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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 27, 2020 10:14:04 GMT -5
Back to thread --
MLS is back....
Whose the best team in the league. LAFC ain't the same team as last season. Miami FC has a long way to go, to bad we couldn't watch them last night, but my money was on the 5 stripes.
MLS needs more water cooler talk, it's kind of the problem. greatest thing about sports is arguing who the best is at this, that etc. Coach K vs Dean Smith, Roy vs Coach K,
Saban vs urban Liar, Spurrier vs Stoops, Phil jackson vs Auerbach
Patriots vs Phins, Falcons vs Tampa bay, Bo vs Emmitt, Emmitt vs Sanders, Rice vs ??, Brady vs Montana, Jordan vs Lebron, Kobe vs ?
Damn I miss Kobe!
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Aug 27, 2020 10:27:33 GMT -5
Sorry, I strongly disagree. Athletes should not be able to protest at their "job". If I did, I would be fired and I am sure that would happen to most if not all of us non-athletes. If they want to protest, they should do it on their own time and their own dime. I hear and respect your position, especially with the being fired part. I would dare say many of us fit into that narrative. With that said, should cops be disciplined for having a "sick-out" or the "blue flu" to protest some perceived injustice to the rank n file? Yes the athletes could do it on their own time like most of us would, but when they have the proverbial mic and eyes of the world on them, shouldn't that be the best time to make a stance and fight for the oppressed, the needy or racial injustices they see happening in and around their community? I can't speak for other athletes or sports but I can say that players from the Clippers and Lakers will feel it in their pockets for opting to not continue with the playoffs this year. I think I speak for many, when I say the mood of the country has definitely changed and everything is now political. I personally think that as long as folks are exercising their constitutionally protected rights, especially in service of others, that is as American as you get. I truly do wish we could go back to bawling but as this quote states - The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing... maybe this is their way of doing something 🙌🙌🙌 |
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Post by bogan on Aug 27, 2020 10:43:33 GMT -5
Sorry, I strongly disagree. Athletes should not be able to protest at their "job". If I did, I would be fired and I am sure that would happen to most if not all of us non-athletes. If they want to protest, they should do it on their own time and their own dime. I hear and respect your position, especially with the being fired part. I would dare say many of us fit into that narrative. With that said, should cops be disciplined for having a "sick-out" or the "blue flu" to protest some perceived injustice to the rank n file? Yes the athletes could do it on their own time like most of us would, but when they have the proverbial mic and eyes of the world on them, shouldn't that be the best time to make a stance and fight for the oppressed, the needy or racial injustices they see happening in and around their community? I can't speak for other athletes or sports but I can say that players from the Clippers and Lakers will feel it in their pockets for opting to not continue with the playoffs this year. I think I speak for many, when I say the mood of the country has definitely changed and everything is now political. I personally think that as long as folks are exercising their constitutionally protected rights, especially in service of others, that is as American as you get. I truly do wish we could go back to bawling but as this quote states - The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing... maybe this is their way of doing something 🙌🙌🙌 Hey, Look☝️☝️☝️-a civil discussion/disagreement. It can still happen😬 |
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Post by cantgetright on Aug 27, 2020 10:44:28 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of what you said Futsal, but the examples that you listed are basically people not going to work and that is considered protesting. That is what should be done, not getting free air time to protest. Let athletes use their millions to buy ads just like any other company or political party would do to protest. Do I believe we have a problem with police brutality, yes. Do I believe we have a problem with systemic racism, no. Did we in the 60's 70's, yes. That was 50 years ago. There are no easy answers, but protesting should be done on one's own time or their own vacation time. See the difference. @jumpjumpkeep, the owners should have squashed TV protesting when it first happened. Don't like it, don't play. Want to protest, pay for your own tv time or get out and do it in your spare time.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Aug 27, 2020 10:52:30 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of what you said Futsal, but the examples that you listed are basically people not going to work and that is considered protesting. That is what should be done, not getting free air time to protest. Let athletes use their millions to buy ads just like any other company or political party would do to protest. Do I believe we have a problem with police brutality, yes. Do I believe we have a problem with systemic racism, no. Did we in the 60's 70's, yes. That was 50 years ago. There are no easy answers, but protesting should be done on one's own time or their own vacation time. See the difference. @jumpjumpkeep, the owners should have squashed TV protesting when it first happened. Don't like it, don't play. Want to protest, pay for your own tv time or get out and do it in your spare time. There is a lot in this paragraph to dispute, but I just want to address one point at the moment. Who said the owners of the NBA, MLB and MLS teams who were protesting by sitting out their games disagree? Maybe the owners agree with the players. Has that crossed your mind? I am not stating that they 100% agree, but it is possible that they do. |
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Post by ball2futbol on Aug 27, 2020 11:10:04 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of what you said Futsal, but the examples that you listed are basically people not going to work and that is considered protesting. That is what should be done, not getting free air time to protest. Let athletes use their millions to buy ads just like any other company or political party would do to protest. Do I believe we have a problem with police brutality, yes. Do I believe we have a problem with systemic racism, no. Did we in the 60's 70's, yes. That was 50 years ago. There are no easy answers, but protesting should be done on one's own time or their own vacation time. See the difference. @jumpjumpkeep, the owners should have squashed TV protesting when it first happened. Don't like it, don't play. Want to protest, pay for your own tv time or get out and do it in your spare time. Are you suggesting people like Susan B. Anthony and MLK should have waited for spring break or bought TV ad-time to stage their protest? |
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Post by cantgetright on Aug 27, 2020 11:12:11 GMT -5
The owners don't have to agree or disagree, but I stopped watching the NFL when Kap kneeled during the anthem. Complete disrespect of the flag and country. Eventually it will come back to the owners wallets and it probably already is. I will not watch basketball, and soon potentially all sports. I don't want to be force fed something that I don't necessarily believe in. BLM is a marxist organization. Look it up. They don't believe in the traditional nuclear family, look it up. Those 2 things right there are why I will never support it. If you want to come up with a different name and distance yourself from BLM, then maybe we can talk. Police brutality happens to everyone, black, white, brown. I do know that when I am pulled over it is yes sir, no sir, thank you for my ticket sir. That is what is taught to my children. I tell them if you don't agree with it, fight it in court. Bottom line is that if you aren't doing anything wrong you will usually stay out of those situations anyways. It is called compliance. Swallow that pride and fight it in court, not on the side of the road.
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Post by cantgetright on Aug 27, 2020 11:14:09 GMT -5
I have no issue about people protesting. Sometimes that is the only way to get someone to see. IF the protest becomes loud enough all will see. I have an issue about it being done while I am paying you to be at work.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Aug 27, 2020 11:51:25 GMT -5
The owners don't have to agree or disagree, but I stopped watching the NFL when Kap kneeled during the anthem. Complete disrespect of the flag and country. Eventually it will come back to the owners wallets and it probably already is. I will not watch basketball, and soon potentially all sports. I don't want to be force fed something that I don't necessarily believe in. BLM is a marxist organization. Look it up. They don't believe in the traditional nuclear family, look it up. Those 2 things right there are why I will never support it. If you want to come up with a different name and distance yourself from BLM, then maybe we can talk. Police brutality happens to everyone, black, white, brown. I do know that when I am pulled over it is yes sir, no sir, thank you for my ticket sir. That is what is taught to my children. I tell them if you don't agree with it, fight it in court. Bottom line is that if you aren't doing anything wrong you will usually stay out of those situations anyways. It is called compliance. Swallow that pride and fight it in court, not on the side of the road. Sorry not sorry but the KKK considers themselves a family oriented Christian organization with aspirations of protecting their community also, should we all follow them? Should they be the organization that we judge all white people by? Obviously no. But there-in lies the issue. One person or group of color fits the narrative and they are held up as the model for an entire race. IMHO there are two things wrong with the BLM. First, there are those who chose to sully the movement with violence, misinformation and rhetoric that is not germane to the real issue of a high propensity of people of color being almost systematically targeted and killed(thank the lord for the invention of camera phones). Even when they are in compliance and have been subdued(cue George Floyd). Secondly, I think the marketing is wrong. It shouldn't be BLM, but instead Black Lives Matter Too. That may bring folks like you around to the side of realizing that this is a movement about seeking equality under the eyes of the initial gatekeepers to the Judicial system- Cops. I think what the movement is more about is the right to have your day in court. No cop, Black, White, Asian, Hispanic or otherwise, should be judge, jury and executioner. Even if you witness a heinous crime and catch a perpetrator red handed, he/she should be given the right to defend themselves in court. It's the tacit agreement we all have in this judicial system we're all party too... |
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Post by cantgetright on Aug 27, 2020 12:28:55 GMT -5
Futsal you are the sound of reason. I agree with what you say, but it does bring me back to my point. Protest police brutality. There are many data points that show that black and white people are killed very similarly in police altercations. I think roughly 20 whites last year and 10 blacks. Now I know that proportionately it may seem a little out of whack since black people make up 14% of the country and whites make up 60%, but keep in mind that the 14% of blacks make up 45% of violent crimes. Protest the problem of police brutality and you have my attention. This BLM movement seems to be protesting police brutality, systemic racism(don't agree), reparations(don't agree). So you see tough for me to get behind what they stand for. A little old, but look at the numbers. Numbers don't lie. ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43 |
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Post by justwatching on Aug 27, 2020 12:38:42 GMT -5
I applaud all the athletes who decided to not play and protest. They are using their power for what they believe in. Someone said something like "if I did that on my job I would be fired..." If that's the case you are probably not that important to your organization nor have a powerful enough coalition to join you. If all the engineers at GOOGLE or some other fortune 100 company boycotted and stopped working they will not be fired because they can't be easily replaced. They will get the attention of the world and those in powerful positions will listen. If they are strong willed enough probably invoke change eventually. Let the owners that don't agree fire the team or even say all the owners disagree (which I doubt) and fire all the players their league goes to shizat. Most would not support it because of how they treated the players, others wouldn't watch because the value is low with the talent depleted, and replacement players won't join because of how the previous players were treated. The players have the power and thank God they are finally unified in using it. The people who make statements that don't believe systemic racism exists just don't want to see it and are unwilling to truly understand what people are enduring here. It is very blatantly obvious even in 2020 for anyone who actually attempts to see it. It didn't end in the 60s! You can probably look right at your place of work or your neighborhood and see the affects of it staring you in the face. In my opinion you affect change by affecting what matters to those who are in power (money, health, safety, etc.). Players stop playing affects a lot of money for very powerful people. It has everyone's attention. Now next steps is a unified ask. What do we want, what are we willing to do in order to get it, and how long can we endure... Also for all those criticizing the BLM organization this isn't about the organization it is about the statement that Black Lives Matter... These players nor the protesters are asking for special treatment they are asking for equal treatment in the black communities.
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Post by fridge on Aug 27, 2020 13:37:23 GMT -5
Futsal you are the sound of reason. I agree with what you say, but it does bring me back to my point. Protest police brutality. There are many data points that show that black and white people are killed very similarly in police altercations. I think roughly 20 whites last year and 10 blacks. Now I know that proportionately it may seem a little out of whack since black people make up 14% of the country and whites make up 60%, but keep in mind that the 14% of blacks make up 45% of violent crimes. Protest the problem of police brutality and you have my attention. This BLM movement seems to be protesting police brutality, systemic racism(don't agree), reparations(don't agree). So you see tough for me to get behind what they stand for. A little old, but look at the numbers. Numbers don't lie. ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43This issue troubles me because I know very smart people have very divergent views. I do think there is racism in the US. I have two serious questions and would to hear some serious answers--as this place has enlightened me many times. First, in Kenosha, police arrive at scene on domestic issue where MR. Blake's girlfriend contends it is unlawful for him to be there (and I think they would have known there was a warrant for 3rd degree sexual assault) against Mr. Blake. Given the warrant, police HAVE to arrest him. The police apparently make verbal commands to place him under arrest which is the first time he refuses to comply. The police then have no choice but to get physical with him on the back passenger side of the car including Taser wherein he slips away which is the second time he refuses to comply. He then walks to the front of the car as the officers verbally direct him to stop which is the third time he refuses to comply. He then goes to open the car door and the officers direct him not to which is the fourth time he refuses to comply. He then goes to reach into the car which is the fifth time he refuses to comply. After all of this, he gets shot. What do you want the police officers as he is reaching into the car? If there is a gun in the car and he grabs it, it is TOO LATE. Cops get shot If there is a knife, given how slippery he's been, he could stab a cop. OR, he starts the car and runs down a cop or innocent. Or he drives off with I believe kids in the backseat and perhaps harms them. Is the burden on Mr. Brooks to comply so he doesn't get shot or is the burden on the police to cross their fingers and pray Mr. Brooks is going into the car for no reason but to sit and chat. The police have no idea who there dealing with-- if he is crazy, on drugs, on a suicide mission bc of the domestic issue, etc. (I know he got shot 7 times but even CNN did a piece that most cops when they shoot are trained to keep shooting and don't know how many times they shot when questioned afterward due to high emotions.) I think this is horrible. But Mr. Brooks could have prevented it from happening 4 or 5 times. I wish there were a magic pill that would freeze folks in these situations and there would be no need for shooting. But until then, I'm not sure a police officer should have to trust that a non-compliant suspect isn't reaching for a gun. This will likely be a legal shoot based on what we know so far. If not, why would anyone want to be a cop? You make a mistake on a close call and you go to prison? Second question--what is the solution? I keep seeing the get out and vote campaign. This is a local issue. Local police are regulated, funded and trained by state and local entities. This is not a federal issue--and if it were, given Obama was in office from 2008-2016, it would be his federal policies implemented by these entities as Trump would not have time to implement a nationwide police policy in just 3 years in office. These cities and states (MN, WI, ATL) are all democratic (and I know there may be a shooting in a republican state sooner or later). Is that answer to vote out democrats in these cities? Thanks for your thoughts. |
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Post by mistergrinch on Aug 27, 2020 14:14:37 GMT -5
Sorry, I strongly disagree. Athletes should not be able to protest at their "job". If I did, I would be fired and I am sure that would happen to most if not all of us non-athletes. If they want to protest, they should do it on their own time and their own dime. Perhaps you've heard the term 'going on strike'? |
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Post by cantgetright on Aug 27, 2020 14:20:38 GMT -5
Well have them go on strike, they can not show up for work and then they go on strike, no issues there. People typically will strike outside of their workplace, not inside.
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Post by footyfan on Aug 27, 2020 14:25:03 GMT -5
This is a good listen. The retired green beret who suggested to Kaepernick that he kneel with teammates as a compromise between sitting on the bench and standing during the national anthem. www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651/the-veteran-and-nfl-player-who-advised-kaepernick-to-take-a-kneeI don't agree with violent acts being committed in response to violent acts being committed. But I understand it is done out of a sense of injustice by people who feel their voices are not being heard and/or their lives not being valued as equal. This country was founded upon that sentiment and has been slowly realizing it's great potential over the past 250 years. My own opinion is that the peaceful protesters(which includes the athletes) are not doing it because they hate the USA (and the flag), but because they want to see that potential fulfilled. And I would too. |
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Post by guerillaman on Aug 27, 2020 14:34:04 GMT -5
Futsal you are the sound of reason. I agree with what you say, but it does bring me back to my point. Protest police brutality. There are many data points that show that black and white people are killed very similarly in police altercations. I think roughly 20 whites last year and 10 blacks. Now I know that proportionately it may seem a little out of whack since black people make up 14% of the country and whites make up 60%, but keep in mind that the 14% of blacks make up 45% of violent crimes. Protest the problem of police brutality and you have my attention. This BLM movement seems to be protesting police brutality, systemic racism(don't agree), reparations(don't agree). So you see tough for me to get behind what they stand for. A little old, but look at the numbers. Numbers don't lie. ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43This issue troubles me because I know very smart people have very divergent views. I do think there is racism in the US. I have two serious questions and would to hear some serious answers--as this place has enlightened me many times. First, in Kenosha, police arrive at scene on domestic issue where MR. Blake's girlfriend contends it is unlawful for him to be there (and I think they would have known there was a warrant for 3rd degree sexual assault) against Mr. Blake. Given the warrant, police HAVE to arrest him. The police apparently make verbal commands to place him under arrest which is the first time he refuses to comply. The police then have no choice but to get physical with him on the back passenger side of the car including Taser wherein he slips away which is the second time he refuses to comply. He then walks to the front of the car as the officers verbally direct him to stop which is the third time he refuses to comply. He then goes to open the car door and the officers direct him not to which is the fourth time he refuses to comply. He then goes to reach into the car which is the fifth time he refuses to comply. After all of this, he gets shot. What do you want the police officers as he is reaching into the car? If there is a gun in the car and he grabs it, it is TOO LATE. Cops get shot If there is a knife, given how slippery he's been, he could stab a cop. OR, he starts the car and runs down a cop or innocent. Or he drives off with I believe kids in the backseat and perhaps harms them. Is the burden on Mr. Brooks to comply so he doesn't get shot or is the burden on the police to cross their fingers and pray Mr. Brooks is going into the car for no reason but to sit and chat. The police have no idea who there dealing with-- if he is crazy, on drugs, on a suicide mission bc of the domestic issue, etc. (I know he got shot 7 times but even CNN did a piece that most cops when they shoot are trained to keep shooting and don't know how many times they shot when questioned afterward due to high emotions.) I think this is horrible. But Mr. Brooks could have prevented it from happening 4 or 5 times. I wish there were a magic pill that would freeze folks in these situations and there would be no need for shooting. But until then, I'm not sure a police officer should have to trust that a non-compliant suspect isn't reaching for a gun. This will likely be a legal shoot based on what we know so far. If not, why would anyone want to be a cop? You make a mistake on a close call and you go to prison? Second question--what is the solution? I keep seeing the get out and vote campaign. This is a local issue. Local police are regulated, funded and trained by state and local entities. This is not a federal issue--and if it were, given Obama was in office from 2008-2016, it would be his federal policies implemented by these entities as Trump would not have time to implement a nationwide police policy in just 3 years in office. These cities and states (MN, WI, ATL) are all democratic (and I know there may be a shooting in a republican state sooner or later). Is that answer to vote out democrats in these cities? Thanks for your thoughts. There seemed to be plenty of time for the officer to use non deadly force to apprehend the individual regardless of his criminal history. |
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Post by cantgetright on Aug 27, 2020 14:52:23 GMT -5
How do you know that the office wins that fight? That is what it is at that point correct? They tried to tase the guy. Should the officer now put his life on the line and fight the guy and risk getting stabbed, he said he had a knife, or worse the guy gets the officers gun and kills him? How about just comply? Listen to what they are telling you to do. Why is that so hard? Don't say because when people do they get killed. Yeah maybe a couple of people a year do at the hands of bad cops, but that scenario is so few and far between. When you look at the amount of police interactions across the country vs how many people were killed by bad cops, you would see. This narrative is not put out there because the media does not want it there. There is a combined effort to tear this country apart.
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Post by GameOfThrow-ins on Aug 27, 2020 14:55:25 GMT -5
If you shed a tear for fools you’ll be crying all your life.
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Post by ball2futbol on Aug 27, 2020 14:58:41 GMT -5
Futsal you are the sound of reason. I agree with what you say, but it does bring me back to my point. Protest police brutality. There are many data points that show that black and white people are killed very similarly in police altercations. I think roughly 20 whites last year and 10 blacks. Now I know that proportionately it may seem a little out of whack since black people make up 14% of the country and whites make up 60%, but keep in mind that the 14% of blacks make up 45% of violent crimes. Protest the problem of police brutality and you have my attention. This BLM movement seems to be protesting police brutality, systemic racism(don't agree), reparations(don't agree). So you see tough for me to get behind what they stand for. A little old, but look at the numbers. Numbers don't lie. ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43This issue troubles me because I know very smart people have very divergent views. I do think there is racism in the US. I have two serious questions and would to hear some serious answers--as this place has enlightened me many times. First, in Kenosha, police arrive at scene on domestic issue where MR. Blake's girlfriend contends it is unlawful for him to be there (and I think they would have known there was a warrant for 3rd degree sexual assault) against Mr. Blake. Given the warrant, police HAVE to arrest him. The police apparently make verbal commands to place him under arrest which is the first time he refuses to comply. The police then have no choice but to get physical with him on the back passenger side of the car including Taser wherein he slips away which is the second time he refuses to comply. He then walks to the front of the car as the officers verbally direct him to stop which is the third time he refuses to comply. He then goes to open the car door and the officers direct him not to which is the fourth time he refuses to comply. He then goes to reach into the car which is the fifth time he refuses to comply. After all of this, he gets shot. What do you want the police officers as he is reaching into the car? If there is a gun in the car and he grabs it, it is TOO LATE. Cops get shot If there is a knife, given how slippery he's been, he could stab a cop. OR, he starts the car and runs down a cop or innocent. Or he drives off with I believe kids in the backseat and perhaps harms them. Is the burden on Mr. Brooks to comply so he doesn't get shot or is the burden on the police to cross their fingers and pray Mr. Brooks is going into the car for no reason but to sit and chat. The police have no idea who there dealing with-- if he is crazy, on drugs, on a suicide mission bc of the domestic issue, etc. (I know he got shot 7 times but even CNN did a piece that most cops when they shoot are trained to keep shooting and don't know how many times they shot when questioned afterward due to high emotions.) I think this is horrible. But Mr. Brooks could have prevented it from happening 4 or 5 times. I wish there were a magic pill that would freeze folks in these situations and there would be no need for shooting. But until then, I'm not sure a police officer should have to trust that a non-compliant suspect isn't reaching for a gun. This will likely be a legal shoot based on what we know so far. If not, why would anyone want to be a cop? You make a mistake on a close call and you go to prison? Second question--what is the solution? I keep seeing the get out and vote campaign. This is a local issue. Local police are regulated, funded and trained by state and local entities. This is not a federal issue--and if it were, given Obama was in office from 2008-2016, it would be his federal policies implemented by these entities as Trump would not have time to implement a nationwide police policy in just 3 years in office. These cities and states (MN, WI, ATL) are all democratic (and I know there may be a shooting in a republican state sooner or later). Is that answer to vote out democrats in these cities? Thanks for your thoughts. The right to "Due Process", would be my humble response to the first question. I'll give the second question a shot as well. How about each local/state department requires insurance on each individual officer. So the next time an officer blacks out and pumps 7 rounds into someones back again, which results in a civil suit, it doesn't come out of local tax payers pockets? The accountability is placed on that departments insurance policy which is paid into and out of the police pension funds. Let them regulate who's fit to police and secure our communities. Works with any other insurance policy (car, home, health etc). The higher the risk, the higher the premium and at the same time they hold one another accountable. I think I'd support a federal or local candidate willing to make some form of this happen. |
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Post by soccergurl on Aug 27, 2020 15:01:14 GMT -5
Futsal you are the sound of reason. I agree with what you say, but it does bring me back to my point. Protest police brutality. There are many data points that show that black and white people are killed very similarly in police altercations. I think roughly 20 whites last year and 10 blacks. Now I know that proportionately it may seem a little out of whack since black people make up 14% of the country and whites make up 60%, but keep in mind that the 14% of blacks make up 45% of violent crimes. Protest the problem of police brutality and you have my attention. This BLM movement seems to be protesting police brutality, systemic racism(don't agree), reparations(don't agree). So you see tough for me to get behind what they stand for. A little old, but look at the numbers. Numbers don't lie. ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43This issue troubles me because I know very smart people have very divergent views. I do think there is racism in the US. I have two serious questions and would to hear some serious answers--as this place has enlightened me many times. First, in Kenosha, police arrive at scene on domestic issue where MR. Blake's girlfriend contends it is unlawful for him to be there (and I think they would have known there was a warrant for 3rd degree sexual assault) against Mr. Blake. Given the warrant, police HAVE to arrest him. The police apparently make verbal commands to place him under arrest which is the first time he refuses to comply. The police then have no choice but to get physical with him on the back passenger side of the car including Taser wherein he slips away which is the second time he refuses to comply. He then walks to the front of the car as the officers verbally direct him to stop which is the third time he refuses to comply. He then goes to open the car door and the officers direct him not to which is the fourth time he refuses to comply. He then goes to reach into the car which is the fifth time he refuses to comply. After all of this, he gets shot. What do you want the police officers as he is reaching into the car? If there is a gun in the car and he grabs it, it is TOO LATE. Cops get shot If there is a knife, given how slippery he's been, he could stab a cop. OR, he starts the car and runs down a cop or innocent. Or he drives off with I believe kids in the backseat and perhaps harms them. Is the burden on Mr. Brooks to comply so he doesn't get shot or is the burden on the police to cross their fingers and pray Mr. Brooks is going into the car for no reason but to sit and chat. The police have no idea who there dealing with-- if he is crazy, on drugs, on a suicide mission bc of the domestic issue, etc. (I know he got shot 7 times but even CNN did a piece that most cops when they shoot are trained to keep shooting and don't know how many times they shot when questioned afterward due to high emotions.) I think this is horrible. But Mr. Brooks could have prevented it from happening 4 or 5 times. I wish there were a magic pill that would freeze folks in these situations and there would be no need for shooting. But until then, I'm not sure a police officer should have to trust that a non-compliant suspect isn't reaching for a gun. This will likely be a legal shoot based on what we know so far. If not, why would anyone want to be a cop? You make a mistake on a close call and you go to prison? Second question--what is the solution? I keep seeing the get out and vote campaign. This is a local issue. Local police are regulated, funded and trained by state and local entities. This is not a federal issue--and if it were, given Obama was in office from 2008-2016, it would be his federal policies implemented by these entities as Trump would not have time to implement a nationwide police policy in just 3 years in office. These cities and states (MN, WI, ATL) are all democratic (and I know there may be a shooting in a republican state sooner or later). Is that answer to vote out democrats in these cities? Thanks for your thoughts. stop victim blaming, bottom line even 100% guilty people should still have their day in court not in a morgue or the hospital here is a good listen www.instagram.com/tv/CEYJImrHcS6/?igshid=bm8q7s908z83 |
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Post by guerillaman on Aug 27, 2020 15:02:10 GMT -5
At what point are police officers also trained to understand, that now might not be the time to apprehended a suspect. I didn't realize he was stun gunned, didn't appear to faze him at all, -- but it would seem to just let him go, then track him down later with a more experienced and larger police presence and arrest the suspect. I guess it gets into will he hurt the children in the vehicle.
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Post by cantgetright on Aug 27, 2020 15:03:02 GMT -5
Love the idea, but realize our costs are going to go up as taxpayers because putting your life on the line everyday (Policeman)are going to need raises. Being an officer has got to be a tough job. Seeing the shizat they see everyday, I wouldn't want to do it.
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Post by Keeper on Aug 27, 2020 15:05:34 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of what you said Futsal, but the examples that you listed are basically people not going to work and that is considered protesting. That is what should be done, not getting free air time to protest. Let athletes use their millions to buy ads just like any other company or political party would do to protest. Do I believe we have a problem with police brutality, yes. Do I believe we have a problem with systemic racism, no. Did we in the 60's 70's, yes. That was 50 years ago. There are no easy answers, but protesting should be done on one's own time or their own vacation time. See the difference. @jumpjumpkeep, the owners should have squashed TV protesting when it first happened. Don't like it, don't play. Want to protest, pay for your own tv time or get out and do it in your spare time. You do realize the Players Unions own 50% of the Tv rights so they are spending their money to send their message. If you don’t like it go watch another station or support another league, but whining about them doing the right thing just makes you look worse. And as someone already said I believe some of the owners were all in favor of it, at least the smart ones. |
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Post by cantgetright on Aug 27, 2020 15:09:03 GMT -5
At what point are police officers also trained to understand, that now might not be the time to apprehended a suspect. I didn't realize he was stun gunned, didn't appear to faze him at all, -- but it would seem to just let him go, then track him down later with a more experienced and larger police presence and arrest the suspect. I guess it gets into will he hurt the children in the vehicle. Or how about they let him go and he goes on a shooting spree because he already knows about his first warrant and if he is willing to run and add up more charges, chances are that when the police do find him, he will not go easy. They are there to uphold the law. I believe that no one should be judge, jury and executioner, but every circumstance is different that the police run into. The only thing that needs to be done is do the right thing all of the time, live your life like your mother is watching you, be respectful and kind to others, and try to be an upstanding citizen. If you get involved with the police just do what they say, most police officers are good guys. If you have done something wrong, well, be a man, and accept responsibility for your actions. |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Aug 27, 2020 15:09:25 GMT -5
The right to "Due Process", would be my humble response to the first question. I'll give the second question a shot as well. How about each local/state department requires insurance on each individual officer. So the next time an officer blacks out and pumps 7 rounds into someones back again, which results in a civil suit, it doesn't come out of local tax payers pockets? The accountability is placed on that departments insurance policy which is paid into and out of the police pension funds. Let them regulate who's fit to police and secure our communities. Works with any other insurance policy (car, home, health etc). The higher the risk, the higher the premium and at the same time they hold one another accountable. I think I'd support a federal or local candidate willing to make some form of this happen. I luv the idea of liability insurance on cops just like we have for teachers, doctors, lawyers, accountants and real-estate agents. My other issue is, why is this not an issue on the Federal Level? We have lots of federal agents and agencies working in a myriad of local and state localities and we rarely ever hear of this. Furthermore, we have our brave military go into actual legitimate hot zones with clear cut enemies who want to end their very existence and yet still they stay the consummate professionals coupled with exceptional restraint? Just curious... |
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Post by fridge on Aug 27, 2020 15:12:06 GMT -5
Inmionin Due Process cant trigger if Mr Blake refuses to subject himself to due process. He refused. They followed the universal escalation of force policy — verbal, soft hands, hands on, taser, warning of deadly force, shoot. I
I think these cops need karate training to incapacitate w out injuring somehow.
Also, I would estimate that almost every police department in the US has insurance. The main exceptions are very large ones like Atlanta which may self insure. Having or not having insurance is immaterial to a cop on the street. Prison is their deterrent.
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Post by soccergurl on Aug 27, 2020 15:13:55 GMT -5
At what point are police officers also trained to understand, that now might not be the time to apprehended a suspect. I didn't realize he was stun gunned, didn't appear to faze him at all, -- but it would seem to just let him go, then track him down later with a more experienced and larger police presence and arrest the suspect. I guess it gets into will he hurt the children in the vehicle. Or how about they let him go and he goes on a shooting spree because he already knows about his first warrant and if he is willing to run and add up more charges, chances are that when the police do find him, he will not go easy. They are there to uphold the law. I believe that no one should be judge, jury and executioner, but every circumstance is different that the police run into. The only thing that needs to be done is do the right thing all of the time, live your life like your mother is watching you, be respectful and kind to others, and try to be an upstanding citizen. If you get involved with the police just do what they say, most police officers are good guys. If you have done something wrong, well, be a man, and accept responsibility for your actions. how about cops use these 4 words DE-ES-CA-LATE!!!! |
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Post by justwatching on Aug 27, 2020 15:16:38 GMT -5
Futsal you are the sound of reason. I agree with what you say, but it does bring me back to my point. Protest police brutality. There are many data points that show that black and white people are killed very similarly in police altercations. I think roughly 20 whites last year and 10 blacks. Now I know that proportionately it may seem a little out of whack since black people make up 14% of the country and whites make up 60%, but keep in mind that the 14% of blacks make up 45% of violent crimes. Protest the problem of police brutality and you have my attention. This BLM movement seems to be protesting police brutality, systemic racism(don't agree), reparations(don't agree). So you see tough for me to get behind what they stand for. A little old, but look at the numbers. Numbers don't lie. ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43This issue troubles me because I know very smart people have very divergent views. I do think there is racism in the US. I have two serious questions and would to hear some serious answers--as this place has enlightened me many times. First, in Kenosha, police arrive at scene on domestic issue where MR. Blake's girlfriend contends it is unlawful for him to be there (and I think they would have known there was a warrant for 3rd degree sexual assault) against Mr. Blake. Given the warrant, police HAVE to arrest him. The police apparently make verbal commands to place him under arrest which is the first time he refuses to comply. The police then have no choice but to get physical with him on the back passenger side of the car including Taser wherein he slips away which is the second time he refuses to comply. He then walks to the front of the car as the officers verbally direct him to stop which is the third time he refuses to comply. He then goes to open the car door and the officers direct him not to which is the fourth time he refuses to comply. He then goes to reach into the car which is the fifth time he refuses to comply. After all of this, he gets shot. What do you want the police officers as he is reaching into the car? If there is a gun in the car and he grabs it, it is TOO LATE. Cops get shot If there is a knife, given how slippery he's been, he could stab a cop. OR, he starts the car and runs down a cop or innocent. Or he drives off with I believe kids in the backseat and perhaps harms them. Is the burden on Mr. Brooks to comply so he doesn't get shot or is the burden on the police to cross their fingers and pray Mr. Brooks is going into the car for no reason but to sit and chat. The police have no idea who there dealing with-- if he is crazy, on drugs, on a suicide mission bc of the domestic issue, etc. (I know he got shot 7 times but even CNN did a piece that most cops when they shoot are trained to keep shooting and don't know how many times they shot when questioned afterward due to high emotions.) I think this is horrible. But Mr. Brooks could have prevented it from happening 4 or 5 times. I wish there were a magic pill that would freeze folks in these situations and there would be no need for shooting. But until then, I'm not sure a police officer should have to trust that a non-compliant suspect isn't reaching for a gun. This will likely be a legal shoot based on what we know so far. If not, why would anyone want to be a cop? You make a mistake on a close call and you go to prison? Second question--what is the solution? I keep seeing the get out and vote campaign. This is a local issue. Local police are regulated, funded and trained by state and local entities. This is not a federal issue--and if it were, given Obama was in office from 2008-2016, it would be his federal policies implemented by these entities as Trump would not have time to implement a nationwide police policy in just 3 years in office. These cities and states (MN, WI, ATL) are all democratic (and I know there may be a shooting in a republican state sooner or later). Is that answer to vote out democrats in these cities? Thanks for your thoughts. His history has nothing to do with this incident. He was not ever presenting a danger to anyone's life. Whether he was guilty of a crime or not, being guilty of a criminal act doesn't allow for a cop to shot you especially not in the back which shows he was not a threat. Not complying doesn't allow for you to be shot either. The officers' training should have de-escalated the situation. If it couldn't be de-escalated multiple trained officers should have stopped the situation long before it came to guns. If that one untrained and unarmed man could have gotten away from multiple trained officers something is wrong and if he did get away oh well he got away. You have his information, you know where he lives, you can apprehend him at another time. He was no treat to himself, others, the officers, or his kids at that point. He just didn't listen to you. I agree compliance is your best shot at survival but like someone pointed out compliance doesn't equal no issues with police officers especially if you are not white. I was told as a young boy how to act when a cop pulls me over and I am very polite when it happens but I am also very scared every time. Regardless of compliance I have had several bad run ins including illegal detainment and searches done to me. And in a couple of those situations it took a lot of restraint on my part not to be a pissed off a**hole because I certainly deserved to be one. Everyone won't have that every time they encounter a cop. But this has nothing to do with compliance/innocence or guilt/whatever. You can't shot anyone because he isn't listening to you. You can't shoot anyone because he is walking away from you and into his car. Tell me something. How do you justify killing a 12 yr old with a toy gun but drive right past a 17 yr old with a rifle who just killed multiple people all while others are telling you he just shot several? Where is the parity? |
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Post by cantgetright on Aug 27, 2020 15:16:50 GMT -5
Jump I don't watch football or basketball, and quite frankly, could care less. Pro sports is for entertainment. If watching it is no longer entertaining, then I stop watching. This was said due to the fact that I don't believe people should be protesting at their jobs. Simple as that. It wouldn't matter what the protest was about, I don't think it should be done in the workplace period. I am quite sure every HR person in the world agrees.
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Post by Keeper on Aug 27, 2020 15:17:22 GMT -5
How do you know that the office wins that fight? That is what it is at that point correct? They tried to tase the guy. Should the officer now put his life on the line and fight the guy and risk getting stabbed, he said he had a knife, or worse the guy gets the officers gun and kills him? How about just comply? Listen to what they are telling you to do. Why is that so hard? Don't say because when people do they get killed. Yeah maybe a couple of people a year do at the hands of bad cops, but that scenario is so few and far between. When you look at the amount of police interactions across the country vs how many people were killed by bad cops, you would see. This narrative is not put out there because the media does not want it there. There is a combined effort to tear this country apart. Yes it’s the cops job to risk their life. That’s their job. They don’t get the right to shoot an innocent man (yes he is innocent because it’s innocent until proven guilty or its suppose to be in the USA). Cops need to be trained and need to learn how to do their jobs without relying on murdering innocent people because they get scarred. It’s funny how nearly every other First World country can do that and expect more from their police yet here the in US it’s shoot first and deal with later. |
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