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Post by oraclesfriend on Aug 8, 2024 15:26:22 GMT -5
CollegeSoccerTruth posted it. It is an account associated with some college soccer coaches that opines about youth soccer and college soccer. All things soccer really. A few coaches run it, I believe. They are not always right. They said they heard it from an ECNL insider. There has been nothing posted since the first few days about it. It literally was forgotten, which is odd if the rumor is true.
We shall see. Whatever happens is out of our control for the time being. Play this season and don’t stress about it.
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Post by wolves97 on Aug 9, 2024 16:37:42 GMT -5
It also did come up in the Georgia Soccer Meeting.
No further info or guidance though.
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Post by footyfan on Aug 9, 2024 17:57:42 GMT -5
Probably bc someone read/heard the rumor
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Post by soccergirlz on Sept 26, 2024 15:12:27 GMT -5
x.com/ImYouthSoccer/status/1839319101983871201"We expect the decision to move BACK to the School Year (Aug 1) vs the current Calendar year to be announced in the next month. The #ECNL supports it but wants a majority of youth leagues to support it as well. We would be pretty surprised if this change is not in place in 2025"
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 26, 2024 22:36:38 GMT -5
This is nuts!!!
I said years ago US club and state based organizations shouldn’t have changed.
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Post by footyfan on Sept 27, 2024 9:05:55 GMT -5
This is nuts!!! I said years ago US club and state based organizations shouldn’t have changed. Let me guess, another anonymous account and not from the usually robust PR departments of any actual league offices. This is a solution in search of a problem but if it makes 50% of the Soccer parents happier, I suppose it's worth the chaos. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 27, 2024 10:22:13 GMT -5
Problem is you never know with the clowns in charge. They might create a new soccer age.... the twitter feed was discussing using graduation year as the age marker for example.
The gap year isn't great I can tell you that -- it sucks for the younger kids -- the u19 year is far from optimal in my opinion.
Would like to see more of a regional based nationals for the u19s vs a true national champion. kids in june are checked out after they graduated, a trip to nationals is kind of waste of money. Its fun and all, but the boys are ready -- they either are done playing or need to head to school to start pre-season.
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Post by redydc on Sept 27, 2024 10:28:51 GMT -5
For me the difference between later in the year vs earlier in the year year (in terms of players age) and the advantages/disadvantages are the secondary to what I see as a major benefit to changing it back to school calendar year... The primary benefit to me would be getting rid of "trap years" AND "ability to be seen at showcases": 1)Trap years were always a downside to the age mandate and those will be gone. The team can continue to gel as a collective and players can get equal playing time. Trap players won't have to quickly adapt to different teammates, possibly be played out of position and gain the coaches confidence. Yes, I understand that that can have benefits for all the same reasons, but when you are looking at it from a recruitment standpoint, it can be detrimental as well. 2)The other thing (I realized having experienced it recently) is the difference in the amount of showcases for players to be seen in for the "trap players" in their junior and senior year, as well as national playoffs. For example, our team which consisted of half juniors and half seniors, had 3-4 showcases plus nationals when they were sophomores and juniors. Then the following year we only had 2-3 showcases and no national playoffs in the junior to senior year. So for those in the lower age grouping, it provided less playing time in front of scouts and less chance that the scouts might be at your particular showcase. Add to that, the fact that Nationals were only for the top two teams vs just about every team be invited to nationals in the junior year, which gave yet another opportunity. It might not sound like much , but going to National playoffs is a big deal because it's also at a time when coaches are in an off season and can actually take the time to attend. Eliminating the trap year seems to be key. My kid is a 2011 (8th grade but is the youngest in his grade due to an August birthday). But another 8th grader is a 2010 and playing U15. In the spring, he is basically without a team, especially as his public middle school does not offer spring soccer. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 27, 2024 10:51:23 GMT -5
I had a kid in a trap year in 8th grade -- it was classic, he never wanted to play down with the younger team in the spring, so I never brought it up to coach or club.
It should have been a no brainer for them -- the idiots waited until like late feb to ask him to play with the younger team and by this point he already commited to play middle school -- yes it was a complete waste of time. just wanted to highlight one of the reasons why as a parent at many of these clubs, if you don't speak up, nobody will -- hence why we act the way we do --
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Post by footyfan on Sept 28, 2024 7:28:19 GMT -5
What % of the nation plays club soccer in the fall?
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Post by Keeper on Sept 29, 2024 16:15:11 GMT -5
What % of the nation plays club soccer in the fall? Maybe a 1/4-1/3 maybe. Majority are Spring while a couple split as HS like in Florida is in the Winter. Some up north I think split early Fall and Late Spring due to have early/long winter is as well. |
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rotgg
Jr. Academy
Posts: 90
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Post by rotgg on Sept 30, 2024 8:24:45 GMT -5
I don't think the change has anything to do with the older kids. It has more to do with kids not playing soccer at younger ages. If you look at rosters less than 10 percent come from last quarter of the year. Also the largest % of players on top teams come from the months of the year with the fewest births.There is clearly a large problem.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 30, 2024 8:41:38 GMT -5
take it for what its worth:
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Post by footyfan on Sept 30, 2024 18:57:23 GMT -5
take it for what its worth: I feel vindicated. There will be no switch for ECNL (US Club?) without backing from other sanctioning bodies. The parents that run that Twitter account are just giving their opinions. |
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Post by footyfan on Oct 1, 2024 8:01:49 GMT -5
I don't think the change has anything to do with the older kids. It has more to do with kids not playing soccer at younger ages. If you look at rosters less than 10 percent come from last quarter of the year. Also the largest % of players on top teams come from the months of the year with the fewest births.There is clearly a large problem. Switching from Birth Year to School Year means that the youngest quarter switches from Oct-Nov-Dec to Jun-Jul-Aug(depending on school yr start locally). There will always be a "youngest quarter". It does not alleviate the problem that the youngest group will always be the smallest percentage "selected" You are mostly correct about birth months: A study from 2014 states "Here in the U.S., states in the North have a birth peak in early summer (June-July), while states in the South experience a birth peak a few months later (October-November)." The logic fails when you want the largest group to also be the oldest group. That will make the age-related disparity even worse, just shift it to a different group. Being both the youngest and a smaller portion of the births, kids born in March and April will be worse off than kids currently born November or December. Lastly, soccer has grown out of the "hold our kids back for sports" mentality of some parents looking to weaken the child's cognitive progress for the sake of sport progress. That alone should keep us from going to graduation year. |
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rotgg
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Post by rotgg on Oct 1, 2024 10:12:46 GMT -5
I don't think the change has anything to do with the older kids. It has more to do with kids not playing soccer at younger ages. If you look at rosters less than 10 percent come from last quarter of the year. Also the largest % of players on top teams come from the months of the year with the fewest births.There is clearly a large problem. Switching from Birth Year to School Year means that the youngest quarter switches from Oct-Nov-Dec to Jun-Jul-Aug(depending on school yr start locally). There will always be a "youngest quarter". It does not alleviate the problem that the youngest group will always be the smallest percentage "selected" You are mostly correct about birth months: A study from 2014 states "Here in the U.S., states in the North have a birth peak in early summer (June-July), while states in the South experience a birth peak a few months later (October-November)." The logic fails when you want the largest group to also be the oldest group. That will make the age-related disparity even worse, just shift it to a different group. Being both the youngest and a smaller portion of the births, kids born in March and April will be worse off than kids currently born November or December. Lastly, soccer has grown out of the "hold our kids back for sports" mentality of some parents looking to weaken the child's cognitive progress for the sake of sport progress. That alone should keep us from going to graduation year. You are completely missing the point. You are thinking this has something to do with helping kids or making it better for kids to play. It has nothing to do with kids has everything to do with making money. When you are leaving out the largest birth months and soccer participation has been going down in the US and continues to decline. I am not saying that the decline is due to the age cutoff which was changed in 2017 and not sure if it will make any difference but the bean counters will try anything to get more $$$$. There is a little more to the birth year model that I seldom hear people talk about. The youngest kids in soccer Dec birthdays must play the first 4 months of the season when they are 2years lower than the age bracket. If it was school year this would never happen and the youngest kids would only play a single year up. Also if you were the youngest by school year there would be a 4month buffer when no soccer was played. The main problem is that the season starts in the fall. This causes the youngest kids to be 2years under the age bracket. Just for fun we can look at another fall sport football. If you turn 12yo in DEC you play U13 soccer Sept-Dec your only 11yo but would play U11 in football that is a massive difference. There is another problem kids go to school and at these schools friendships are formed and families become friends. If Johnny is friends with Paul Johnny has Dec birthday and Paul Jan they cant play soccer together but can play every other sport on the same team. So Johnny's dad and Paul's dad talk about playing sports and decide on one they can play together. The last scenario plus when starting soccer your child would be 4yo playing U6 are massive revenue loses for soccer in the US. |
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Post by randomparent on Oct 1, 2024 12:03:18 GMT -5
I feel like everyone makes this more complicated than it is.
Soccer is a game for kids. Kids want to play with their friends. Aligning with the school year means more kids get to play with more of their friends. Therefore, more kids and parents happy. Better participation.
Birth year or school year, one quartile of kids lose out because they are the youngest.
Just go back to what makes the most parents happy.
This change is not about if it happens but about when it happens.
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Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 1, 2024 13:41:31 GMT -5
I feel like everyone makes this more complicated than it is. Soccer is a game for kids. Kids want to play with their friends. Aligning with the school year means more kids get to play with more of their friends. Therefore, more kids and parents happy. Better participation. Birth year or school year, one quartile of kids lose out because they are the youngest. Just go back to what makes the most parents happy. This change is not about if it happens but about when it happens. Well said... plus the other factors... LOL Just a side thought, it also helps the college coaches scouting teams and teammates as it puts together graduation years so they don't have to look at which class said player is in, they can just concentrate on the games they are watching. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 1, 2024 14:58:55 GMT -5
having a kid play on the u19s and the be the younger half of the team for the boys kind of sucked in ecnl.
at showcases, coaches kept on saying they were only looking at the older kids. i'm for switching back so the entire team is in the same class if the purpose is for college.
let mls next stay in the other format where there trying get kids to be pros etc. they have their own structure anyway and kind of just make things up as they go anyway.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 3, 2024 11:11:50 GMT -5
I feel like everyone makes this more complicated than it is. Soccer is a game for kids. Kids want to play with their friends. Aligning with the school year means more kids get to play with more of their friends. Therefore, more kids and parents happy. Better participation. Birth year or school year, one quartile of kids lose out because they are the youngest. Just go back to what makes the most parents happy. This change is not about if it happens but about when it happens. Well said... plus the other factors... LOL Just a side thought, it also helps the college coaches scouting teams and teammates as it puts together graduation years so they don't have to look at which class said player is in, they can just concentrate on the games they are watching. If they chose to switch back the problem of the school year/grad year is that everyone is being egocentric about it. Let me spell this out for everyone so maybe you all will understand. NOT EVERY STATE USES THE SAME STARTING BIRTHDATE FOR SCHOOL. So is everyone willing to go with the graduation year??? Are you willing to go by grade in school even when they are academy age and they are U9? This is the problem. One state it is September 1 and another it is December 1. Then you have other kids held back. Let’s say little Jimmy is held back because he has autism and needed some therapy when he was young. So he started school late. He is in the class of 2028 but he turned 16 already. Now in high school it does not matter because they are all matured but in middle school or even elementary school it mattered. Let’s not pretend that there are not a lot of boys held back if their birthdays are in June, July or August because their parents thought they were too immature or too small. Plus the kids with dyslexia or ADD or other neurodivergent issues. It is a much larger percentage than you know. It is not about putting them with their friends because friends were always being split up. Before the change my eldest was one of the August kids caught playing with the grade below her. Her club wouldn’t let her play up due to a numbers issue so she played with the younger kids before she moved clubs and the age group change happened. As a coach I hate to watch my team be broken up. As a mom I hate to watch my other child have to have her team be broken up. We went through it once already. I know as a coach I will see it happen again because it is cyclical. I do hope we can make it three more years for my younger one to make it through high school without the upheaval. |
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Post by randomparent on Oct 3, 2024 12:53:23 GMT -5
Well said... plus the other factors... LOL Just a side thought, it also helps the college coaches scouting teams and teammates as it puts together graduation years so they don't have to look at which class said player is in, they can just concentrate on the games they are watching. If they chose to switch back the problem of the school year/grad year is that everyone is being egocentric about it. Let me spell this out for everyone so maybe you all will understand. NOT EVERY STATE USES THE SAME STARTING BIRTHDATE FOR SCHOOL. So is everyone willing to go with the graduation year??? Are you willing to go by grade in school even when they are academy age and they are U9? This is the problem. One state it is September 1 and another it is December 1. Then you have other kids held back. Let’s say little Jimmy is held back because he has autism and needed some therapy when he was young. So he started school late. He is in the class of 2028 but he turned 16 already. Now in high school it does not matter because they are all matured but in middle school or even elementary school it mattered. Let’s not pretend that there are not a lot of boys held back if their birthdays are in June, July or August because their parents thought they were too immature or too small. Plus the kids with dyslexia or ADD or other neurodivergent issues. It is a much larger percentage than you know. It is not about putting them with their friends because friends were always being split up. Before the change my eldest was one of the August kids caught playing with the grade below her. Her club wouldn’t let her play up due to a numbers issue so she played with the younger kids before she moved clubs and the age group change happened. As a coach I hate to watch my team be broken up. As a mom I hate to watch my other child have to have her team be broken up. We went through it once already. I know as a coach I will see it happen again because it is cyclical. I do hope we can make it three more years for my younger one to make it through high school without the upheaval. Your post sums up almost every discussion that takes place about almost any topic today. There are always exceptions. They would be trying to get to a better solution, not a perfect one. Having a 9/1 start date, or 8/1 or whatever would be infinitely better for the vast majority of kids. Would it be perfect? No. But perfect is the enemy of good. |
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Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 3, 2024 21:49:14 GMT -5
If they chose to switch back the problem of the school year/grad year is that everyone is being egocentric about it. Let me spell this out for everyone so maybe you all will understand. NOT EVERY STATE USES THE SAME STARTING BIRTHDATE FOR SCHOOL. So is everyone willing to go with the graduation year??? Are you willing to go by grade in school even when they are academy age and they are U9? This is the problem. One state it is September 1 and another it is December 1. Then you have other kids held back. Let’s say little Jimmy is held back because he has autism and needed some therapy when he was young. So he started school late. He is in the class of 2028 but he turned 16 already. Now in high school it does not matter because they are all matured but in middle school or even elementary school it mattered. Let’s not pretend that there are not a lot of boys held back if their birthdays are in June, July or August because their parents thought they were too immature or too small. Plus the kids with dyslexia or ADD or other neurodivergent issues. It is a much larger percentage than you know. It is not about putting them with their friends because friends were always being split up. Before the change my eldest was one of the August kids caught playing with the grade below her. Her club wouldn’t let her play up due to a numbers issue so she played with the younger kids before she moved clubs and the age group change happened. As a coach I hate to watch my team be broken up. As a mom I hate to watch my other child have to have her team be broken up. We went through it once already. I know as a coach I will see it happen again because it is cyclical. I do hope we can make it three more years for my younger one to make it through high school without the upheaval. Your post sums up almost every discussion that takes place about almost any topic today. There are always exceptions. They would be trying to get to a better solution, not a perfect one. Having a 9/1 start date, or 8/1 or whatever would be infinitely better for the vast majority of kids. Would it be perfect? No. But perfect is the enemy of good. Oraclesfriend - You seem fired up about this. I could be wrong because context is sometimes hard to grasp when typing it out. My oldest went through the last change also, it not only broke up her team (a good team, then being moved to a lesser team), she also had to move up basically 2 age groups. It was brutal and heartbreaking, so I get it. I know what you are saying and feel that distress. However, the change should never have happened in the first place, they never asked the parents and the clubs their opinion, and the majority of parents I knew and most of the comments I read about it at that time, were all against... for many of the same reasons mentioned on this thread. Not changing it back simply because it would disrupt things again, is not the solid reason in my humble opinion. If you see a mistake is made, correct it, don't let the error fester. I know you have a stake in this with your own kid possibly having to experience it, so do I, but I do think it would be beneficial to the majority of players, and as randomparent said, it might no be a perfect one, but it is a better solution. |
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darp
Jr. Academy
Posts: 48
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Post by darp on Oct 4, 2024 9:15:35 GMT -5
Well said... plus the other factors... LOL Just a side thought, it also helps the college coaches scouting teams and teammates as it puts together graduation years so they don't have to look at which class said player is in, they can just concentrate on the games they are watching. If they chose to switch back the problem of the school year/grad year is that everyone is being egocentric about it. Let me spell this out for everyone so maybe you all will understand. NOT EVERY STATE USES THE SAME STARTING BIRTHDATE FOR SCHOOL. So is everyone willing to go with the graduation year??? Are you willing to go by grade in school even when they are academy age and they are U9? This is the problem. One state it is September 1 and another it is December 1. Then you have other kids held back. Let’s say little Jimmy is held back because he has autism and needed some therapy when he was young. So he started school late. He is in the class of 2028 but he turned 16 already. Now in high school it does not matter because they are all matured but in middle school or even elementary school it mattered. Let’s not pretend that there are not a lot of boys held back if their birthdays are in June, July or August because their parents thought they were too immature or too small. Plus the kids with dyslexia or ADD or other neurodivergent issues. It is a much larger percentage than you know. It is not about putting them with their friends because friends were always being split up. Before the change my eldest was one of the August kids caught playing with the grade below her. Her club wouldn’t let her play up due to a numbers issue so she played with the younger kids before she moved clubs and the age group change happened. As a coach I hate to watch my team be broken up. As a mom I hate to watch my other child have to have her team be broken up. We went through it once already. I know as a coach I will see it happen again because it is cyclical. I do hope we can make it three more years for my younger one to make it through high school without the upheaval. Maybe I am wrong here, but I'm pretty sure the change won't literally be determined by their grade in school. It's just that the date change closely coincides with the cut-off dates of the school year. You can hold your kid back all you want, and it's not going to change their soccer year. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 4, 2024 9:21:57 GMT -5
Your post sums up almost every discussion that takes place about almost any topic today. There are always exceptions. They would be trying to get to a better solution, not a perfect one. Having a 9/1 start date, or 8/1 or whatever would be infinitely better for the vast majority of kids. Would it be perfect? No. But perfect is the enemy of good. Oraclesfriend - You seem fired up about this. I could be wrong because context is sometimes hard to grasp when typing it out. My oldest went through the last change also, it not only broke up her team (a good team, then being moved to a lesser team), she also had to move up basically 2 age groups. It was brutal and heartbreaking, so I get it. I know what you are saying and feel that distress. However, the change should never have happened in the first place, they never asked the parents and the clubs their opinion, and the majority of parents I knew and most of the comments I read about it at that time, were all against... for many of the same reasons mentioned on this thread. Not changing it back simply because it would disrupt things again, is not the solid reason in my humble opinion. If you see a mistake is made, correct it, don't let the error fester. I know you have a stake in this with your own kid possibly having to experience it, so do I, but I do think it would be beneficial to the majority of players, and as randomparent said, it might no be a perfect one, but it is a better solution. I am fired up about it. But not because I think they shouldn’t fix the mistake. I just don’t think they should go back to the same date range. AND I don’t think they should just make a knee jerk reaction. I think they should actually use science. Research. Data. See all of us on here say that “we think” this and “we think” that but first we are a poor sample to get opinions from. We are on a forum for soccer so are the most interested people and are not representative of the average parent in America. Secondly, anything we hear from person A or person B is also not a good sample and is biased. You actually have to study, research, control for external factors and variables and everything else. My eldest was like yours and jumped two age groups and got the most raw deal of anyone by US soccer as all August birthday kids did (in Georgia and all states that use 9/1 as their cutoff for school). They all jumped two age groups after the age group change and they all (unless their clubs permitted them to play up) had played with the grade below them before the age group change. But if the leagues decide to change it back they need to decide that they have a good reason to do so that will benefit the players AND will not cause us to lose more participation!!!! Besides I don’t think that it is as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. All of these people complain about the “trapped players” but every club I have ever been at has always had good options for trapped players and they have always had a place to play in the spring either with the younger ECNL/GA or SCCL teams and as seniors they end up being the leaders and standouts of the club teams. As far as recruiting goes they are getting an extra year of visibility in showcases at the highest levels being seen when they are sophomores while their junior teammates are being recruited so they are on people’s radars earlier. Granted as I am making comments about small sample sizes being a bad example I am about to provide one, but over a dozen of my eldest child’s trapped player former teammates all got great D1 signings. A couple of those girls were either not on ECNL teams as sophomores and had extra time to get on one or had injuries to overcome. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 4, 2024 9:25:47 GMT -5
If they chose to switch back the problem of the school year/grad year is that everyone is being egocentric about it. Let me spell this out for everyone so maybe you all will understand. NOT EVERY STATE USES THE SAME STARTING BIRTHDATE FOR SCHOOL. So is everyone willing to go with the graduation year??? Are you willing to go by grade in school even when they are academy age and they are U9? This is the problem. One state it is September 1 and another it is December 1. Then you have other kids held back. Let’s say little Jimmy is held back because he has autism and needed some therapy when he was young. So he started school late. He is in the class of 2028 but he turned 16 already. Now in high school it does not matter because they are all matured but in middle school or even elementary school it mattered. Let’s not pretend that there are not a lot of boys held back if their birthdays are in June, July or August because their parents thought they were too immature or too small. Plus the kids with dyslexia or ADD or other neurodivergent issues. It is a much larger percentage than you know. It is not about putting them with their friends because friends were always being split up. Before the change my eldest was one of the August kids caught playing with the grade below her. Her club wouldn’t let her play up due to a numbers issue so she played with the younger kids before she moved clubs and the age group change happened. As a coach I hate to watch my team be broken up. As a mom I hate to watch my other child have to have her team be broken up. We went through it once already. I know as a coach I will see it happen again because it is cyclical. I do hope we can make it three more years for my younger one to make it through high school without the upheaval. Maybe I am wrong here, but I'm pretty sure the change won't literally be determined by their grade in school. It's just that the date change closely coincides with the cut-off dates of the school year. You can hold your kid back all you want, and it's not going to change their soccer year. Some people were saying grad year and some were saying the old way of the date range which would make more sense based on previous years. I was making a comment that would someone be ok with using grad year even if people had kids that were held back. |
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Post by redydc on Oct 10, 2024 9:33:08 GMT -5
Has there been an update on this in Georgia? The rumor mill says it is a done deal, but I haven't heard anything official.
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Post by footyd on Oct 13, 2024 16:41:18 GMT -5
Is there an update about the US Club meeting in October regarding a vote on the ECNL age change?
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Post by allthingsoccer on Oct 13, 2024 20:33:49 GMT -5
So. May, 2013 is currently U12
2025/26 she will be U13
Under new old rule what will be age group?
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Post by atlnoleg on Oct 14, 2024 7:15:41 GMT -5
So. May, 2013 is currently U12 2025/26 she will be U13 Under new old rule what will be age group? As I understand what's being rumored, nothing will change for her. May is right in the middle of the school grade age. Assuming she's in 6th grade currently, she would play with her 7th grade classmates next year. It's the kids born after the school cutoff (Aug 31?) that will be "moved down" to play with their classmates who will be entering 6th grade next year, in your example. So her team will potentially lose a couple of 2013 kids but potentially gain a couple of 2012 kids with late birthdays. But who knows if this is going to happen. |
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Post by redydc on Oct 16, 2024 8:42:41 GMT -5
According to this piece, “US Soccer is currently contemplating a significant change to the birth year registration system, potentially shifting back to the August 1–July 31 format. This decision has been under discussion for much of the year, and a final vote is expected to take place on November 22, 2024.” dpleague.org/birth-year/This article is from a DPL site, but it’s the first I’ve seen that has shared a specific date. |
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