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Post by atlfutboldad on Jul 20, 2020 16:04:04 GMT -5
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jul 20, 2020 16:09:06 GMT -5
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 20, 2020 16:09:40 GMT -5
You are correct about Cherokee having a digital learning choice. However, being a parent of Cherokee students we discovered by talking to county school leaders, principals and athletics directors that the current digital solution is not NCAA approved. A waiver has been requested; however this waiver may not be granted until December 2020 and if the waiver is rejected then all the work the student has completed will not be recognized by the NCAA. If you have a child that is interested in playing sports at a NCAA school you have to take that into consideration; a chance that the waiver isn’t accepted. That’s the unfortunate situation in Cherokee for those interested in having their child opt into the digital learning program. Before Fulton decided to do all digital we had friends tell us that some honors classes would not be offered digitally for high school. AP classes would be offered but historically those online AP classes did not have good performance records on the AP exams. She felt like she was forced to go in person in order to do what what was best for her kids academically. Now it is a moot point, but would not surprise me if there were issues like this and the NCAA eligibility issue mentioned above. |
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Post by bogan on Jul 20, 2020 16:45:01 GMT -5
Recently also the national and local media also states that hospitals were full and assuming they were covid-19 patients. A honest doctor in Athens spoke out and said that only 10% of their hospital beds are covid-19 right now. The rest are patients that had put off surgeries and other people with other conditions. So lets think about this, how much is this going on throughout the country and the national media is just spouting off hospital capacity issues and not breaking down those numbers to actual covid patients compared to other things. I hope more honest doctors start coming out and calling BS when they see it. What I’ve heard from a local physician is that it’s up and down but it’s not near capacity. I can tell you he’s really tired though. |
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Post by mightydawg on Jul 20, 2020 16:57:00 GMT -5
Letter from CEO Kevin Payne | COVID-19 and the 2020-21 season
July 20, 2020
Dear members,
The prospect of any new season brings optimism and renewed passion. And while that's true for the 2020-21 season, there's also good reason to balance excitement with caution. The COVID-19 pandemic is still very real and affecting many states around the country – in some areas worse than ever.
We must harness that optimism and passion and apply an unrelenting commitment to everyone's health and safety. Like most organizations, we made difficult decisions to suspend or cancel programming in the 2019-20 season. And we'd like nothing more than to turn the page and welcome the 2020-21 season without restraint. But, all of us must continue to ask ourselves if our actions are responsible for all our families – both our club soccer families and our families at home.
Recognizing the wide range of impact that COVID-19 is having throughout the country, US Club Soccer lifted its national suspension of activities on May 18, which delegated the return-to-play decision making to our members. Our stance on returning to play remains the same as it was in mid-May: abide by local public health regulations and enjoy a safe return to the game we all love. Those can, and should, be done in harmony.
As a reminder: for activities to be sanctioned with the normal US Club Soccer-provided insurance coverage in effect, members returning to play must be in compliance with requirements/mandates established by the applicable local and state public health authorities.
Of course, US Club Soccer always encourages members to follow optional guidelines or recommendations established by local and state public health authorities, to the extent applicable and possible. Members should err on the side of caution in health and safety matters.
There have been new return-to-play resources released in recent weeks, which are detailed below. For insurance-related questions, please refer to the COVID-19 section of our Insurance web page.
Return-to-play resources:
CDC's directory of local, state and territorial health departments
CDC's COVID-19 Considerations for Youth Sports
U.S. Soccer PLAY ON: Return-to-Play Guidelines (Phases 1, 2 and 3 are all available)
ECNL’s Recommendations for Returning to Play:
To training environments
To competitions
Players First partner Player's Health web page: archived Facebook Live episode, discounted Kinduct COVID-19 screening for teams, return-to-play guide and discounted imPACT concussion testing
**
We remain as proud as ever of the resilience of the soccer community. Together, we will not just return to the way things used to be, but we'll form an even more fulfilling, Players First-focused environment for every child.
Sincerely,
Kevin Payne
CEO/Executive Director
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jul 20, 2020 17:00:47 GMT -5
Letter from CEO Kevin Payne | COVID-19 and the 2020-21 season July 20, 2020 Dear members, The prospect of any new season brings optimism and renewed passion. And while that's true for the 2020-21 season, there's also good reason to balance excitement with caution. The COVID-19 pandemic is still very real and affecting many states around the country – in some areas worse than ever. We must harness that optimism and passion and apply an unrelenting commitment to everyone's health and safety. Like most organizations, we made difficult decisions to suspend or cancel programming in the 2019-20 season. And we'd like nothing more than to turn the page and welcome the 2020-21 season without restraint. But, all of us must continue to ask ourselves if our actions are responsible for all our families – both our club soccer families and our families at home. Recognizing the wide range of impact that COVID-19 is having throughout the country, US Club Soccer lifted its national suspension of activities on May 18, which delegated the return-to-play decision making to our members. Our stance on returning to play remains the same as it was in mid-May: abide by local public health regulations and enjoy a safe return to the game we all love. Those can, and should, be done in harmony. As a reminder: for activities to be sanctioned with the normal US Club Soccer-provided insurance coverage in effect, members returning to play must be in compliance with requirements/mandates established by the applicable local and state public health authorities. Of course, US Club Soccer always encourages members to follow optional guidelines or recommendations established by local and state public health authorities, to the extent applicable and possible. Members should err on the side of caution in health and safety matters. There have been new return-to-play resources released in recent weeks, which are detailed below. For insurance-related questions, please refer to the COVID-19 section of our Insurance web page. Return-to-play resources: CDC's directory of local, state and territorial health departments CDC's COVID-19 Considerations for Youth Sports U.S. Soccer PLAY ON: Return-to-Play Guidelines (Phases 1, 2 and 3 are all available) ECNL’s Recommendations for Returning to Play: To training environments To competitions Players First partner Player's Health web page: archived Facebook Live episode, discounted Kinduct COVID-19 screening for teams, return-to-play guide and discounted imPACT concussion testing ** We remain as proud as ever of the resilience of the soccer community. Together, we will not just return to the way things used to be, but we'll form an even more fulfilling, Players First-focused environment for every child. Sincerely, Kevin Payne CEO/Executive Director Those of us that want soccer back need to write him and give him encouragement to not back down and not get scared and don't go back on it. Open it up and let the chips fall where they may. |
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Post by ball2futbol on Jul 20, 2020 17:40:18 GMT -5
Slickdaddy, I showed similar data Friday and asked someone/anyone to give a data driven (e.g. objective) answer of when we can go to school in person. Crickets. No objective metric offered. I truly think people are so fearful and emotional about this that they want zero deaths zero hospitalizations. This is a virus, no deaths are impossible. Like I said Friday, look at the NE where the death tolls really cannot go any lower--yet most schools are going virtual. (That said, the invitation is still there-- I'd love to know where the goal posts are planted.) Does anyone have data on the day-to-day occupancy percentages for metro atlanta office real estate these days? If that's not available maybe the year-over-year monthly office occupancy averages for April, May and June 2019 to 2020? While we're at it maybe find some projections comparing Q3, 2019 to 2020. Just curious if some of our statisticians can look that up for the group? Alright my friend fridge I'll make a deal with you. How about all virtual teaching gets cancelled and everyone goes back to school full-time, if and when the occupancy percentage in metro area office space returns to say... 90% pre-covid, no better yet 70%!? How about those goal posts or do you need to be more inside the hashes? BTW. Archdioceses of Atlanta doubled down today on going back to school in-person for all level grades. Given the ratios and plan I do see it having good odds for success. I still wouldn't be upset, if dear sister Katherine that teaches Ethics and Humanities, decided to sit the semester out. But we would most certainly miss her!  |
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Post by footyfan on Jul 20, 2020 18:16:25 GMT -5
Letter from CEO Kevin Payne | COVID-19 and the 2020-21 season July 20, 2020 Dear members, The prospect of any new season brings optimism and renewed passion. And while that's true for the 2020-21 season, there's also good reason to balance excitement with caution. The COVID-19 pandemic is still very real and affecting many states around the country – in some areas worse than ever. We must harness that optimism and passion and apply an unrelenting commitment to everyone's health and safety. Like most organizations, we made difficult decisions to suspend or cancel programming in the 2019-20 season. And we'd like nothing more than to turn the page and welcome the 2020-21 season without restraint. But, all of us must continue to ask ourselves if our actions are responsible for all our families – both our club soccer families and our families at home. Recognizing the wide range of impact that COVID-19 is having throughout the country, US Club Soccer lifted its national suspension of activities on May 18, which delegated the return-to-play decision making to our members. Our stance on returning to play remains the same as it was in mid-May: abide by local public health regulations and enjoy a safe return to the game we all love. Those can, and should, be done in harmony. As a reminder: for activities to be sanctioned with the normal US Club Soccer-provided insurance coverage in effect, members returning to play must be in compliance with requirements/mandates established by the applicable local and state public health authorities. Of course, US Club Soccer always encourages members to follow optional guidelines or recommendations established by local and state public health authorities, to the extent applicable and possible. Members should err on the side of caution in health and safety matters. There have been new return-to-play resources released in recent weeks, which are detailed below. For insurance-related questions, please refer to the COVID-19 section of our Insurance web page. Return-to-play resources: CDC's directory of local, state and territorial health departments CDC's COVID-19 Considerations for Youth Sports U.S. Soccer PLAY ON: Return-to-Play Guidelines (Phases 1, 2 and 3 are all available) ECNL’s Recommendations for Returning to Play: To training environments To competitions Players First partner Player's Health web page: archived Facebook Live episode, discounted Kinduct COVID-19 screening for teams, return-to-play guide and discounted imPACT concussion testing ** We remain as proud as ever of the resilience of the soccer community. Together, we will not just return to the way things used to be, but we'll form an even more fulfilling, Players First-focused environment for every child. Sincerely, Kevin Payne CEO/Executive Director Those of us that want soccer back need to write him and give him encouragement to not back down and not get scared and don't go back on it. Open it up and let the chips fall where they may. We all want soccer back, but I think Kevin Payne has much bigger concerns than our local infowars clown. But by all means, tell him what you... think(?) |
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Post by mistercalcio on Jul 20, 2020 20:01:43 GMT -5
I’m constantly amazed at how non-empathetic some of the posters on this forum are. It’s a cliche that having children makes you look at the world in a different way but some of you consistently prove to be the exceptions to that rule. How ridiculous do you want to sound when you constantly post things referring to flu comparisons, “so many more people die in car crashes!”, “the risk levels are so low for groups A, B, and C!”, etc etc etc. A psychologist could have a field day with some of the statements posted so seriously on here. Well here is the deal dude. I do care about people dying, but people do die everyday for things that we take bigger risks on everyday. I am a logical person. Stats and logic should prevail in any government regulations or measures. The fact is the mortality rate in people Under 1 to 17 in GA the last time I checked was 0.011%. Go look at the mortality rate for flu, accidents (accidents can be car or other), etc.... you can see yourself that the risk is a lot more in kids for those things than this virus. It seems as if people comparing it to the flu is a dog whistle for you, but I'm sorry while some people comparing certain stats with this virus to the flu is wrong, in my examples it is not. “I do care about people dying, but...” I could just leave it there by pointing out that that was your essential first statement (and is one of the most common statements made by people with narcissistic personality disorder) BUT You consistently forget (Or more likely ignore) the absolute fact that COVID has multiple, severe long term effects that the flu does not - so no, your examples are still wrong and you still don’t pay attention to that. You just are. It’s been more than just me who has pointed that out and you casually divert to other aspects. So yeah... you’re just wrong and if you want to call that a dog whistle for me, I’ll be the bloodhound that calls you out for your wrongness every time. You may be slick, but you’re not smart or empathetic. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jul 21, 2020 7:21:54 GMT -5
Those of us that want soccer back need to write him and give him encouragement to not back down and not get scared and don't go back on it. Open it up and let the chips fall where they may. We all want soccer back, but I think Kevin Payne has much bigger concerns than our local infowars clown. But by all means, tell him what you... think(?) I'm sorry dude, you are a dang moron that ASSume things about people you have no clue. You can visit my other post in the GHSA thread for my extended comments, but its obvious you are a left wing partisan hack that gets his jollies calling people names on anonymous forums. Just remember who started the name calling first. It was you. Why don't you just ignore my threads for now on if you can not give substance and facts in any discussion with me and instead just name call which is the normal arrogant liberal tactic when they can't debate or won't debate topics. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jul 21, 2020 7:24:49 GMT -5
Well here is the deal dude. I do care about people dying, but people do die everyday for things that we take bigger risks on everyday. I am a logical person. Stats and logic should prevail in any government regulations or measures. The fact is the mortality rate in people Under 1 to 17 in GA the last time I checked was 0.011%. Go look at the mortality rate for flu, accidents (accidents can be car or other), etc.... you can see yourself that the risk is a lot more in kids for those things than this virus. It seems as if people comparing it to the flu is a dog whistle for you, but I'm sorry while some people comparing certain stats with this virus to the flu is wrong, in my examples it is not. “I do care about people dying, but...” I could just leave it there by pointing out that that was your essential first statement (and is one of the most common statements made by people with narcissistic personality disorder) BUT You consistently forget (Or more likely ignore) the absolute fact that COVID has multiple, severe long term effects that the flu does not - so no, your examples are still wrong and you still don’t pay attention to that. You just are. It’s been more than just me who has pointed that out and you casually divert to other aspects. So yeah... you’re just wrong and if you want to call that a dog whistle for me, I’ll be the bloodhound that calls you out for your wrongness every time. You may be slick, but you’re not smart or empathetic. Please Mr. Psychologist give me the stats in what % of covid cases are severe long term effects happening. Also please give me the breakdown on what % of those people already had comorbidities and which were healthy. I'll wait. Frankly I'm sick and tired of the antecedent argument of pointing out a few rare cases here or there to try to scare or convince people. Give me stats. Let us make our own decision based on stats not antecedents. By the way leave your psycho babble for someone who gives a crap. I'm not paying you to analyze me. I got a minor in Psychology I can do a pretty good job of that myself. I do find that most Psychologists though have their own issues and can't help themselves so they decide to help everyone else as a deflection. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 21, 2020 7:47:26 GMT -5
“I do care about people dying, but...” I could just leave it there by pointing out that that was your essential first statement (and is one of the most common statements made by people with narcissistic personality disorder) BUT You consistently forget (Or more likely ignore) the absolute fact that COVID has multiple, severe long term effects that the flu does not - so no, your examples are still wrong and you still don’t pay attention to that. You just are. It’s been more than just me who has pointed that out and you casually divert to other aspects. So yeah... you’re just wrong and if you want to call that a dog whistle for me, I’ll be the bloodhound that calls you out for your wrongness every time. You may be slick, but you’re not smart or empathetic. Please Mr. Psychologist give me the stats in what % of covid cases are severe long term effects happening. Also please give me the breakdown on what % of those people already had comorbidities and which were healthy. I'll wait. Frankly I'm sick and tired of the antecedent argument of pointing out a few rare cases here or there to try to scare or convince people. Give me stats. Let us make our own decision based on stats not antecedents. By the way leave your psycho babble for someone who gives a crap. I'm not paying you to analyze me. I got a minor in Psychology I can do a pretty good job of that myself. I do find that most Psychologists though have their own issues and can't help themselves so they decide to help everyone else as a deflection. You are correct that people need to make decisions based on facts and not case studies or case series, but I have 2 points to make about this. First, we are still low on facts and statistics because it is a developing pandemic and we have little clear cut data to use. Each state is making their own decisions on what to track and how so our data is a hot mess. Second, while decisions about percentage chances are made and optimism is there when percentage for full recovery is high like it SEEMS to be with Covid in the young, healthy population it still sucks to be on the wrong side of the percentages and people need to decide for themselves on their level of acceptable risk. This applies to individuals but public health officials have a lot more to consider than just individual risk. They must consider resources (hospital beds, doctors and nurses available, medications available, PPE available and so on). As a personal story on the wrong side of percentages I had a cousin who had Hodgkins lymphoma which is 96% curable. She died. She was 11 years old. I do not advocate for soccer to be closed and I will hate it if my kids have to do online school again. I was super happy to see a lot of people wearing masks OUTSIDE at Brusters ice cream the other day and they all respected the big signs on the ground for where to stand. This sort of RESPECT for the virus and other's safety is great to see. This sort of behavior will allow for us to get back into school and on the fields. We did not respect the devastation that the virus can cause in the spring despite the closures of so many things. Hopefully people will do their part to stop the spread so we can continue to play! |
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 21, 2020 8:27:15 GMT -5
Slickdaddy96 and fridge: spot on. We all know why the "crisis" is happening , though people don't want to mention it. It's so obvious this is so overblown if you'd just watch who is leading the march. But we can't say it or the "experts" on this board who will hammer us for it. Of course, the virus is real. But all I know is this: I know two couples PERSONALLY here in Ga who went to get a covid test. Signed the paperwork, stood in line, got tired of waiting. Went. Got notified by mail they had covid-though they weren't tested. My own family in Birmingham went and got tested. He tested positive. The other 4 members of the house hold did not. They doctor wrote down "5 caes of covid" even though he was the only one tested. Gee, why would they do that? I know for a fact 334 test centers in Florida reported on one particular day that all 5,000 people tested were positive. That is statistically impossible. You be be in a closed room of 5,000 people breathing on eacher and not all 5,000 would get COVID. Either the Tampa or Orlando newstation did an investigative story on it (google it if you need to I forget which station) and found one center who reported 100% positive in their database actually had 9.4% positive results. You know, it's kind of like whenever the ballot boxes stuffed with votes are found in a dumpster after an election and the precinct claims it was just a mistake, the ballots just happen to always be the votes of one particular party. I'll let you all decide which party seems to always get screwed by the "mistake". You know, it's kind of like whenever the voting machine has a "malfunction" it just always seem to be on people who voted for one party but the vote registered it as a vote for the other party. I'll let you all decide which party seems to have this happen to. So yes, I'll compare it to the flu if I want to (I know, the Bill Nye Soccer Science guys on this board will laugh at comparing it to the flu) because in the end, we are talking risk of death or illness from a virus. CV19 is no worse than the flu. If you are willing to shutdown the country for CV19 but not a bad flu season, you are either being scared to death by the media, or you are a hypocrite in my opinion. Here are the major pandemics since I was born that were categorized as world wide/US only that killed the most. 1968-70: Hong Kong flu 1-3 million dead 1981 to present: AIDS/HIV 32 million + 2009: Swine flu 150,000-575,000 deaths 2017: US flu 45,000-96,000 US deaths 2019-present: COVID19 As of CDC numbers today 140,000 deaths in the US (and we know they are counting people who may have had 5 complications and if 1 of them happened to be covid the death was listed as covid. I know this because that female doctor on Trump's task force SAID they did that). Only my opinion but based on the stuff I wrote above that I personally know about, I'd say actual CV19 deaths are more likely 100,000 (in line with the seasonal flu of 2017). And that;s just my opinion. Kids need to be out in the sun, and they need to be learning in person because digital learning doesn't work in schools that are in poor areas where a 13 year old is having to digitally learn while baby sitting younger siblings because both parents have to work. I witnessed that this spring because I teach in one of those schools. Woo, honey.. that's an awful lot of barely-coherent rambling.
Now, where's the name of that epidemiologist who said masks do more harm than good? I'm still waiting..
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Post by bogan on Jul 21, 2020 8:42:34 GMT -5
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Post by mistercalcio on Jul 21, 2020 9:52:12 GMT -5
“I do care about people dying, but...” I could just leave it there by pointing out that that was your essential first statement (and is one of the most common statements made by people with narcissistic personality disorder) BUT You consistently forget (Or more likely ignore) the absolute fact that COVID has multiple, severe long term effects that the flu does not - so no, your examples are still wrong and you still don’t pay attention to that. You just are. It’s been more than just me who has pointed that out and you casually divert to other aspects. So yeah... you’re just wrong and if you want to call that a dog whistle for me, I’ll be the bloodhound that calls you out for your wrongness every time. You may be slick, but you’re not smart or empathetic. Please Mr. Psychologist give me the stats in what % of covid cases are severe long term effects happening. Also please give me the breakdown on what % of those people already had comorbidities and which were healthy. I'll wait. Frankly I'm sick and tired of the antecedent argument of pointing out a few rare cases here or there to try to scare or convince people. Give me stats. Let us make our own decision based on stats not antecedents. By the way leave your psycho babble for someone who gives a crap. I'm not paying you to analyze me. I got a minor in Psychology I can do a pretty good job of that myself. I do find that most Psychologists though have their own issues and can't help themselves so they decide to help everyone else as a deflection. Ok. www.bbc.com/future/article/20200622-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-infectionAgain - you’re not only wrong, but also irresponsibly defiant to what hundreds of studies around the world are discovering in their findings. U big mad that you’re wrong and super easy to touch nerves on 😂😂😂 |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jul 21, 2020 9:52:46 GMT -5
WSJ paywall.
There are SO MANY variables here, and the asymptomatic carriers and longer incubation periods are the big intangibles here, not the deadliness of the disease, because simply more people have gotten it and are going to get it. Secondly there isn't a universally defined protocol on how to treat the damn thing, hopefully the Brits interferon study is the magic bullet for treatment (an existing treatment, not something new we have to pay out the *** to get). Lastly, the part to compare with regard to mortality, is mortality per age group. IIRC, COVID is less deadly than flu under 20 years old, about equal 20-30, 30-40 marginally higher, then it goes up exponentially after age 40.
Also, I thought the point of masks is so that we don't NEED to follow distancing guidelines while wearing them?
Moving outdoor sports that aren't scrum-oriented back is pointless, no matter how long you wait, COVID will be there. Its like Freddy or Jason.
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 21, 2020 10:15:37 GMT -5
Also, I thought the point of masks is so that we don't NEED to follow distancing guidelines while wearing them? Think of it like.. you still use a seatbelt even though you have airbags.
Masks good. Masks + distancing = better.
The sooner we stop spreading, the sooner we can get back to normal... for example, virtually every other first world country.
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Post by bogan on Jul 21, 2020 10:24:06 GMT -5
“Its like Freddy or Jason.”
More like Amityville Horror...you slowly go insane.
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 21, 2020 10:37:43 GMT -5
Please Mr. Psychologist give me the stats in what % of covid cases are severe long term effects happening. Also please give me the breakdown on what % of those people already had comorbidities and which were healthy. I'll wait. Frankly I'm sick and tired of the antecedent argument of pointing out a few rare cases here or there to try to scare or convince people. Give me stats. Let us make our own decision based on stats not antecedents. By the way leave your psycho babble for someone who gives a crap. I'm not paying you to analyze me. I got a minor in Psychology I can do a pretty good job of that myself. I do find that most Psychologists though have their own issues and can't help themselves so they decide to help everyone else as a deflection. Ok. www.bbc.com/future/article/20200622-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-infectionAgain - you’re not only wrong, but also irresponsibly defiant to what hundreds of studies around the world are discovering in their findings. U big mad that you’re wrong and super easy to touch nerves on 😂😂😂 another |
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 21, 2020 10:38:32 GMT -5
“Its like Freddy or Jason.” More like Amityville Horror...you slowly go insane. Don't give them any ideas... remember, Amityville was claimed to be real, but turned out to be a hoax!  |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jul 21, 2020 10:54:56 GMT -5
Please Mr. Psychologist give me the stats in what % of covid cases are severe long term effects happening. Also please give me the breakdown on what % of those people already had comorbidities and which were healthy. I'll wait. Frankly I'm sick and tired of the antecedent argument of pointing out a few rare cases here or there to try to scare or convince people. Give me stats. Let us make our own decision based on stats not antecedents. By the way leave your psycho babble for someone who gives a crap. I'm not paying you to analyze me. I got a minor in Psychology I can do a pretty good job of that myself. I do find that most Psychologists though have their own issues and can't help themselves so they decide to help everyone else as a deflection. Ok. www.bbc.com/future/article/20200622-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-infectionAgain - you’re not only wrong, but also irresponsibly defiant to what hundreds of studies around the world are discovering in their findings. U big mad that you’re wrong and super easy to touch nerves on 😂😂😂 I'm not big mad. That article does not list statistics of people that are getting these issues and people that are not. I want to know relative risk of this happening to a covid-19 patient by numbers. Your article is nothing more than further fear mongering. The article is flawed because it does not go into how many patients they are finding this in versus how many overall covid-19 patients there are that have recovered with no issue whatsoever. Until I see those stats and someone actually willing to put out those stats everything else is antecedent. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jul 21, 2020 10:57:40 GMT -5
It's behind a paywall but I bet that that article also doesn't give % of covid-19 patients that had these issues versus ones that did not. I'm not saying this stuff isn't happening. What I'm saying is statistically its rarer than people are making it out to be. The problem is no media article will publish those statistics, and no study I have see so far talk about that % either. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 21, 2020 12:22:27 GMT -5
It's behind a paywall but I bet that that article also doesn't give % of covid-19 patients that had these issues versus ones that did not. I'm not saying this stuff isn't happening. What I'm saying is statistically its rarer than people are making it out to be. The problem is no media article will publish those statistics, and no study I have see so far talk about that % either. You are absolutely right that there are no stats on % of people that get these bad consequences. BUT you are forgetting AGAIN that this is a developing situation with a lot of unknowns. It takes TIME, likely over one year and closer to two to collect that kind of high quality epidemiological data. You are asking for the impossible. After all you have frequently stated that the number of actual positive cases is unknown due to poor collection and tracking so if your denominator is wrong then your percentage will be wrong too. And you know what I think??? You would be the FIRST and LOUDEST person on this forum to declare that data as crappy or wrong too. You should go work for the CDC or Georgia Department of Public Health and gather all of this data yourself and see how easy it is. Newsflash! It is not easy and won't be accurate for a while. |
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Post by bogan on Jul 21, 2020 12:23:25 GMT -5
“Its like Freddy or Jason.” More like Amityville Horror...you slowly go insane. Don't give them any ideas... remember, Amityville was claimed to be real, but turned out to be a hoax! True. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jul 21, 2020 13:09:28 GMT -5
It's behind a paywall but I bet that that article also doesn't give % of covid-19 patients that had these issues versus ones that did not. I'm not saying this stuff isn't happening. What I'm saying is statistically its rarer than people are making it out to be. The problem is no media article will publish those statistics, and no study I have see so far talk about that % either. You are absolutely right that there are no stats on % of people that get these bad consequences. BUT you are forgetting AGAIN that this is a developing situation with a lot of unknowns. It takes TIME, likely over one year and closer to two to collect that kind of high quality epidemiological data. You are asking for the impossible. After all you have frequently stated that the number of actual positive cases is unknown due to poor collection and tracking so if your denominator is wrong then your percentage will be wrong too. And you know what I think??? You would be the FIRST and LOUDEST person on this forum to declare that data as crappy or wrong too. You should go work for the CDC or Georgia Department of Public Health and gather all of this data yourself and see how easy it is. Newsflash! It is not easy and won't be accurate for a while. But you can derive statistical data and models by taking what we have now and extrapolating it out. So say a study takes 5,000 cases and studies every single one of them for a certain time frame. Evaluates each person for long term issues and not and then publishes that finding. We never get full data. We get enough studies eventually to be able to extrapolate those percentages. These stories being published and the studies coming out talking about this stuff are not looking at it versus all cases for a specific time period. I'm not asking for 100% reliability. I'm asking for studies that have data groups of set criteria, and from that once we get several of those and they start agreeing with each other you can extrapolate out relative risk and how common these things happen. We could already have several studies out already on this and maybe there are some that exist, but I am not aware of any at this point. |
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Post by ball2futbol on Jul 21, 2020 13:10:49 GMT -5
It's behind a paywall but I bet that that article also doesn't give % of covid-19 patients that had these issues versus ones that did not. I'm not saying this stuff isn't happening. What I'm saying is statistically its rarer than people are making it out to be. The problem is no media article will publish those statistics, and no study I have see so far talk about that % either. Pretty amazing how the goal posts begin to move, once the narrative no longer fits. "No no not that data, I meant the other data, my data" LOL! It's easy to be the leader of the angry mob when you don't brunt the actual consequences. If the research or data isn't readily available... smart, responsible people who actually do make those decisions, don't err on the side of recklessness. |
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Post by fridge on Jul 21, 2020 13:33:14 GMT -5
Finally some DATA! Let's use these numbers--- I'm fine with them. First, comparing Covid death rate to flu death rate as 6X are both relatively nominal percentages --.68% to the population over all is not a significant risk. Objectively, do you think these death percentages are significant? Have perspective, these are not big percentages. The chances of dying of suicide (1.1%), opiod overdose (1%), car wreck (.94%) and falls (.90%) are above these percentages. Should we shut down the economy and spend trillions to stop these deaths? If not, why not? Maybe bc in more sane and rational moments, people and policymakers appreciated that, while sad, these numbers are acceptable (and likely unavoidable no matter how much money thrown at them). Second, I know folks have compared flu/Covid, but they have done it by AGE and in the context of school openings. So, if it is your opinion that 6X is a big number on these nominal percentages, you definitely would want to close down schools--for the FLU-- bc children's chances of death from Flu v. Covid is a similar risk and flu season is coming. Why haven't we? Because in more sane and rational moments, we have concluded that, while sad, these numbers are still acceptable. Again, look at NY. In the last month, NY is averaging about 10 deaths/day. 10 deaths in a city of 8.5 million people. And, it still has not opened completely. I ask again, what is the number and data point when you would say--yes we can open. I think for half the country it is the unattainable ZERO Deaths. Great discussion! |
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Post by bogan on Jul 21, 2020 13:40:31 GMT -5
Finally some DATA! Let's use these numbers--- I'm fine with them. First, comparing Covid death rate to flu death rate as 6X are both relatively nominal percentages --.68% to the population over all is not a significant risk. Objectively, do you think these death percentages are significant? Have perspective, these are not big percentages. The chances of dying of suicide (1.1%), opiod overdose (1%), car wreck (.94%) and falls (.90%) are above these percentages. Should we shut down the economy and spend trillions to stop these deaths? If not, why not? Maybe bc in more sane and rational moments, people and policymakers appreciated that, while sad, these numbers are acceptable (and likely unavoidable no matter how much money thrown at them). Second, I know folks have compared flu/Covid, but they have done it by AGE and in the context of school openings. So, if it is your opinion that 6X is a big number on these nominal percentages, you definitely would want to close down schools--for the FLU-- bc children's chances of death from Flu v. Covid is a similar risk and flu season is coming. Why haven't we? Because in more sane and rational moments, we have concluded that, while sad, these numbers are still acceptable. Again, look at NY. In the last month, NY is averaging about 10 deaths/day. 10 deaths in a city of 8.5 million people. And, it still has not opened completely. I ask again, what is the number and data point when you would say--yes we can open. I think for half the country it is the unattainable ZERO Deaths. Great discussion! ...As many have pointed out, it’s comes down to risk/reward and what folks are comfortable with. I just hate that it got political-that hasn’t helped anyone. |
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Post by fridge on Jul 21, 2020 14:15:48 GMT -5
Bogan and others--good discussion.
I will say that reading and exchanging ideas on this forum has been greatly beneficial to me. While my position has not changed much, I am much much more empathetic to others who take the opposite view. I truly have taken the approach that really smart people disagree with me, so what am I missing. My submissions are simply to give some folks some perspective and perhaps get their thoughtful consideration. Even when I watch CNN, I start freaking out and, in my mind, lose perspective.
Hopefully, the exchanges are helping others who are open to discussion and learning from others. And this too will pass....
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 21, 2020 15:44:13 GMT -5
You are absolutely right that there are no stats on % of people that get these bad consequences. BUT you are forgetting AGAIN that this is a developing situation with a lot of unknowns. It takes TIME, likely over one year and closer to two to collect that kind of high quality epidemiological data. You are asking for the impossible. After all you have frequently stated that the number of actual positive cases is unknown due to poor collection and tracking so if your denominator is wrong then your percentage will be wrong too. And you know what I think??? You would be the FIRST and LOUDEST person on this forum to declare that data as crappy or wrong too. You should go work for the CDC or Georgia Department of Public Health and gather all of this data yourself and see how easy it is. Newsflash! It is not easy and won't be accurate for a while. But you can derive statistical data and models by taking what we have now and extrapolating it out. So say a study takes 5,000 cases and studies every single one of them for a certain time frame. Evaluates each person for long term issues and not and then publishes that finding. We never get full data. We get enough studies eventually to be able to extrapolate those percentages. These stories being published and the studies coming out talking about this stuff are not looking at it versus all cases for a specific time period. I'm not asking for 100% reliability. I'm asking for studies that have data groups of set criteria, and from that once we get several of those and they start agreeing with each other you can extrapolate out relative risk and how common these things happen. We could already have several studies out already on this and maybe there are some that exist, but I am not aware of any at this point. Didn't you say you were an engineer? Sheesh.
You know what happens when you take bad data (as you claim) and extrapolate from it? You get worse data.
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