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Post by throughball on Sept 18, 2018 7:57:36 GMT -5
Focus - what we are discussing is the perception, real or not, of how one location feels they are being treated. Normally, I would ignore feelings in footy, but these are paying customers so you can’t ignore their gripes. In my opinion some of it is in their head and in other clear examples it’s not. It is how the parents, players, coaches and at times the leadership treats the folks out of Norcross that helps to fuel these debates. I think it's a shame if the folks in Norcross feel that way, I can't think of anyone on our Fowler NPL team that chose Fowler over Norcross for any other reason than location or familiarity with the current team they were already on. I've heard several Fowler parents express a lot of interest in the SCCL over NPL, and we went so far as to check Waze multiple times just to rule out that Norcross was just too far to train out of for us because we think a lot of their coach. These multiple branches I'm sure are great for club income but they really do hurt the goal of playing better soccer because of all the dilution and the best coaches can only coach so many teams. After watching the UFA 05 Norcross vs. Fowler game, you could have one heck of a group if you combined the best of the two and practiced out of South as was mentioned before. Instead, our regular season soccer is actually of a lower quality than what we saw all summer at Super Y because you had a more talented group of players with the best of multiple locations and clubs combined. I'm guessing if you asked anyone, Super Y soccer should never be better than the same club's premier team, but that's what player dilution gets you.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Sept 18, 2018 8:58:00 GMT -5
I think it's a shame if the folks in Norcross feel that way, I can't think of anyone on our Fowler NPL team that chose Fowler over Norcross for any other reason than location or familiarity with the current team they were already on. I've heard several Fowler parents express a lot of interest in the SCCL over NPL, and we went so far as to check Waze multiple times just to rule out that Norcross was just too far to train out of for us because we think a lot of their coach. These multiple branches I'm sure are great for club income but they really do hurt the goal of playing better soccer because of all the dilution and the best coaches can only coach so many teams. After watching the UFA 05 Norcross vs. Fowler game, you could have one heck of a group if you combined the best of the two and practiced out of South as was mentioned before. Instead, our regular season soccer is actually of a lower quality than what we saw all summer at Super Y because you had a more talented group of players with the best of multiple locations and clubs combined. I'm guessing if you asked anyone, Super Y soccer should never be better than the same club's premier team, but that's what player dilution gets you. True statements. Truth be told, I wish they would develop and expand the fields at South Forsyth. I think that would be a good happy medium for both locations. With all the $$$ flowing in from all the programs, that should be where the leadership looks to invest for long term growth, not Burruss up in the middle of nowhere. That would discount most issues of having to travel far for practice. Games can still be out of Fowler/Lanier-land. But like you said, it's hard to convince parents/players that 45+ mins each way in rush hour traffic is worth it, if you are not on the DA team. With Practice, that comes to an almost 4 hour day. On a side note, I also think all high level programs DA/NPL/SCCL should all practice in one location. This allows coaches the ability to truly evaluate players across the board and maybe give players who were missed a true opportunity to progress to the higher level of play. It also helps to motivate those on the 'lower' teams with added bonus of stepping up their game.
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Post by surgesoccer on Sept 18, 2018 9:05:26 GMT -5
Why worry who is technically 1, 2, 3 Team. You don’t need to constantly validate to the forum on your team’s latest record and who you last beat to make you feel better on technically being the 3rd team but a good team. I don’t see other teams so hung up on their spot whether they are Concorde, NTH, GSA, SSA or UFA but you. There is no purposeful slight to Norcross. Wish your team continued success! Unfortunately you do have to kind of validate yourself and your league. With the Alphabet soup leagues now, so many good clubs have no chance to play in regular season games so the only way right now to do so is in tournaments or scrimmages. And the only way to judge where teams and leagues are is to play each, but with scrimmages there is no formal reporting system to track results of how different leagues compared. Also with tournaments right now a league like SCCL is behind the eight ball when it comes to being placed in the top level of competition. For instance, in the Concorde Nike cup all SCCL teams were put into the second level. We requested that we play in the top competitive bracket but the tournaments response was pretty much the top level goes to ECNL, NPL, NL and then if spots are open SCCL will then be considered. So the perception is that SCCL is a less talented/competetive league than NPL and NL. And right now that is true, at least in our age group. When making a decision on the best league to play in there was no information as to how leagues would stack up. There was barely info on which teams would actually fill SCCL spots. The more info the better so why not share results from games against different leagues. Plus Futsal Gawdess asked for the results to be shared, and she is the Gawdess. I share our teams results because that's what I now. Guess I could share that earlier season SCCL SSA 05 beat the SSA NPL 05 team, but beyond that don't know what they are doing. Personally I wish all teams would take the opportunity to play against other leagues and share results as well. The more info the better. So yes, I will continue to advocate for our team and league when there is new info. As far as feeling better posting those results here, unfortunately I have yet to notice an increase in happiness or ego boost doing so. Maybe it takes some time to notice the effects.
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Post by surgesoccer on Sept 18, 2018 9:12:07 GMT -5
Focus - what we are discussing is the perception, real or not, of how one location feels they are being treated. Normally, I would ignore feelings in footy, but these are paying customers so you can’t ignore their gripes. In my opinion some of it is in their head and in other clear examples it’s not. It is how the parents, players, coaches and at times the leadership treats the folks out of Norcross that helps to fuel these debates. I think it's a shame if the folks in Norcross feel that way, I can't think of anyone on our Fowler NPL team that chose Fowler over Norcross for any other reason than location or familiarity with the current team they were already on. I've heard several Fowler parents express a lot of interest in the SCCL over NPL, and we went so far as to check Waze multiple times just to rule out that Norcross was just too far to train out of for us because we think a lot of their coach. These multiple branches I'm sure are great for club income but they really do hurt the goal of playing better soccer because of all the dilution and the best coaches can only coach so many teams. After watching the UFA 05 Norcross vs. Fowler game, you could have one heck of a group if you combined the best of the two and practiced out of South as was mentioned before. Instead, our regular season soccer is actually of a lower quality than what we saw all summer at Super Y because you had a more talented group of players with the best of multiple locations and clubs combined. I'm guessing if you asked anyone, Super Y soccer should never be better than the same club's premier team, but that's what player dilution gets you. Logic has no place in GA Soccer. Combining Fowler and Norcross would produce a very solid team. And South Forsyth would be the logical location. It would require a little more drive time for some people from both teams, but would be worth it. They actually fielded a combined team at u12 about 3 years ago that did practice at South Forsyth. Believe it was right before they launched the u12 DA program. For some reason after DA they did not continue it. Next Spring (2020) it might happen at our age group as this years 8th graders will be in high school and the 7th graders trying to form a team. We'll see.
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Post by surgesoccer on Sept 18, 2018 9:16:29 GMT -5
On a side note, I also think all high level programs DA/NPL/SCCL should all practice in one location. This allows coaches the ability to truly evaluate players across the board and maybe give players who were missed a true opportunity to progress to the higher level of play. It also helps to motivate those on the 'lower' teams with added bonus of stepping up their game. I've wondered why they do not do this. Even at our location I wonder why the Premier and Red team do not practice on the same field and periodically hold joint practices. Would be a great opportunity for coaches to identify players that may be ready to move up. You would expect the lower team coaches to promote their players to the higher team, but doesn't always happen. Sometimes the lower team coach is worried about competing in their league and reluctant to lose good players.
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Post by soccerfan5 on Sept 18, 2018 9:59:54 GMT -5
On a side note, I also think all high level programs DA/NPL/SCCL should all practice in one location. This allows coaches the ability to truly evaluate players across the board and maybe give players who were missed a true opportunity to progress to the higher level of play. It also helps to motivate those on the 'lower' teams with added bonus of stepping up their game. I've wondered why they do not do this. Even at our location I wonder why the Premier and Red team do not practice on the same field and periodically hold joint practices. Would be a great opportunity for coaches to identify players that may be ready to move up. You would expect the lower team coaches to promote their players to the higher team, but doesn't always happen. Sometimes the lower team coach is worried about competing in their league and reluctant to lose good players. Surge, I also would really like keeping 1st and 2nd teams practicing at the same field/time (above Academy level) with periodic joint practices. We all know that some players get "grandfathered" into a top team or "stuck" in a lower team and without that side by side evaluation it is sometimes hard for coaches to realize that there are better player options in the 2nd team for changes to be made come tryouts. A related question is have you ever seen player trades bw Red and Premier during the season above Academy level? I think I have only seen guests playing up but existing players not relegated downward (outside of DA).
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Sept 18, 2018 11:03:46 GMT -5
Logic has no place in GA Soccer. Combining Fowler and Norcross would produce a very solid team. And South Forsyth would be the logical location. It would require a little more drive time for some people from both teams, but would be worth it. They actually fielded a combined team at u12 about 3 years ago that did practice at South Forsyth. Believe it was right before they launched the u12 DA program. For some reason after DA they did not continue it. Next Spring (2020) it might happen at our age group as this years 8th graders will be in high school and the 7th graders trying to form a team. We'll see. I remember that team, it was before the age mandate with the 2003s/2004s. I think they went undefeated. I also believe of the boys that were on that team 3 or 4 are on the current AU U15s team and 2 maybe 3 are on the AU U16s non-DA team.
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Post by surgesoccer on Sept 18, 2018 18:37:11 GMT -5
I've wondered why they do not do this. Even at our location I wonder why the Premier and Red team do not practice on the same field and periodically hold joint practices. Would be a great opportunity for coaches to identify players that may be ready to move up. You would expect the lower team coaches to promote their players to the higher team, but doesn't always happen. Sometimes the lower team coach is worried about competing in their league and reluctant to lose good players. A related question is have you ever seen player trades bw Red and Premier during the season above Academy level? I think I have only seen guests playing up but existing players not relegated downward (outside of DA). No. At least not at our club. Of course sometimes clubs roster a player on the 2nd team the would normally be on the Premier team, to help out the 2nd team. Then the kid also trains with the top team and plays with top team. And with clubs having both USYS and US Club teams, nothing stops those kids from playing on either team as they could for instance be registered with SCL for One team and Classic for a different team. 2 leagues and 2 different organizations so no problem per GA Soccer. KSA last year took a 1-9 (something like that) Fall Classic team and won Classic Spring and is now in National League Tier 1, by bringing in kids from the Georgia Storm team. It obviously worked for them. As far as legitimately moving a premier kid to the second team and vice versa not much. I've seen some 2nd team players get moved when the top team lost a player due to injury. I have never seen a premier player moved to second team because a better player was promoted. It's a tough move to make from the impact to the kid and the likely backlash from the parents. Instead what you see is a kid that should be moved down starts getting less play time. So even though moving a player down might seem cruel, it would be better for the player to move down and still get a fair amount of playing time. Not sure many of us parents could handle the ego blow of that happening.
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Post by soccergurl on Sept 23, 2018 9:18:02 GMT -5
A dad just told me that atlanta united is already cutting boys. How is that even allowed when the season just begun?
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Post by SoccerMom on Sept 23, 2018 18:05:40 GMT -5
A dad just told me that atlanta united is already cutting boys. How is that even allowed when the season just begun? They cut 2 boys (01's) after season started a couple of weeks ago. One went to UFA and one went to CF
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Post by soccergurl on Sept 23, 2018 19:47:58 GMT -5
Did not know about the older boys, I was referring to boys on the younger teams. The dad said it may have been on the U12 team.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Sept 23, 2018 20:47:41 GMT -5
Did not know about the older boys, I was referring to boys on the younger teams. The dad said it may have been on the U12 team. Actually, it was on the U14s. He was not cut, but the player/parents decided to leave AU. From all indications, he was not getting much playing time or ratings and AU wanted him to play a position he was not comfortable playing. I believe this is the second player that has gone the same route and opted to leave. With all the perks and advantages AU provides, sometimes it just isn't a good fit. You have to remember that the primary goal of AU is to find the next George Bello and Andrew Carleton. At AU everyday is a tryout because there are 2-3 other boys who would easily take you place. Not to talk of the hundreds of other boys in the city, state, region who are angling for a spot on your team. This brings me to one recurring theme I hear from almost all AU parents/players. Pressure. I know it's okay for us all to chastise the play of some of these boys or man-child as we sometimes refer to them. We still have to remember that there are a lot of eyes on their play, actions, in-actions, attitudes, etc. We scrutinize almost everything associated with the AU teams. They are still kids and sometimes parents have to make the difficult decision to remove them from the high pressure environment. These boys sometimes have to learn how to transition from being The Star to learning how to adapt on a new team full of Stars. I don't know if at 11/12/13...etc. I would have the fortitude to handle the pressure.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Sept 23, 2018 20:56:19 GMT -5
A dad just told me that atlanta united is already cutting boys. How is that even allowed when the season just begun? They cut 2 boys (01's) after season started a couple of weeks ago. One went to UFA and one went to CF Expect more cuts. With TA no longer focused on coaching and instead focused on building up all the academy teams, he has been very vocal about eliminating more boys across all age-groups who are just not cutting it or buying into the AU way of doing things. He will be clamping down on troublemakers and disrupters also. He did mention he intends on finding boys who are cut, new homes to play out of, but will no longer be waiting till the May/June window to make cuts. He has also reiterated his desire to move boys trending upwards or rating high on each team to play up and learn the game at the older and faster pace. I've also learned that starting at the end of the U14 year, AU will rate and evaluate the players and put them on a College-track or the Pro-track.
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Post by ilove8amgames on Sept 24, 2018 6:43:43 GMT -5
Spoiler alert, according to AU and TA himself, 99.9% of kids at AU are on the college track. Don’t fall into the trap, emphasize school work and grades as much, if not more than, soccer.
Blasphemy, right? But that is the truth.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Sept 24, 2018 6:58:11 GMT -5
Spoiler alert, according to AU and TA himself, 99.9% of kids at AU are on the college track. Don’t fall into the trap, emphasize school work and grades as much, if not more than, soccer. Blasphemy, right? But that is the truth. I believe the quote from TA was in a room of all the U12/13/14/15/17s there was one, maybe two "professional soccer players." I was referring to the 4 or 5 chosen ones per team who the club will invest more time, training, marketing to. The rest are all role players who are there to prop up the chosen ones. The beauty is you get a real chance at getting a college scholarship of some sort
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 24, 2018 9:21:10 GMT -5
Hence why i'm not sure why they invest so much money in the younger age groups -- maybe US soccer doesn't allow it, but seems given the costs, that maybe they should only have the 3 older age groups. Seems the local clubs did a pretty good job with Bello right?
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Post by ilove8amgames on Sept 24, 2018 10:33:57 GMT -5
Was there and heard that comment. Had separate conversations on topic. My point remains, everyone at AU and CF, UFA, SSA, etc are on the college track.
Some kids at AU get called up to national team, play up a year, and other little perks. But we all knew going in that college was the likely outcome. While they do get rid of players who have not kept up to the speed of pace, they usually seem to ask kids to leave for behavior. No more or less than any other club we’ve been at.
AU has been great with this communication and I just hope all the parents hear it. Many parents, sadly, still act as if they have not gotten this message.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 25, 2018 7:50:47 GMT -5
How about the effort by the North Carolina FC Youth South boys teams over the weekend vs AU - u13s won 4-1 u14s lost 13-0 u15s won 1-0 (NCFC combined team) u17s lost 1-0 (NCFC combined team) u19s won 1-0 (NCFC combined team)
13-0 is ugly, but the rest are pretty dang impressive. Also who the heck runs the score up with 13 goals, call the dogs off at 10.
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Post by Upper90 on Sept 25, 2018 9:50:18 GMT -5
How about the effort by the North Carolina FC Youth South boys teams over the weekend vs AU - u13s won 4-1 u14s lost 13-0 u15s won 1-0 (NCFC combined team) u17s lost 1-0 (NCFC combined team) u19s won 1-0 (NCFC combined team) 13-0 is ugly, but the rest are pretty dang impressive. Also who the heck runs the score up with 13 goals, call the dogs off at 10. *Just for the record, coach did take out a player, so the U14s did purposefully play a man down...😏
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Sept 25, 2018 13:35:31 GMT -5
How about the effort by the North Carolina FC Youth South boys teams over the weekend vs AU - u13s won 4-1 u14s lost 13-0 u15s won 1-0 (NCFC combined team) u17s lost 1-0 (NCFC combined team) u19s won 1-0 (NCFC combined team) 13-0 is ugly, but the rest are pretty dang impressive. Also who the heck runs the score up with 13 goals, call the dogs off at 10. From what parents who were there said, they played down one player and moved all strikers and mid-fielders to play defense and moved the defenders to the front. In addition they also cross matched players who play on the right side of the pitch to the left and vice-versa. The real questions I have in regards to youth soccer are: - When is it considered running up the score? - What is a good score to turn off the scoring machine, 10, 12, 14, etc? - What about the kids who don't get a chance at score? - How does the other team feel about playing against 1, 2, 3 less players? - Should the official score be capped at 10, why not 8 or 6, or 12? - Should there be different rules for DA vs ECNL vs NPL vs SCCL vs Academy/Select? - Is it worse when it's a girls team vs a boys team? I'm not trying to make a case for one side or the other, but would genuinely like to get feedback from an experienced bunch of coaches, parents, players on here as to what the right thing to do here? I will sit back and wait for your responses.
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Post by USoCcer on Sept 25, 2018 14:01:35 GMT -5
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Post by Upper90 on Sept 25, 2018 14:03:30 GMT -5
How about the effort by the North Carolina FC Youth South boys teams over the weekend vs AU - u13s won 4-1 u14s lost 13-0 u15s won 1-0 (NCFC combined team) u17s lost 1-0 (NCFC combined team) u19s won 1-0 (NCFC combined team) 13-0 is ugly, but the rest are pretty dang impressive. Also who the heck runs the score up with 13 goals, call the dogs off at 10. From what parents who were there said, they played down one player and moved all strikers and mid-fielders to play defense and moved the defenders to the front. In addition they also cross matched players who play on the right side of the pitch to the left and vice-versa. The real questions I have in regards to youth soccer are: - When is it considered running up the score? - What is a good score to turn off the scoring machine, 10, 12, 14, etc? - What about the kids who don't get a chance at score? - How does the other team feel about playing against 1, 2, 3 less players? - Should the official score be capped at 10, why not 8 or 6, or 12? - Should there be different rules for DA vs ECNL vs NPL vs SCCL vs Academy/Select? - Is it worse when it's a girls team vs a boys team? I'm not trying to make a case for one side or the other, but would genuinely like to get feedback from an experienced bunch of coaches, parents, players on here as to what the right thing to do here? I will sit back and wait for your responses. Yes, I should have also added that the U14 team did make several other adjustments to try & even out the playing field so to speak. Keep in mind this same team lost 8-0 the previous day. Every team across the DA board isn't of the same talent level (obviously).... Capping scores, removing players, girls vs boys this is all so 2018. I am not trying to be harsh, but these aren't rec leagues or anything even close...sometimes you are on the losing end of the stick (literally). I want my kids to know losing sucks whether it's a close score or you get pounded, but how you come back from that loss is really what matters. Yes, there will always be those teams that abuse the sporting norms so-to-speak, but that too is part of the game.
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Post by mightydawg on Sept 25, 2018 14:33:12 GMT -5
Honestly, there should be a mercy rule. No one gets anything out of a severely lopsided game.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Sept 25, 2018 17:02:18 GMT -5
Honestly, there should be a mercy rule. No one gets anything out of a severely lopsided game. How do you implement a mercy rule? Stop play or stop the winning team from scoring any more goals? Or do the goals no longer count? If so, what would the score need to be for the mercy rule to kick in, 8, 12, 20? Finally, what if a team is able to score 8, 12, 20 goals in 10 minutes, would we then suspend the game for the mercy rule to kick in?
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Post by mightydawg on Sept 26, 2018 9:09:13 GMT -5
Honestly, there should be a mercy rule. No one gets anything out of a severely lopsided game. How do you implement a mercy rule? Stop play or stop the winning team from scoring any more goals? Or do the goals no longer count? If so, what would the score need to be for the mercy rule to kick in, 8, 12, 20? Finally, what if a team is able to score 8, 12, 20 goals in 10 minutes, would we then suspend the game for the mercy rule to kick in? If a team goes up by 10 goals at any point after halftime, the game ends. If a coach wants to keep the mercy rule from going into effect, the coach can try all of the strategies already discussed in the thread--play weaker players, remove players from the field, shift offense to defense and vice versa. Once a team goes up by 10 goals and at least half of the game has been played, the game is over.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 26, 2018 9:58:32 GMT -5
maybe even just reporting no more than a 10 goal differential.
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Post by ilove8amgames on Sept 26, 2018 10:14:34 GMT -5
Rather than stifle competition which is healthy and coursing through all these kids veins, how about the coach and club have a realistic assessment on an individual team's abilities?
Coaches know, or should know, well before the season starts if their kids for a particular age group are strong or not. If not, drop them into a lower level league so they too can grow and compete. I'd personally rather be beat by 13-0 (and that happened to my HS soccer team back in the day) than get a 'mercy rule' applied.
Otherwise, if you step on a field, you better do you best to keep the score from being 13-0. That in itself is a great life lesson for the kids.
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Post by atv on Sept 26, 2018 11:31:00 GMT -5
Rather than stifle competition which is healthy and coursing through all these kids veins, how about the coach and club have a realistic assessment on an individual team's abilities? Coaches know, or should know, well before the season starts if their kids for a particular age group are strong or not. If not, drop them into a lower level league so they too can grow and compete. I'd personally rather be beat by 13-0 (and that happened to my HS soccer team back in the day) than get a 'mercy rule' applied. Otherwise, if you step on a field, you better do you best to keep the score from being 13-0. That in itself is a great life lesson for the kids. What a novel concept ...
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Post by soccergurl on Oct 6, 2018 19:20:37 GMT -5
Does anyone know how the scrimmage with the 2003 ODP team went? Did they win or lose? Thank you
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Oct 7, 2018 4:40:54 GMT -5
The AU U14/2005s played the ODP U16/2003s team. AU won 5-2.
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