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Post by atlfutboldad on Jul 16, 2020 16:37:10 GMT -5
Perhaps we could just have classes on youtube and tests online?
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Post by soccerloafer on Jul 16, 2020 18:13:37 GMT -5
No in person school is / will really affect the mental health of a LOT of kids. Mine are pretty normal, well adjusted kids (despite my rants on here from time to time) with good social networks. They are hurting and it's only going to get worse.
Two statistics to measure in the spring - increase in teen suicides and teen pregnancies.
Kids need to be back in school. Even when infected, their CFR (case fatality rate) is negligible. For healthy kids, 9 out of 10 times, it's like a bad flu. A couple of HS / college kids we know have been through it with no real issues. Pretty sure two of my kids had it in Jan / Feb before it became a thing. Let's get on with life.
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Post by footballer on Jul 16, 2020 21:05:17 GMT -5
I try to avoid responding to silly comments about this matter, yet I want to give my 2 cents:
First and foremost,I dont care who you vote for or whether you vote and btw it does not matter what your political views are, Im almost certain we all unanimously agree that US stategy for handling this covid situation has been dreadful. Much like our leadership in USSoccer, Our current head of state is clueless.
And then we have the brilliant idio#s amongst us in the general public that are screaming about jumping right into soccer with no plans, send kids back to school with no plans and everyone kumbayah like there is nothing to be concerned about, BUT YET, THEY REFUSE TO DO THE BARE MINIMUM AND WEAR A MASK WHEN IN PUBLIC.
Yes this lockdown and covid situation will affect people and kids after its all over. The earlier we get on the same page, the easier for us to find solutions.
Now that shizats hitting the fan the big boss in the white house is wearing a mask. Smh,
This video is a couple of weeks old but, it makes me think of some of the same frustrations within ussoccer. We need better leadership
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Post by kidsocceruber on Jul 16, 2020 22:04:41 GMT -5
No in person school is / will really affect the mental health of a LOT of kids. Mine are pretty normal, well adjusted kids (despite my rants on here from time to time) with good social networks. They are hurting and it's only going to get worse. Two statistics to measure in the spring - increase in teen suicides and teen pregnancies. Kids need to be back in school. Even when infected, their CFR (case fatality rate) is negligible. For healthy kids, 9 out of 10 times, it's like a bad flu. A couple of HS / college kids we know have been through it with no real issues. Pretty sure two of my kids had it in Jan / Feb before it became a thing. Let's get on with life. Just curious if you're ok if your child was that 10th out of 10 that it is worse than the bad flu? Or mine is ok? The line of thinking that "it's like a bad flu" being acceptable end result is flawed, especially if it's your child that's randomly affected by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even Chuck Woolery changed his tune when his son caught it(then deleted his Twitter account) I really want my kids to go back to school, but I'm not ok with one of my healtjy kids being that 10th out of 10 using this scenario, even if the odds are much worse than that. Insinuating teen suicide or pregnancy due to having to school from home could be the next fear mongering TV ad for President. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Jul 17, 2020 6:29:57 GMT -5
"Insinuating teen suicide or pregnancy due to having to school from home could be the next fear mongering TV ad for President."
It's not fear mongering, not political at all, just an educated assessment. Check back in 6 months and see how it turned out.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jul 17, 2020 6:58:12 GMT -5
No in person school is / will really affect the mental health of a LOT of kids. Mine are pretty normal, well adjusted kids (despite my rants on here from time to time) with good social networks. They are hurting and it's only going to get worse. Two statistics to measure in the spring - increase in teen suicides and teen pregnancies. Kids need to be back in school. Even when infected, their CFR (case fatality rate) is negligible. For healthy kids, 9 out of 10 times, it's like a bad flu. A couple of HS / college kids we know have been through it with no real issues. Pretty sure two of my kids had it in Jan / Feb before it became a thing. Let's get on with life. Just curious if you're ok if your child was that 10th out of 10 that it is worse than the bad flu? Or mine is ok? The line of thinking that "it's like a bad flu" being acceptable end result is flawed, especially if it's your child that's randomly affected by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even Chuck Woolery changed his tune when his son caught it(then deleted his Twitter account) I really want my kids to go back to school, but I'm not ok with one of my healtjy kids being that 10th out of 10 using this scenario, even if the odds are much worse than that. Insinuating teen suicide or pregnancy due to having to school from home could be the next fear mongering TV ad for President. If you look at the stats of hospitalization in kids as well it isn't that high for them either. I don't think it is a 9 out of 10 or 10 out of 10 scenario. For Mortality it is more like a 1 in 9,000 or 10,000 situation and I would imagine the hospitalization is more like a 1 in a 1000-3000 range. I haven't done the math on the hospitalization one but I think that is the ball park most likely. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jul 17, 2020 6:59:36 GMT -5
I try to avoid responding to silly comments about this matter, yet I want to give my 2 cents: First and foremost,I dont care who you vote for or whether you vote and btw it does not matter what your political views are, Im almost certain we all unanimously agree that US stategy for handling this covid situation has been dreadful. Much like our leadership in USSoccer, Our current head of state is clueless. And then we have the brilliant idio#s amongst us in the general public that are screaming about jumping right into soccer with no plans, send kids back to school with no plans and everyone kumbayah like there is nothing to be concerned about, BUT YET, THEY REFUSE TO DO THE BARE MINIMUM AND WEAR A MASK WHEN IN PUBLIC. Yes this lockdown and covid situation will affect people and kids after its all over. The earlier we get on the same page, the easier for us to find solutions. Now that shizats hitting the fan the big boss in the white house is wearing a mask. Smh, This video is a couple of weeks old but, it makes me think of some of the same frustrations within ussoccer. We need better leadership Did you really just post an MSNBC video and talk about it doesn't matter about your political views etc...? Man if you wanted to make a point you probably should have chosen a more middle of the road media piece (if any middle of the road media even exists anymore, I have my doubts...) |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jul 17, 2020 7:01:18 GMT -5
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Post by papacoach on Jul 17, 2020 7:40:59 GMT -5
So is it safe to go back to school ? 😷 it seems safe going to the Gym, Home Depot and Publix’s w/o HazMat suits on (lol)
Doesn’t wearing a mask depending on any study at hand decreases the already low risk factors of being positive? I heard upwards of 15-65% in decreasing the risk of virus spreading - Only IF these masks actually muzzle some from talking though 🙂🤭 -
Doesn’t the decreased risk of wearing a mask then increase when the mask is removed or NOT worn properly? Hmm..
What is the % of being positive in the age of students attending school?
It tested positive, what is the plan for absentee during this window (3-7-14 days) ?
What is the recovery rate % per age group with and w/o underlying conditions?
What enhanced steps will be taken to minimize risk factors of the adult staff and educators for themselves?
Is there any % to show adults to kids and kids to adults spreading ?
Being olde fashion and not a fan of virtual learning for U18 learners, a simple plan of enhanced sanitizing of common areas, precautional temp and hand sanitizer stations check point entries and step(s) to minimize human interaction(s) probably seems sensible in getting butts back into seats in the classroom to learn - don’t shut down the schools over the fear of what .. less than 2-5% positive testing and roughly 97-99% recovery rate?
I heard Six Flags is open to the public serving thousands per day, any health statistical evidence on ticket goers being positive afterwards?
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Post by fridge on Jul 17, 2020 8:59:56 GMT -5
So, this is interesting stuff and some good reading. It's amazing on how (mostly) reasonable people can disagree so widely on a topic. I am in the --get the US going again crowd. As noted above, the folks at Kroger and hundreds of other businesses can go back to work, but non-vulnerable school employees can't, makes no sense to me.
My serious and sincere question to my brethren who disagree is this--if you were King, what are the objective data points where you would say, "Yes, we can go back to school." Remember, all of this WAS about "bending the curve." We were not trying to defeat the virus--which you can't do--but bend the curve so hospitals would not be overrun and they have not been over run though some were pushed to the limit.
You can't get to ZERO deaths even if the US was shelter in place for the next 6 mths. So, what is the daily number of deaths and ICU count that would make you feel comfortable to give a directive if you were King to go back to school? Is there other data you would require? At the end of the day, this is all about line drawing as every policy question is.
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Post by fridge on Jul 17, 2020 9:06:51 GMT -5
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jul 17, 2020 9:54:14 GMT -5
Can you please verify and give me source of where this google doc originates from or at least where the data originates from. I want to use it on social media, but will get lambasted without it being sourced correctly. |
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 17, 2020 10:31:43 GMT -5
Get back to school.. but be safe/smart about it.
My issue is the people who are both screaming to reopen, and unwilling to do the things that facilitate that change. Adults acting like toddlers.
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Post by kidsocceruber on Jul 17, 2020 10:45:59 GMT -5
We can do our best to mitigate risk and go back to school/work/play and try to do things that we normally do, but that doesn't seem to be getting done today by everyone in enough numbers to stop the spread, whether you believe the numbers are as bad as they are being presented or not they're still happening. I want my kids back in school, interacting with the world and their friends on a daily basis, and if that can be done efficiently we should do it. All the companies noted are trying to do so my mitigating risk, whether it's wearing masks, distancing, or whatever. We're just acting like the virus is gone and we don't need to worry about it because it's not worse than a bad flu or we're not going to die from it. Or should we just listen to the politicians that say we shouldn't let science get in the way of going back to school? If the virus was visible to the naked eye like a mist in some horror movie maybe we'd get it...or then again maybe not and I just got the idea of a killer blockbuster movie!  |
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Post by fridge on Jul 17, 2020 10:56:12 GMT -5
Kidsocceruber (btw great name) I appreciate we need to do more. That said, there has to be an objective number when you would say--YES, open up. If it is ZERO deaths and ZERO ICU's for 6 months, so be it. But what are the data points? It is hard to resolve any issue if we don't at some point ID some objective data points.
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Post by bogan on Jul 17, 2020 11:10:08 GMT -5
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Post by kidsocceruber on Jul 17, 2020 11:26:39 GMT -5
Kidsocceruber (btw great name) I appreciate we need to do more. That said, there has to be an objective number when you would say--YES, open up. If it is ZERO deaths and ZERO ICU's for 6 months, so be it. But what are the data points? It is hard to resolve any issue if we don't at some point ID some objective data points. Yep, exactly. The question really is how desperate are we as a society to get back to normal? I openly question why 'it probably won't kill them' is the measurement we're taking to go back to the status quo. If you were given a bag of 100,000 dollar bills but were told 1,000 of them were laced with poison that could possibly kill you would you count them all and risk it? Probably depends on how desperate you are, right? Are we that desperate for the kids to go back to school that we're willing to take that 1% risk? If it's really a 0% risk then don't we need some proof of that, and exactly how could we get it at this point? For our teachers it isn't 0%, how many of their illnesses/deaths are acceptable? I don't have any of those answers, but I do wish we had leaders in the country that did and didn't want to politicize things for their own (political) gain on both sides. We all want to get back to normal as soon as possible, as safely as possible. |
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Post by fridge on Jul 17, 2020 11:27:20 GMT -5
But, it isn't a measurement of "probably won't kill" the kids. The undisputed data shows that the death risk to kids is truly about 0% percent. We have data--if one chooses to look. If it is more likely to die driving to school for a kid than dying of Covid, shouldn't the schools re-open like Kroger and other businesses?
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Post by ball2futbol on Jul 17, 2020 11:38:26 GMT -5
So, this is interesting stuff and some good reading. It's amazing on how (mostly) reasonable people can disagree so widely on a topic. I am in the --get the US going again crowd. As noted above, the folks at Kroger and hundreds of other businesses can go back to work, but non-vulnerable school employees can't, makes no sense to me. My serious and sincere question to my brethren who disagree is this--if you were King, what are the objective data points where you would say, "Yes, we can go back to school." Remember, all of this WAS about "bending the curve." We were not trying to defeat the virus--which you can't do--but bend the curve so hospitals would not be overrun and they have not been over run though some were pushed to the limit. You can't get to ZERO deaths even if the US was shelter in place for the next 6 mths. So, what is the daily number of deaths and ICU count that would make you feel comfortable to give a directive if you were King to go back to school? Is there other data you would require? At the end of the day, this is all about line drawing as every policy question is. You shouldn't be surprised that reasonable people disagree. You gave us a perfect example in the first paragraph. Such a position is the result of an unwillingness to actually listen to others. Even when the objective is the same. Making all your points therefore "subjective data"... and so the cycle/thread continues. Nothing personal fridge , but only a King could conclude a statement with... "school employees are non-vulnerable". I think I'll throw my phone, if I hear someone compare a teacher to a Kroger clerk again. |
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Post by honeybadger on Jul 17, 2020 12:01:42 GMT -5
Two friends of mine who don't know each other both went for CV testing. They filled out the paperwork and waited. They got tired of waiting and both left. 1-2 weeks later they each receive a letter stating they tested positive.
So for those who call people who think this is a little overblown "idiots" and other nonsense, you may want to rethink that. Or how about the 334 testing centers in Fla last week that a local news station reported ALL 5,000 people tested that day tested positive? You think that is statistically possible? No it's not.
My own uncle tested positive in Alabama, but he was asymptomatic and never had other family members tested. It's a household of 5. The paperwork counted all 5 as positive for CV.
So forgive me if I'm not going to be a sheep like some people.
Also, if you expand your horizons and check different sources for news you will see many epidemiologists say the masks are more harm than good. They are often laid down at home (any virus from the store that landed on the mask is still there, plus any bacteria they may be around) and used over and over.
So no, I don't buy everything I'm told just because CNN or MSNBC tells me.
Kids are less likely to catch it being out in open air on a soccer field than staying couped up or going to the grocery store. Outdoors is better than indoors--that's basic common sense.
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Post by kidsocceruber on Jul 17, 2020 12:02:50 GMT -5
But, it isn't a measurement of "probably won't kill" the kids. The undisputed data shows that the death risk to kids is truly about 0% percent. We have data--if one chooses to look. If it is more likely to die driving to school for a kid than dying of Covid, shouldn't the schools re-open like Kroger and other businesses? Maybe the data is right and it's near 0% that it kills my child, and if my child does contract it likely it's asymptomatic and they aren't adversely affected by it. How likely are those asymptomatic kids to give it to someone that is more vulnerable, whether it's a teacher, parent, grandparent, etc. The odds on them getting it increase greatly if they're all in class together and one has it, then the spread becomes that much greater a chance outside the school. If we were living in an NBA/MLS/MLB/NHL bubble it would be completely different. How do we get the kids back in school where there's little to no chance of them catching it and spreading it unknowingly to others? That is the question that is hard to answer, and likely an underlying reason for schools to go virtual. I'd be ok with the risk of going back to school wearing masks and distancing from each other in classrooms and see how it goes, but last I checked I'm not Superintendent of a school district in any of these counties and I'll live with the decisions by those that are and make the assumption they are not out to mind control me, take away my rights or doing it for their political gain. |
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Post by soccerguru on Jul 17, 2020 12:08:41 GMT -5
Well, I can tell you from 1st hand experience its pretty darn scary and treats everyone differently. I've seen kids test positive for 10 plus days and not have symptom one. I've had two kids with the virus and one had flu like symptoms for 10 days and was negative within two weeks. I've had another kid that had flu like symptoms for 20 days and just tested negative for the 1st time. Unfortunately, I've had it for 8 days and experienced flu like symptoms and complete exhaustion. It still hasn't released its claws from me and some days are better than others but fortunately it hasn't made it to my lungs yet.
We all wore masks, gloves and sanitized everything but I still caught it. We took extreme measures but Covid still prevailed.
My kid caught it from a friend that went to a LAX tourney to see her brother play, thus spreading it through the entire house.
It's coming, it's just a matter of time and I truly wish it wasn't.
So, knowing that scenario. If my kids were in school one would of missed 2 weeks and the other closer to 3 1/2 weeks. Trust me when I tell you they were in no shape to do schoolwork when they were sick.
I don't really have a solution, but social distancing and mask wearing is the bare minimum to begin with to stop this torrential mass spreading. Kids need socialization as a primary part of their education, but at what cost?
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Post by papacoach on Jul 17, 2020 12:16:51 GMT -5
Doesn't a cashier/clerk at Kroger, Walmart, Target, Publix have close human interactions with the same or greater numbers in their lane and/or section as a teacher does in a classroom of what .. 20 at a time, 6 or 7 periods for a total of what ... 150 plus or minus close interactions daily? I have seen in smaller rural towns, Teachers moonlighting as clerks, cashiers and drivers so Yes, there's a comparison with both when referring to daily human interaction and working in today's COVID-19 environment; If they are working and being productive so can school staff and educators. IF Kroger, Home depot, Six flags, Disney, etc.. are open and functioning with safety precautions in minimizing the already low single decimal point risk factor for students and staff, open the schools with safety provisions and let the education begin... simple even for a King under 2 mins time Hmm...nothing personnel, don't think about it though, go throw your phone as you promised (LOL) |
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Post by ball2futbol on Jul 17, 2020 12:23:45 GMT -5
Doesn't a cashier/clerk at Kroger, Walmart, Target, Publix have close human interactions with the same or greater numbers in their lane and/or section as a teacher does in a classroom of what .. 20 at a time, 6 or 7 periods for a total of what ... 150 plus or minus close interactions daily? I have seen in smaller rural towns, Teachers moonlighting as clerks, cashiers and drivers so Yes, there's a comparison with both when referring to daily human interaction and working in today's COVID-19 environment; If they are working and being productive so can school staff and educators. IF Kroger, Home depot, Six flags, Disney, etc.. are open and functioning with safety precautions in minimizing the already low single decimal point risk factor for students and staff, open the schools with safety provisions and let the education begin... simple even for a King under 2 mins time Hmm...nothing personnel, don't think about it though, go throw your phone as you promised (LOL) Quite simple term actually, its called length of exposure! You might want to use your phone to get the "data" for that one. |
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Post by fridge on Jul 17, 2020 12:28:58 GMT -5
So, this is interesting stuff and some good reading. It's amazing on how (mostly) reasonable people can disagree so widely on a topic. I am in the --get the US going again crowd. As noted above, the folks at Kroger and hundreds of other businesses can go back to work, but non-vulnerable school employees can't, makes no sense to me. My serious and sincere question to my brethren who disagree is this--if you were King, what are the objective data points where you would say, "Yes, we can go back to school." Remember, all of this WAS about "bending the curve." We were not trying to defeat the virus--which you can't do--but bend the curve so hospitals would not be overrun and they have not been over run though some were pushed to the limit. You can't get to ZERO deaths even if the US was shelter in place for the next 6 mths. So, what is the daily number of deaths and ICU count that would make you feel comfortable to give a directive if you were King to go back to school? Is there other data you would require? At the end of the day, this is all about line drawing as every policy question is. You shouldn't be surprised that reasonable people disagree. You gave us a perfect example in the first paragraph. Such a position is the result of an unwillingness to actually listen to others. Even when the objective is the same. Making all your points therefore "subjective data"... and so the cycle/thread continues. Nothing personal fridge , but only a King could conclude a statement with... "school employees are non-vulnerable". I think I'll throw my phone, if I hear someone compare a teacher to a Kroger clerk again. Inmimiom--respectfully, I quizzed why nonvulnerable school personal could NOT go back to school. Re-read it please. I never said that teachers were automatically nonvulnerable. Meanwhile, are you actually getting mad bc folks are comparing a Kroger clerk's exposure/risk to Covid to a teacher's exposure/risk to Covid? The teacher is more important? Wow, that is a very unique take. Finally, if you don't want to look at data claiming it is somehow subjective, then there is truly no criteria acceptable to you to re-open. I guess we open when the majority "feel" like its better. |
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Post by ball2futbol on Jul 17, 2020 13:25:01 GMT -5
Its actually an equation: Successful Infection = Exposure to Virus x Time. Do I actually need to go into detail to compare the professions against that equation? This isn't about prioritizing one over another or a tiered level of importance for any profession for that matter. If you truly want kids back in school and not looking for a short term fix we collectively need to be on the same page, hence our overall objectives being the same.
Ok so NON-vulnerable staff should go back. So who might that group be (and please respond to this one)? The only non-vulnerable group according to everyone are the kids. Maybe, the kids could teach each other, drive the buses, even open car doors at drop off lane, serve the food, clean the bathrooms etc. and have you seen an elementary/middle school bathroom lately? Again, my kids have been training/practicing since early April. Plan to go back to school, thankfully for now its possible for them. If and when that changes so be it. As you can see, my risk tolerance for them is high, we've made those calculations as a family and comfortable with that decision. But I'm not going to pretend I have the right to make that decision on anyone else's behalf.
Lastly, the data isn't the problem. The problem is your subjective views about the data and I believe that goes for most of us. We all analyze it differently and project those differences as fact. Again its not personal, but you can't start a statement about being amazed at the differing view points when you are partaking in the same practices. That's all and I appreciate the banter on this slow virtual work Friday.
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 17, 2020 13:32:49 GMT -5
Two friends of mine who don't know each other both went for CV testing. They filled out the paperwork and waited. They got tired of waiting and both left. 1-2 weeks later they each receive a letter stating they tested positive. So for those who call people who think this is a little overblown "idiots" and other nonsense, you may want to rethink that. Or how about the 334 testing centers in Fla last week that a local news station reported ALL 5,000 people tested that day tested positive? You think that is statistically possible? No it's not. My own uncle tested positive in Alabama, but he was asymptomatic and never had other family members tested. It's a household of 5. The paperwork counted all 5 as positive for CV. So forgive me if I'm not going to be a sheep like some people. Also, if you expand your horizons and check different sources for news you will see many epidemiologists say the masks are more harm than good. They are often laid down at home (any virus from the store that landed on the mask is still there, plus any bacteria they may be around) and used over and over. So no, I don't buy everything I'm told just because CNN or MSNBC tells me. Kids are less likely to catch it being out in open air on a soccer field than staying couped up or going to the grocery store. Outdoors is better than indoors--that's basic common sense. Ok badger dude.. I'll bite Cite an epidemiologist that says masks do more harm than good. I'm sure they've published their findings and didn't just go on Alex Jones, so it should be easy for you to dig up. |
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Post by guest on Jul 17, 2020 13:53:28 GMT -5
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Post by guest on Jul 17, 2020 14:23:36 GMT -5
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jul 17, 2020 14:31:05 GMT -5
Kidsocceruber (btw great name) I appreciate we need to do more. That said, there has to be an objective number when you would say--YES, open up. If it is ZERO deaths and ZERO ICU's for 6 months, so be it. But what are the data points? It is hard to resolve any issue if we don't at some point ID some objective data points. Yep, exactly. The question really is how desperate are we as a society to get back to normal? I openly question why 'it probably won't kill them' is the measurement we're taking to go back to the status quo. If you were given a bag of 100,000 dollar bills but were told 1,000 of them were laced with poison that could possibly kill you would you count them all and risk it? Probably depends on how desperate you are, right? Are we that desperate for the kids to go back to school that we're willing to take that 1% risk? If it's really a 0% risk then don't we need some proof of that, and exactly how could we get it at this point? For our teachers it isn't 0%, how many of their illnesses/deaths are acceptable? I don't have any of those answers, but I do wish we had leaders in the country that did and didn't want to politicize things for their own (political) gain on both sides. We all want to get back to normal as soon as possible, as safely as possible. Very very bad analogy. If you are going to do an analogy make it statistically accurate at least. For kids its like having 1 poisoned M&M in a bowl of 9089 M&M's at least in Georgia and their stats. For ages 18-39 it would be like 14 poison M&M's in a bowl of 10,000 For ages 40-60 it would be like 97 poison M&M's in a bowl of 10,000 For ages 60-69: it would be like 435 poison M&M's in a bowl of 10,000 For ages 70+ it would be like 1549 poison M&M's in a bowl of 10,000 So as you can see yes the risk goes up with age, but honestly even this analogy doesn't cover everything. You then have to breakdown by pre-existing conditions or healthy indviduals. Since we know most deaths are attributed to people with pre-existing condition either known or discovered after they get covid-19 you would have to adjust the analogy above if you are a healthy individual and then the odds go down way further. The facts are that young people to about age 40 are pretty safe. After that the risk increases but if you are healthy and factor out deaths with pre-existing conditions your risk is likely right around where the 40 and under crowd is that are pretty safe with or without pre-existing conditions. In other words if you really look at the stats its hard to grasp why we are doing what we are doing to our country and to our kids especially. I pulled these numbers straight from DPH's website by age for GA. I adjusted most to make a bowl of 10,000 to make it consistent. |
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