depression/etc. So when analyzing, add say 50,000 nonCovid deaths to the mix. And, ok maybe there are long term Covid issues related to lungs. Shutting down the economy also involves long term psych issues and financial ruin with great and real consequences. Why are we choosing the "maybe" some lung damage over these people? Huge states like TX and FL may lose 10,000 people when it is all said and one. Ga may lose 5000. 99.9% of healthy people under 60 are not vulnerable and can work and / or go back to school. We haven't even confronted the economical tsunami we will face ---maybe add another 10 trillion in losses/deficits onto our $26 trillion debt (which we've added a couple trillion due to Covid this year)? Our kids will pay for it. In 5 or 10 years when interest rates go to 5 or 10%, the USA will not be able to pay for its debt and that debt will consume our budget. Lives will be ruined bc we decided to shut down 90% of the economy in 2020 to save 100,000 very sick people over 65 instead of doing a targeted approach. It truly seems insane to me. But, again, I enjoyed and appreciate all the insight and feeback--even if it did get a bit heated at times! Don't forget to add those people who are dying because the hospitals are overwhelmed numbers wise. Those are the uncounted deaths like your uncounted suicides/overdoses. Overwhelmed hospitals have docs and nurses that make errors that kill people. Overwhelmed hospitals and ambulance services can't save those car accidents that you enjoyed quoting earlier. How about the cancer patients delaying diagnosis and treatment due to the risk of contracting COVID? The deaths from overwhelming the hospitals with COVID patients are real and normal people (and kids) just like our families. I do not believe in another shutdown, but I do believe the shutdown helped spread out the outbreak and allow us time to build extra beds, learn how to better treat this virus. The shutdown saved many lives at the time and in the future (with allowing time to better treat). You all do need to learn and listen to the science. I agree that this virus is not as bad for the young as H1N1 was but it is worse over all. We also cannot sacrifice all of the over 65 population. We cannot cull the herd like that. Many of those people are still working, productive members of society as are many "very sick" people. Not only healthy people hold jobs. I know many doctors with cancer who still worked through a large portion of their treatments. Many docs, lawyers, business executives with COPD and heart disease and diabetes. Those people employ a lot of folks that they can't employ if they are dead. Not to mention how many lower income workers have all of those diseases too. Rational decisions need to be made like mask mandates. I think the school decisions with options for parents are good. In house or at home remote, give a choice because the kids ARE low risk. The teachers and other workers may or may not be and protections need to be in place for them. Soccer should go on as long as possible because it is good for the kids and OUTDOORS but I am not certain that basketball is as good of an idea. They spend a lot of time face to face breathing on each other indoors, way more than soccer. I am not sure there...hard to know, just guessing there. But if everyone on this forum wore a mask then they would be doing more to help their kids have a chance to play than complaining about the politics of those making recommendations and decisions. As for the question posed to me earlier about what the US should have done better...they should have used science instead of whims of politicians who don't know crap to make decisions. The shutdown was appropriate but should have been coupled with contact tracing and true quarantining of individuals that were exposed. They should have mandated masks as soon as it was known that it could help. They should have presented a united front to the public and our president and VP and all of our leaders should have set an example and worn masks as soon as it was known that it would help and not worried about the "appearances" of it. |
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Post by USoCcer on Jul 11, 2020 13:41:56 GMT -5
The logic is certainly flawed...sounds like they were trying to appease both sides. But the whole mask ordinance is flawed as well. And I promise there is no political slant to this whatsoever as I don't wish to throw gas on the fire... Kemp's orders stipulate that any orders that are more restrictive than his are not valid and are unenforceable. So the whole mask mandate is invalid. If you put something out there, that someone must do, you have to be able to enforce it. Because if you can't enforce it..... Kemp is an idiot.
It's perfectly legal to mandate masks (see: Jacobson v. Massachusetts and more commentary here) and it doesn't stipulate that a county can't supercede a state.. otherwise it would be illegal to have things like dry counties.
From the AJC today...Not saying that they are always correct. Certainly.... From there, the disintegration accelerated. Bottoms, who previously opposed a mask mandate, reversed her stance Wednesday and signed an order requiring them. Mostly silent on the spate of cities defying a statewide order, Kemp’s office suddenly announced they were “unenforceable” – and singled out Bottoms in the process. Then came Friday’s feud. Pointing to a series of new highs for coronavirus cases, Bottoms announced a return of new restrictions that calls for restaurants to shutter dining rooms, non-essential businesses to close their doors and a return of stay-at-home guidelines. “Georgia reopened in a reckless manner,” she said, “and the people of our city and state are suffering the consequences.” The Kemp administration’s response was swift. His office invoked the governor’s July order that blocks cities from taking more restrictive steps than the state, which has allowed restaurants to reopen if they follow safety guidelines and has steadily rolled back other limits. What’s next? Kemp could take court action against Atlanta and other cities that have defied his order, and analysts say he’s got firm legal grounding. But picking a fight with local leaders over masks sets up a tricky city-state battle at a time when coronavirus cases are soaring. |
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Post by bogan on Jul 11, 2020 13:56:07 GMT -5
Kemp is an idiot.
It's perfectly legal to mandate masks (see: Jacobson v. Massachusetts and more commentary here) and it doesn't stipulate that a county can't supercede a state.. otherwise it would be illegal to have things like dry counties.
From the AJC today...Not saying that they are always correct. Certainly.... From there, the disintegration accelerated. Bottoms, who previously opposed a mask mandate, reversed her stance Wednesday and signed an order requiring them. Mostly silent on the spate of cities defying a statewide order, Kemp’s office suddenly announced they were “unenforceable” – and singled out Bottoms in the process. Then came Friday’s feud. Pointing to a series of new highs for coronavirus cases, Bottoms announced a return of new restrictions that calls for restaurants to shutter dining rooms, non-essential businesses to close their doors and a return of stay-at-home guidelines. “Georgia reopened in a reckless manner,” she said, “and the people of our city and state are suffering the consequences.” The Kemp administration’s response was swift. His office invoked the governor’s July order that blocks cities from taking more restrictive steps than the state, which has allowed restaurants to reopen if they follow safety guidelines and has steadily rolled back other limits. What’s next? Kemp could take court action against Atlanta and other cities that have defied his order, and analysts say he’s got firm legal grounding. But picking a fight with local leaders over masks sets up a tricky city-state battle at a time when coronavirus cases are soaring. 🤦🏻♂️What a cluster... |
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Post by lsagoalie on Jul 11, 2020 15:38:00 GMT -5
I’m really hating this for all the rising senior, juniors and sophomores. big year of club ball with showcases that might not happen and then spring high school soccer in doubt with flu and other winter Illnesses confusing covid numbers. I believe the recruiting dead period will be extended until the end of year so those ecnl/GA/NL and tournament showcases will lose almost all meaning if the coaches can’t attend
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 11, 2020 15:46:55 GMT -5
Kemp is an idiot.
It's perfectly legal to mandate masks (see: Jacobson v. Massachusetts and more commentary here) and it doesn't stipulate that a county can't supercede a state.. otherwise it would be illegal to have things like dry counties.
From the AJC today...Not saying that they are always correct. Certainly.... From there, the disintegration accelerated. Bottoms, who previously opposed a mask mandate, reversed her stance Wednesday and signed an order requiring them. Mostly silent on the spate of cities defying a statewide order, Kemp’s office suddenly announced they were “unenforceable” – and singled out Bottoms in the process. Then came Friday’s feud. Pointing to a series of new highs for coronavirus cases, Bottoms announced a return of new restrictions that calls for restaurants to shutter dining rooms, non-essential businesses to close their doors and a return of stay-at-home guidelines. “Georgia reopened in a reckless manner,” she said, “and the people of our city and state are suffering the consequences.” The Kemp administration’s response was swift. His office invoked the governor’s July order that blocks cities from taking more restrictive steps than the state, which has allowed restaurants to reopen if they follow safety guidelines and has steadily rolled back other limits. What’s next? Kemp could take court action against Atlanta and other cities that have defied his order, and analysts say he’s got firm legal grounding. But picking a fight with local leaders over masks sets up a tricky city-state battle at a time when coronavirus cases are soaring. Interesting. It sounds like the restaurants and businesses are on solid ground, but doesn't make it clear about the mask mandate. Then again.. how long would it take to wind through the courts anyway? |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 11, 2020 16:52:36 GMT -5
I’m really hating this for all the rising senior, juniors and sophomores. big year of club ball with showcases that might not happen and then spring high school soccer in doubt with flu and other winter Illnesses confusing covid numbers. I believe the recruiting dead period will be extended until the end of year so those ecnl/GA/NL and tournament showcases will lose almost all meaning if the coaches can’t attend If the fall club season gets canceled I am not certain the high school season will be a great season anyway because all of the clubs will want to have spring and the showcases and games will happen during the spring. Clubs cannot refund all of their high school age player's fees and not go under. They will want to have a spring season and since many places in the country play their club in the spring it is doable. |
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Post by bogan on Jul 11, 2020 17:50:08 GMT -5
I’m really hating this for all the rising senior, juniors and sophomores. big year of club ball with showcases that might not happen and then spring high school soccer in doubt with flu and other winter Illnesses confusing covid numbers. I believe the recruiting dead period will be extended until the end of year so those ecnl/GA/NL and tournament showcases will lose almost all meaning if the coaches can’t attend If the fall club season gets canceled I am not certain the high school season will be a great season anyway because all of the clubs will want to have spring and the showcases and games will happen during the spring. Clubs cannot refund all of their high school age player's fees and not go under. They will want to have a spring season and since many places in the country play their club in the spring it is doable. I can see that happening as well. |
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Post by sanesoccerdad on Jul 11, 2020 18:29:13 GMT -5
Although I don't agree w/ much that has been said, I have learned a bit from the discussion--even from Sane and I appreciate the back/forth. I would leave it like this. In a country of 350,000,000 who lose 7500 each day or about 2,700,000 a year, I just don't get the philosophy of shutting down the entire USA for what will be on the top end 250,000 deaths--mostly of already very sick people over the age of 65 (and 50% over 80!). The numbers are also skewed bc NY and NJ lost around 40,000 more people than they should. I'm not saying let them die. What I am saying is that we know who gets sick, so we need to segregate and protect them! Not shut down the entire economy--it needs to be very very narrowly targeted! Think of this--whether we shut down for a day or 100 days, the vulnerable still need to be segregated and protected. That will not change. The virus will be out there no matter what until we get the vaccine. I point to other deaths like car wrecks (and lung cancer deaths are 75,000 annually) because what makes this Covid "policy" decision so unique? Why don't we spend trillions to prevent those other deaths--e.g. ban smoking or make a 25 mph cap? Such policies literally would save millions of lives! I know we were all scared that there would be 2,000,000 deaths from Covid, but that was 100% wrong and it wasn't shelter in place which made that a fiction. Lung cancer is a way larger (75,000 deaths each year for 10 years bf and 10 years after this post) and way more expensive disease than Covid. Meanwhile, we are not counting the lives we are losing due to overdose/depression/etc. So when analyzing, add say 50,000 nonCovid deaths to the mix. And, ok maybe there are long term Covid issues related to lungs. Shutting down the economy also involves long term psych issues and financial ruin with great and real consequences. Why are we choosing the "maybe" some lung damage over these people? Huge states like TX and FL may lose 10,000 people when it is all said and one. Ga may lose 5000. 99.9% of healthy people under 60 are not vulnerable and can work and / or go back to school. We haven't even confronted the economical tsunami we will face ---maybe add another 10 trillion in losses/deficits onto our $26 trillion debt (which we've added a couple trillion due to Covid this year)? Our kids will pay for it. In 5 or 10 years when interest rates go to 5 or 10%, the USA will not be able to pay for its debt and that debt will consume our budget. Lives will be ruined bc we decided to shut down 90% of the economy in 2020 to save 100,000 very sick people over 65 instead of doing a targeted approach. It truly seems insane to me. But, again, I enjoyed and appreciate all the insight and feeback--even if it did get a bit heated at times! Peace. I call a truce, and will admit that you hit a real nerve with me and I used an anonymous forum to vent. I don't disagree with your economic and social concerns. In fact, what makes me so passionate is that we were pretty close to achieving what Europe / Asia did and containing the virus, but we just couldn't hold on a few more weeks. Not only are we in a huge hole, all the pain we absorbed was more or less for nothing (maybe we have better treatments and more PPE). We flattened the curve only to let it go parabolic. All the diversions to other diseases, politics, etc avoids that hard truth, and I am frustrated by the what-about-ism and science denial that makes it ok not to wear a mask, not to stand 6 feet apart or to scream at a terrified shopkeeper that it is your constitutional right not to worry about someone else's health. I hope I am wrong about spiking hospitalizations, canceled seasons and school years. I really do. But I am having a conversation with my kid about how to achieve this season's development goals while not having formal team training... SAD! |
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Post by bogan on Jul 11, 2020 19:08:46 GMT -5
On the bright side, if we are not traveling to soccer games in the fall I just may get my shed fixed. Probably not... but #goals.
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Post by soccerloafer on Jul 11, 2020 22:17:14 GMT -5
"Don't forget to add those people who are dying because the hospitals are overwhelmed numbers wise."
This is a false statement. Elective surgeries were all cancelled, many others were afraid to go for needed treatment. You could hear the crickets chirping in most hospitals. Except for the Italian ER scene CBS kept airing as somewhere in the US...
"...and containing the virus, but we just couldn't hold on a few more weeks."
Bottoms is an idiot, as are most D mayors. By a few more weeks, you mean no mass protests that have triggered much of the resurgence? DeBlasio in NYC - no gatherings except BLM? Welding the gates shut on Jewish playgrounds? Talk about racist... And preventing the NYC trackers from asking about protest attendance to further a false narrative.
On another note, AU looked pretty shaky tonight.
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Post by rifle on Jul 11, 2020 22:35:26 GMT -5
Compelling conversation. More than 560k deaths worldwide. A quarter of them in USA.. which is home to under 5% of the world population.
In the words of Taylor Twellman... “What are we doing”?
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 11, 2020 23:24:04 GMT -5
"Don't forget to add those people who are dying because the hospitals are overwhelmed numbers wise." This is a false statement. Elective surgeries were all cancelled, many others were afraid to go for needed treatment. You could hear the crickets chirping in most hospitals. Except for the Italian ER scene CBS kept airing as somewhere in the US... "...and containing the virus, but we just couldn't hold on a few more weeks." Bottoms is an idiot, as are most D mayors. By a few more weeks, you mean no mass protests that have triggered much of the resurgence? DeBlasio in NYC - no gatherings except BLM? Welding the gates shut on Jewish playgrounds? Talk about racist... And preventing the NYC trackers from asking about protest attendance to further a false narrative. On another note, AU looked pretty shaky tonight. You don't know what you are talking about. Elective surgeries being canceled has nothing to do with deaths in the hospitals. If you want the ENT, ortho or OB/GYN who were twiddling their thumbs to take care of you in the ICU...be my guest! The ERs in many hospitals were and are currently overwhelmed. It depends on where you live and what the capacity is. It did not happen here but it did in New York and is currently happening in places in California and Florida. Besides the not going for needed treatment is part of the problem. As a physician with friends in these states I actually have heard the hell some of them went through and are going through. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jul 12, 2020 0:42:06 GMT -5
Just curious, any thoughts on the early application of inhaled steroids (in conjunction with antibiotics) that some are stating work well in early phases of the disease?
Another random question, in many cases hospitals turn away those with mild/moderate COVID symptoms...is that the same protocol with other known serious diseases/disorders? Eg cancer, heart disease, COPD, anaphylaxis, etc?
Just spitballing here. It seems like if everyone with symptoms was treated pretty early with standard protocol there might be better outcomes for all.
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Post by bogan on Jul 12, 2020 6:17:52 GMT -5
Just curious, any thoughts on the early application of inhaled steroids (in conjunction with antibiotics) that some are stating work well in early phases of the disease? Another random question, in many cases hospitals turn away those with mild/moderate COVID symptoms...is that the same protocol with other known serious diseases/disorders? Eg cancer, heart disease, COPD, anaphylaxis, etc? Just spitballing here. It seems like if everyone with symptoms was treated pretty early with standard protocol there might be better outcomes for all. Well, here’s the trouble with early treatment...you first have to be diagnosed with COVID...today is day seven for me and the test isn’t back yet. I’m feeling better but I was told that I had to get a diagnosis before I could be treated for anything (even a sinus infection) which I believe was my case. I’ve been miserable and locked away from everyone for a week now per doctors orders. I’m about to drive out of state to get a rapid test (none in my area) so that I can get my life back and have some sanity. In short-this whole thing sucks. And one last thing-the test hurts like hell to get. Much worse than a flu test. |
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Post by Lower90 on Jul 12, 2020 6:27:54 GMT -5
Just curious, any thoughts on the early application of inhaled steroids (in conjunction with antibiotics) that some are stating work well in early phases of the disease? Another random question, in many cases hospitals turn away those with mild/moderate COVID symptoms...is that the same protocol with other known serious diseases/disorders? Eg cancer, heart disease, COPD, anaphylaxis, etc? Just spitballing here. It seems like if everyone with symptoms was treated pretty early with standard protocol there might be better outcomes for all. Well, here’s the trouble with early treatment...you first have to be diagnosed with COVID...today is day seven for me and the test isn’t back yet. I’m feeling better but I was told that I had to get a diagnosis before I could be treated for anything (even a sinus infection) which I believe was my case. I’ve been miserable and locked away from everyone for a week now per doctors orders. I’m about to drive out of state to get a rapid test (none in my area) so that I can get my life back and have some sanity. In short-this whole thing sucks. And one last thing-the test hurts like hell to get. Much worse than a flu test. I came across this video of inhaled steroids. The entire interview is very interesting. |
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Post by bogan on Jul 12, 2020 6:47:04 GMT -5
Well, here’s the trouble with early treatment...you first have to be diagnosed with COVID...today is day seven for me and the test isn’t back yet. I’m feeling better but I was told that I had to get a diagnosis before I could be treated for anything (even a sinus infection) which I believe was my case. I’ve been miserable and locked away from everyone for a week now per doctors orders. I’m about to drive out of state to get a rapid test (none in my area) so that I can get my life back and have some sanity. In short-this whole thing sucks. And one last thing-the test hurts like hell to get. Much worse than a flu test. I came across this video of inhaled steroids. The entire interview is very interesting. I sent this to a doc (emergency room physician). He was skeptical-said that it may have some benefits but he doubts it is a silver bullet like the guy describes. But it would be great if it is. |
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Post by girlsoccer on Jul 12, 2020 7:37:03 GMT -5
Well, here’s the trouble with early treatment...you first have to be diagnosed with COVID...today is day seven for me and the test isn’t back yet. I’m feeling better but I was told that I had to get a diagnosis before I could be treated for anything (even a sinus infection) which I believe was my case. I’ve been miserable and locked away from everyone for a week now per doctors orders. I’m about to drive out of state to get a rapid test (none in my area) so that I can get my life back and have some sanity. In short-this whole thing sucks. And one last thing-the test hurts like hell to get. Much worse than a flu test. I came across this video of inhaled steroids. The entire interview is very interesting. This guy is a plastic surgeon who, as he said is heavily involved in politics and is an author. He is out for attention for himself. Pay him no attention. His claims are silly. |
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Post by rifle on Jul 12, 2020 8:01:48 GMT -5
Just curious, any thoughts on the early application of inhaled steroids (in conjunction with antibiotics) that some are stating work well in early phases of the disease? Another random question, in many cases hospitals turn away those with mild/moderate COVID symptoms...is that the same protocol with other known serious diseases/disorders? Eg cancer, heart disease, COPD, anaphylaxis, etc? Just spitballing here. It seems like if everyone with symptoms was treated pretty early with standard protocol there might be better outcomes for all. I suspect the apparently improved death rate (in the face of exponential spread of the virus) can be attributed to application of lessons learned since the start. Steroids or otherwise, scientific method will absolutely improve treatment plans. ..it also makes me wonder if this is baked into the numeric predictions that science deniers think are BS. |
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Post by rifle on Jul 12, 2020 8:11:26 GMT -5
I came across this video of inhaled steroids. The entire interview is very interesting. My kids had RSV and one has ongoing asthma issues (the physician won’t call it that in writing because US healthcare is a soup sandwich).. but inhaled bronchodilator or steroids seem like an obvious treatment for breathing difficulty... great if there is a combination that will beat this virus. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jul 12, 2020 10:29:07 GMT -5
I don't think it's a likely silver bullet either. I don't think it can hurt for combating early lung symptoms.
Man, RSV sucked. I think it made my kids more susceptible to chest colds for years.
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Post by soccerloafer on Jul 12, 2020 13:55:23 GMT -5
Treatment will be a cocktail of drugs, just like the middle days of the HIV crisis. (early days no one knew anything, middle days they threw everything at the symptoms to prolong life, now with HIV specific drugs)
Steroids for breathing, hydroxychloroquine and zinc for blood issues, and a Z-pak (antibiotic) for random infections.
If you are obese and diabetic, now would be a good time to make lifestyle changes to no longer be obese and diabetic. Not much medicine can help when you're body is already struggling to breathe and circulate blood before you get the virus...
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Post by footyfan on Jul 12, 2020 16:23:57 GMT -5
Treatment will be a cocktail of drugs, just like the middle days of the HIV crisis. (early days no one knew anything, middle days they threw everything at the symptoms to prolong life, now with HIV specific drugs) Steroids for breathing, hydroxychloroquine and zinc for blood issues, and a Z-pak (antibiotic) for random infections. If you are obese and diabetic, now would be a good time to make lifestyle changes to no longer be obese and diabetic. Not much medicine can help when you're body is already struggling to breathe and circulate blood before you get the virus... Forgive me if you stated this in another thread but are you a primary care doctor or do you have a specialty? |
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