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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Mar 30, 2020 14:06:30 GMT -5
If I had to guess, with the big ECNL move they will likely keep Forsyth Premier teams in NPL with SSA, AFC, Chattanooga (and the remaining NC teams) and make it work for another year while the landscape evolves. After all, the boys NPL is pretty strong. While it makes zero sense to me I have heard that DPL is still on the table as an option for girls premier teams. Maybe FG can weigh in as she has sources. CONGRATULATIONS to UFA for finally seeing the error of their ways and going the ECNL route. I had hoped while my kids were playing they would have gone that route but we were not that lucky. Someone may have said this already but I hope folks know that DPL is not a US Soccer league, so they are separate from USSF and can choose to give a team to whatever club they so choose. With that said, they are a little bhutt hurt that UFA has now gone the route of ECNL, so that is now in limbo. From what I've been told, UFA will keep NPL but again, I like most of us on here has not been on the sidelines and that is where you tend to "run into" the decision makers who seem more open to dishing the dirt... Because everything other than SCCL will be run as it currently is from Forsyth, this will not move the needle for the folks at the step-child Norcross location. Folks don't want to drive 30-40 mins additionally in traffic to go train in Forsyth. With the exodus of major clubs continuing in GDA, I know NTH/UFA leadership were in informal discussions about what to do [should I stay or should I go]. The week before the announcement(actually 5 days before) the negotiations begun and on Friday the 20th, it was agreed to that UFA would gain ECNL as long as they made it the top of the Pyramid. I know we're in uncharted territory with the whole Covid-19 and quarantining etc. However, on the girls side, the real play is what happens with TH girls? Are they going to keep DPL as their second team and will that team now only play internal scrimmages like they did before the break? Can they shore up the younger age groups like U13s who have nothing of value to play in. The departure of girls from TH could cause a ripple effect at other clubs and could leave a void of talent with TH's second teams. But time shall tell if we ever get back to training before Memorial day... |
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UFA ECNL
Mar 30, 2020 16:44:53 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 30, 2020 16:44:53 GMT -5
While it makes zero sense to me I have heard that DPL is still on the table as an option for girls premier teams. Maybe FG can weigh in as she has sources. CONGRATULATIONS to UFA for finally seeing the error of their ways and going the ECNL route. I had hoped while my kids were playing they would have gone that route but we were not that lucky. Someone may have said this already but I hope folks know that DPL is not a US Soccer league, so they are separate from USSF and can choose to give a team to whatever club they so choose. With that said, they are a little bhutt hurt that UFA has now gone the route of ECNL, so that is now in limbo. From what I've been told, UFA will keep NPL but again, I like most of us on here has not been on the sidelines and that is where you tend to "run into" the decision makers who seem more open to dishing the dirt... Because everything other than SCCL will be run as it currently is from Forsyth, this will not move the needle for the folks at the step-child Norcross location. Folks don't want to drive 30-40 mins additionally in traffic to go train in Forsyth. With the exodus of major clubs continuing in GDA, I know NTH/UFA leadership were in informal discussions about what to do [should I stay or should I go]. The week before the announcement(actually 5 days before) the negotiations begun and on Friday the 20th, it was agreed to that UFA would gain ECNL as long as they made it the top of the Pyramid. I know we're in uncharted territory with the whole Covid-19 and quarantining etc. However, on the girls side, the real play is what happens with TH girls? Are they going to keep DPL as their second team and will that team now only play internal scrimmages like they did before the break? Can they shore up the younger age groups like U13s who have nothing of value to play in. The departure of girls from TH could cause a ripple effect at other clubs and could leave a void of talent with TH's second teams. But time shall tell if we ever get back to training before Memorial day... You made a good point that DPL is not related to USSF so the DA is irrelevant. Two other former DA clubs (Texans and Real Colorado) also had DPL teams so are they butt hurt about that too? As we mentioned even though DPL is not related to DA officially and has non DA clubs (South Carolina Surf formerly USA Mt Pleasant, Palm Beach Gardens and now Texans, Real Colorado, former DA club West Florida Flames, and never DA/ECNL Pine Crest Premier) UFA's defection SHOULD be irrelevant. Tophat has had and likely will have some important defections at some age groups off the DA team. Will be interesting to see if that changes things for NTH in the future. There are plenty of strong players to fill those voids but will they be as good as those vacating them? Will DA be a big enough draw or the Tophat name be a big enough draw? |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Mar 30, 2020 19:01:18 GMT -5
My distrust of all these leagues goes as far back as ECNL not offering TH ECNL in forever and a day, all because of politics or other clubs voting against them getting it. How does that help develop youth soccer. No they shouldn't be bhutt hurt and like you said, I agree it should be irrelevant. I was speaking more in the context of and specifically to UFA. You have a gentleman's agreement to give a club DPL. Said club chooses to also get ECNL, now you hold said agreement in limbo. Hmmm I wonder what else it could be. If you have some insight into why they are holding it back, I'd love to know...
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UFA ECNL
Mar 31, 2020 7:23:30 GMT -5
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Post by atv on Mar 31, 2020 7:23:30 GMT -5
UFA should push for an ECRL League. If they wanted it, they could make it happen. ECRL is better for UFA now anyway, as it gives the second teams a chance to play their way into the Open Cup Division of the ECNL Playoffs. Also, who knows, a club the size of UFA (8000 players), with teams in a similar competitive platform, they may make a case for 2 top level ECNL teams similar to Concorde.
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UFA ECNL
Mar 31, 2020 7:52:42 GMT -5
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 31, 2020 7:52:42 GMT -5
UFA should push for an ECRL League. If they wanted it, they could make it happen. ECRL is better for UFA now anyway, as it brings the second teams a chance to play their way into the Open Cup Division of the ECNL Playoffs. Also, who knows, a club the size of UFA (8000 players), with teams in a similar competitive platform, they may make a case for 2 top level ECNL teams similar to Concorde. If UFA had 2 ECNL teams (doubtful that they would be given that) it would draw in additional good players to the club. If they HAD been able to do this and placed one at Norcross it would have boosted Norcross' numbers for the girls big time! ECRL is definitely a better option than NPL or SCCL for the reason you mentioned. The potential to play against ECNL teams in the open division. |
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UFA ECNL
Mar 31, 2020 9:35:27 GMT -5
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Post by atv on Mar 31, 2020 9:35:27 GMT -5
I think 2 ECNL teams “in the future” are a possibility for any of the big 5 clubs provided they have a large enough player pool, footprint, and demonstrate consistent results in an ECRL type league. Think about it. If a clubs second teams can play their way into ECNL playoffs and then proceed to complete well against ECNL teams, that would make a statement for promotion. Also, demotion of clubs that frankly aren’t getting it done.
Same thing for clubs with consistent, high level girls teams at multiple age groups. I think bigger picture is there is a format for clubs to potentially join ECRL and play their way into an ECNL position.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Mar 31, 2020 9:46:36 GMT -5
Yea - my guess there regional league continues to expand to almost the point every team is participating.
Wasn't there at some point in the Atlanta area 2nd ecnl teams traveling and playing other clubs 2nd ecnl teams -- or am I just truly crazy??
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Mar 31, 2020 10:56:27 GMT -5
UFA should push for an ECRL League. If they wanted it, they could make it happen. ECRL is better for UFA now anyway, as it brings the second teams a chance to play their way into the Open Cup Division of the ECNL Playoffs. Also, who knows, a club the size of UFA (8000 players), with teams in a similar competitive platform, they may make a case for 2 top level ECNL teams similar to Concorde. If UFA had 2 ECNL teams (doubtful that they would be given that) it would draw in additional good players to the club. If they HAD been able to do this and placed one at Norcross it would have boosted Norcross' numbers for the girls big time! ECRL is definitely a better option than NPL or SCCL for the reason you mentioned. The potential to play against ECNL teams in the open division. As much as I'd luv for UFA to get two teams(one north, one south), I don't think that will occur. I believe CF was given one when ECNL was trying to court them to leave DA. The other advantage CF had was the fact that they had both GDA and ECNL. Additionally, I fully and wholly agree with your statement " If they HAD been able to do this and placed one at Norcross it would have boosted Norcross' numbers for the girls big time!" 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽 But the idea of ECRL may make up by placing that at the Norcross location in lieu of a 2nd ECNL team... |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Mar 31, 2020 11:58:28 GMT -5
If Tophat can't have 2 elite teams be successful...I don't think anyone in this city can. We saw how Concorde's 2nd ECNL teams were when they weren't merged with SSA's first teams. Unless the 2nd teams from a lot of clubs suddenly get a LOT better, I don't expect any other local clubs to get 2 ECNL spots...
Placing the ECRL at Norcross would make sense. But then the 2nd teams at Forsyth would be not feeling the love. There would be a lot to figure out should the big 5/6 join ECRL.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Mar 31, 2020 12:19:47 GMT -5
Placing the ECRL at Norcross would make sense. But then the 2nd teams at Forsyth would be not feeling the love. There would be a lot to figure out should the big 5/6 join ECRL.
This has always been my issue with the two location in-fighting. The club has to make a real determination as to what to do about Norcross. Either sell the rights to it or shutter/abandon it. Then folks know the deal, that everything is run out of Forsyth, done. If you chose to keep that location, you have to give it viable and attractive options to keep folks there. So they started with SCCL, I think the alternate league housed at Norcross should then be ECRL. Question is if and when UFA gets boys ECNL, should it be run out of Norcross along with the DA or shouldn't that also be given to Forsyth to give the boys a viable and attractive option too? |
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Post by coffee on Mar 31, 2020 12:35:13 GMT -5
I don’t know UFA as well others here so this may overlook some major issues. Also, the ECRL and SCCL P4 are only hypothetical at the moment. How about the following:
UFA Forsyth
ECNL
SCCL1
SCCL P2
SCCL P3
UFA Norcross
ECRL
SCCL P1
SCCL P4?
I know SCCL P4 hasn’t been announced yet, but are a logical progression of the way things are going.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 31, 2020 12:36:44 GMT -5
Placing the ECRL at Norcross would make sense. But then the 2nd teams at Forsyth would be not feeling the love. There would be a lot to figure out should the big 5/6 join ECRL.
This has always been my issue with the two location in-fighting. The club has to make a real determination as to what to do about Norcross. Either sell the rights to it or shutter/abandon it. Then folks know the deal, that everything is run out of Forsyth, done. If you chose to keep that location, you have to give it viable and attractive options to keep folks there. So they started with SCCL, I think the alternate league housed at Norcross should then be ECRL. Question is if and when UFA gets boys ECNL, should it be run out of Norcross along with the DA or shouldn't that also be given to Forsyth to give the boys a viable and attractive option too? This depends on whether you think that UFA should run like Tophat and Concorde do? They are the most successful clubs (for girls) in Atlanta metro and two of the most successful clubs in the US. If you choose the Tophat, Concorde model then you choose a "main" location and have your branch locations work to feed players to your main one. This model has always worked well for those two clubs. Develop your players close to home at the academy ages and pool them together once you hit select ages and get the best of the lot. There is no reason to either sell or shutter Norcross. One option is to just publicly state your intention to have Forsyth be the main branch or split the boys and girls between Norcross and Forsyth officially. Personally I think that Forsyth should be the "main" branch (top two teams) for girls because there are already plenty of club options near Norcross and there is nothing with consistent quality that far north of the perimeter near the 400 corridor except UFA. Norcross is just one of many options for girls that live near there (as evidenced by the entry of several AFU second team players last year). I believe that there should be many options for the little ones close to home to maximize the accessibility for parents so to shutter it would not be appropriate. To sell it to someone else...why? Any club that would want it is already close by and really doesn't need it. |
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UFA ECNL
Mar 31, 2020 12:37:53 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 31, 2020 12:37:53 GMT -5
I don’t know UFA as well others here so this may overlook some major issues. Also, the ECRL and SCCL P4 are of course hypothetical. How about the following: UFA ForsythECNL SCCL1 SCCL P2 SCCL P3 UFA NorcrossECRL SCCL P1 SCCL P4? At most age groups for the girls Forsyth averages 4 teams and Norcross averages 1. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Mar 31, 2020 13:30:59 GMT -5
Norcross is definitely catercorner to AFU and GSA which both have ECNL options. Norcross will never be able to compete at ECNL level. UFA could call Forsyth top team as "Premier" and make Norcross Premier the 2nd team, and Forsyth 2nd team as the club's 3rd team.
But are Norcross's 1st teams as good as Forsyth's 2nd team, my guess would be "usually no". Typically they're probably 1-2 point differential below in head-to-head matches.
So what should UFA do? Take back SCCL for Forsyth and let Norcross compete in SCCL-P? I'd say "maybe next year" (2021-22) (I'm betting that's probably what AFU is going to do with Henry County). Forsyth Premier will likely stay in girls NPL for 2020-21 see what happens with NPL next year. IMO it would require a strengthening of the league to desire to stay in the league.
As for SCCL/ECRL overall, yes the big clubs want control as much as possible...BUT...they're all in ECNL/DA anyways, so apparently prestige >>> control. Will ECRL have more prestige than SCCL, my guess would be yes. And besides, they can always move their 3rd teams to SCCL and everything below that to SCCL-P...mind you, many of those 3rd teams would struggle...so time to recruit!
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Post by Soccerhouse on Mar 31, 2020 14:30:44 GMT -5
Will be interesting as well what they charge for girls ecnl.
I think currently pay $1955 for registration fees for DA
then anywhere between $1200 - $5000 for travel fees depending upon age group.
Hopefully they keep registration fees around the $1955, which are cheaper then their younger ages top teams fees.
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Post by atv on Mar 31, 2020 15:03:25 GMT -5
Interesting enough the addition of UFA moves the number of teams to 12 in the SE conference. 6 in FL and 6 in GA/ AL. Breaking the conference into (North and South) flights like they currently have in the Midwest Conference would make a lot of sense.
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Post by atv on Mar 31, 2020 15:05:39 GMT -5
One could easily make the case that UFA could carry one ECNL team and two ECRL teams given their numbers and locations.
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Post by soccernoleuk on Mar 31, 2020 16:03:21 GMT -5
I don’t know UFA as well others here so this may overlook some major issues. Also, the ECRL and SCCL P4 are only hypothetical at the moment. How about the following: UFA ForsythECNL SCCL1 SCCL P2 SCCL P3 UFA NorcrossECRL SCCL P1 SCCL P4? I know SCCL P4 hasn’t been announced yet, but are a logical progression of the way things are going. So, based on this you would rank the leagues as follows? ECNL ECRL SCCL-1 SCCL-P1 SCCL-P2 SCCL-P3 SCCL-P4 If that is the case, I think UFA should solely base ECNL out of Forsyth. From there they should make the teams play one another and slot them based on actual quality of the team. If you only break it out the way you have it, there is a possibility teams placed in lower level leagues are actually better than teams placed in higher level leagues (SCCL-P2 team potentially better than ECRL team as an example). That isn't necessarily fair to anyone involved (players at either location or their opponents). |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Mar 31, 2020 18:13:30 GMT -5
Right, but would anyone actually buy into knowing your league only AFTER you've signed and gone through fall camp?
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Post by honeybadger on Mar 31, 2020 18:47:18 GMT -5
Very interesting comments here. Are people saying that IF UFA gets ECRL in the next year or so, it would make sense to put it at Norcross so that they could then attract more players to build their depth at their location?
I just assumed the only thoughts would be to put it at Forsyth.
Very interesting.
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UFA ECNL
Mar 31, 2020 19:01:41 GMT -5
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Post by dadofthree on Mar 31, 2020 19:01:41 GMT -5
One thing that we are all assuming is that it is a given that UFA has given up DA (which I think really happened but since we are playing what ifs) What if they technically made the DA their 2nd team out of Norcross? Technically if you look at the DA website they are listed as based in Norcross. The ECNL announcement did not say all in like the previous one only that they would make it the top team. If they use the DA as their 2nd team they see if they can play well enough and steal enough folks from AFU and GSA to at least be as competative as they are now and if they get kicked out so be it and by then they have maybe an ECRL league up and running (West Coast Flames model moving from DA to DPL except it being ECRL). To my knowledge no one has tried to have DA across the country being the 2nd team is UFA going to try?
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Post by honeybadger on Mar 31, 2020 19:06:32 GMT -5
No. I know for a fact that DA is gone from UFA
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UFA ECNL
Mar 31, 2020 19:09:07 GMT -5
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Post by atlfutboldad on Mar 31, 2020 19:09:07 GMT -5
USSF DA would kick UFA out before that happened. DA will only take a clubs best team. If the first team from Forsyth was struggled in DA, Norvross's team would really struggle, especially with West Florida out of the mix.
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UFA ECNL
Apr 1, 2020 6:44:20 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by atv on Apr 1, 2020 6:44:20 GMT -5
“””Question is if and when UFA gets boys ECNL, should it be run out of Norcross along with the DA or shouldn't that also be given to Forsyth to give the boys a viable and attractive option too?[“”””/quote]
I hope not. Most clubs still carrying Boys ECNL and DA are non competitive in ECNL . The only exception is probably Concorde, as they are fielding a few very good ECNL teams. I could be wrong but I don’t see ECNL offering Boys ECNL to clubs as a second tier going forward. This was when the league first started and to my knowledge hasn’t been the trend with more recent additions.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Apr 1, 2020 7:16:16 GMT -5
This has always been my issue with the two location in-fighting. The club has to make a real determination as to what to do about Norcross. Either sell the rights to it or shutter/abandon it. Then folks know the deal, that everything is run out of Forsyth, done. If you chose to keep that location, you have to give it viable and attractive options to keep folks there. So they started with SCCL, I think the alternate league housed at Norcross should then be ECRL. Question is if and when UFA gets boys ECNL, should it be run out of Norcross along with the DA or shouldn't that also be given to Forsyth to give the boys a viable and attractive option too? This depends on whether you think that UFA should run like Tophat and Concorde do? They are the most successful clubs (for girls) in Atlanta metro and two of the most successful clubs in the US. If you choose the Tophat, Concorde model then you choose a "main" location and have your branch locations work to feed players to your main one. This model has always worked well for those two clubs. Develop your players close to home at the academy ages and pool them together once you hit select ages and get the best of the lot. There is no reason to either sell or shutter Norcross. One option is to just publicly state your intention to have Forsyth be the main branch or split the boys and girls between Norcross and Forsyth officially. Personally I think that Forsyth should be the "main" branch (top two teams) for girls because there are already plenty of club options near Norcross and there is nothing with consistent quality that far north of the perimeter near the 400 corridor except UFA. Norcross is just one of many options for girls that live near there (as evidenced by the entry of several AFU second team players last year). I believe that there should be many options for the little ones close to home to maximize the accessibility for parents so to shutter it would not be appropriate. To sell it to someone else...why? Any club that would want it is already close by and really doesn't need it. I agree with everything you stated, my only hesitation with taking an ALL-IN approach with Forsyth vs Norcross is that as much as I luv UFA, it's no TH/CF especially on the girls side of the house. Norcross will not be able to survive should all the decent girls program be housed in Forsyth. Girls come from far n wide for TH/CF but alas, that is not the case currently for UFA. So the question then is why keep the Norcross branch, at least for girls. If UFA wants to keep both locations, I say take an alternate approach. Make Forsyth the Girls Center of Excellence, while making Norcross the same for the Boys. Keep the younger age groups co-ed till U13 and then separate them by location. But even that is difficult for families who have both boys n girls and practices around the same time... |
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UFA ECNL
Apr 1, 2020 8:01:28 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by atv on Apr 1, 2020 8:01:28 GMT -5
How competitive will UFA teams be in the ECNL SE Conference? Scrimmages aren’t always a good predictor. Is it fair to say they would finish in the upper half of the league or better?
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Apr 1, 2020 9:14:57 GMT -5
I would say CF is the top ECNL team in Georgia. So the real question is where does UFA stand in comparison to CF? Currently, this is where CF lands in the standings. Compare that to UFA's teams and that should give you an idea of where they would land in the standings...
U13 - 6/7
U14 - 3/9
U15 - 1/3
U16 - 1/7
U17 - 1/9
U18 - 1/6
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Post by soccerloafer on Apr 1, 2020 9:24:01 GMT -5
Tophat's central location is a competitive advantage. It's not too hard (traffic wise) to get INTO town for an evening practice. It is super hard to get OUT of town (to UFA / GSA / AFU from ITP) or ACROSS town (Cobb to Gwinnett or Forsyth, etc).
CF has a similar advantage, but dispersion of fields makes it harder.
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Post by mistergrinch on Apr 1, 2020 9:48:36 GMT -5
This depends on whether you think that UFA should run like Tophat and Concorde do? They are the most successful clubs (for girls) in Atlanta metro and two of the most successful clubs in the US. If you choose the Tophat, Concorde model then you choose a "main" location and have your branch locations work to feed players to your main one. This model has always worked well for those two clubs. Develop your players close to home at the academy ages and pool them together once you hit select ages and get the best of the lot. There is no reason to either sell or shutter Norcross. One option is to just publicly state your intention to have Forsyth be the main branch or split the boys and girls between Norcross and Forsyth officially. Personally I think that Forsyth should be the "main" branch (top two teams) for girls because there are already plenty of club options near Norcross and there is nothing with consistent quality that far north of the perimeter near the 400 corridor except UFA. Norcross is just one of many options for girls that live near there (as evidenced by the entry of several AFU second team players last year). I believe that there should be many options for the little ones close to home to maximize the accessibility for parents so to shutter it would not be appropriate. To sell it to someone else...why? Any club that would want it is already close by and really doesn't need it. I agree with everything you stated, my only hesitation with taking an ALL-IN approach with Forsyth vs Norcross is that as much as I luv UFA, it's no TH/CF especially on the girls side of the house. Norcross will not be able to survive should all the decent girls program be housed in Forsyth. Girls come from far n wide for TH/CF but alas, that is not the case currently for UFA. So the question then is why keep the Norcross branch, at least for girls. If UFA wants to keep both locations, I say take an alternate approach. Make Forsyth the Girls Center of Excellence, while making Norcross the same for the Boys. Keep the younger age groups co-ed till U13 and then separate them by location. But even that is difficult for families who have both boys n girls and practices around the same time... A lot of the boys already practice at the south facility - not far from Norcross, so this approach may make sense. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 1, 2020 10:59:52 GMT -5
It doesn't help the situation that Gwinnett county won't turf pinckneyville park -- at least a single field would make a huge difference.
Major plug to UFA, their DA teams do not miss training sessions due to weather --- (advantage for sure of playing DA -- all training sessions occur and typically are the full regularly schedule training sessions of 1.5 hours)
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