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Post by hsfan on May 1, 2023 11:47:57 GMT -5
A slide tackle is only illegally "from behind" if it goes through the legs of the player. This one was textbook. Cleanly hooks the ball at the same moment the WM girl's foot contacts it from the other side. The force of the blow on the ball takes the WM player's feet out from under her. So what? Simple physics in a contact sport. NEVER a foul. Certainly not one to step on the field and berate the CR about.
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Post by atlfutboldad on May 1, 2023 11:57:57 GMT -5
Sometimes its a foul, up to the discretion of the referee to be honest. It kinda depends on whether contact was ONLY with the ball and the whole careless/reckless/excessive thing. If it was all ball, in a big game, I can understand deference to the play.
Mind you, I have no idea if it was all ball, haven't seen it. The picture pasted only shows a white player on the ground behind a green player, nothing more. And frankly the referee wasn't in a position to see whether it was all ball or not. Only the AR on the far side of the field could see it. Given that, I'm surprised it wasn't called.
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Post by hsfan on May 1, 2023 12:07:59 GMT -5
I saw it in real time. Never a foul. Despite my admiration (and worry) for the WM player involved, I had to admire the Lovett girl's technique. All the moaning that followed was cringeworthy.
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Post by jamsoccer on May 1, 2023 12:44:36 GMT -5
Way to stay classy and gracious in a loss, coach of Holy Innocents:
Congrats to the Holy Innocents' girls on a great season! His depiction of HI controlling the game is nonsense. Both teams had to deal with the weather/field conditions and the center ref called a pretty good game.
But here's to you, coach who makes excuses and doesn't give credit where credit is due. THIS Bud's for YOU! Not the first mention I've seen of North's "small" field, which is 10 yards shorter than a football stadium field but 6 yards wider than most. The North seniors never lost a home game, while compiling a 60-2-3 overall record.
is this guy serious? i can't believe he would have the gall to write something like that-and i'm even more surprised that HIES let him get away with it. thought they were supposed to be repping jesus and such. i've seen them play. it was a game where they were actually controlling the game. up by a lot. their team were given at least 3 yellows not for fouls but for their language and behavior- talking back to the ref after being called offside etc. it was kinda unsettling bc of how much they were up by. obvious they felt entitled to the win. i made the assumption that this was based on a coach turns out i was right. no hate towards the players- they’ve are a good squad and their actions are just a product of their training- i’m sure they’re awesome ppl- but they need a coach who can teach them to handle challenges & accept defeat gracefully. this guy doesn’t fit the bill. |
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Post by atlcoach84 on May 1, 2023 15:21:25 GMT -5
Way to stay classy and gracious in a loss, coach of Holy Innocents:
Congrats to the Holy Innocents' girls on a great season! His depiction of HI controlling the game is nonsense. Both teams had to deal with the weather/field conditions and the center ref called a pretty good game.
But here's to you, coach who makes excuses and doesn't give credit where credit is due. THIS Bud's for YOU! Not the first mention I've seen of North's "small" field, which is 10 yards shorter than a football stadium field but 6 yards wider than most. The North seniors never lost a home game, while compiling a 60-2-3 overall record.
is this guy serious? i can't believe he would have the gall to write something like that-and i'm even more surprised that HIES let him get away with it. thought they were supposed to be repping jesus and such. i've seen them play. it was a game where they were actually controlling the game. up by a lot. their team were given at least 3 yellows not for fouls but for their language and behavior- talking back to the ref after being called offside etc. it was kinda unsettling bc of how much they were up by. obvious they felt entitled to the win. i made the assumption that this was based on a coach turns out i was right. no hate towards the players- they’ve are a good squad and their actions are just a product of their training- i’m sure they’re awesome ppl- but they need a coach who can teach them to handle challenges & accept defeat gracefully. this guy doesn’t fit the bill. To be so openly critical of someone's character you must know the HIES coach and the staff fairly well to be so confident of your opinion of them. In this case, I'm fairly certain you don't at all; in speaking about it afterwards, they were fairly open about not being good enough on the day as a team and coaches. FWIW this read to me like a send-off for their Seniors more than an indictment of that specific game. |
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Post by jamsoccer on May 1, 2023 15:59:58 GMT -5
is this guy serious? i can't believe he would have the gall to write something like that-and i'm even more surprised that HIES let him get away with it. thought they were supposed to be repping jesus and such. i've seen them play. it was a game where they were actually controlling the game. up by a lot. their team were given at least 3 yellows not for fouls but for their language and behavior- talking back to the ref after being called offside etc. it was kinda unsettling bc of how much they were up by. obvious they felt entitled to the win. i made the assumption that this was based on a coach turns out i was right. no hate towards the players- they’ve are a good squad and their actions are just a product of their training- i’m sure they’re awesome ppl- but they need a coach who can teach them to handle challenges & accept defeat gracefully. this guy doesn’t fit the bill. To be so openly critical of someone's character you must know the HIES coach and the staff fairly well to be so confident of your opinion of them. In this case, I'm fairly certain you don't at all; in speaking about it afterwards, they were fairly open about not being good enough on the day as a team and coaches. FWIW this read to me like a send-off for their Seniors more than an indictment of that specific game. the entire first two paragraphs were a passive aggressive dig at north oconee’s playing style. maybe that’s not how he meant it- that’s how it read to someone with no dog in the fight. all that’s needed is ‘the bears faced a tough challenge against north ocnoee- sad they couldn’t walk away with a win.’ and then go into senior send off. this article reads like sour grapes. a school with a $30000 price tag criticizing the size of a field doesn’t come off as a wholesome. maybe he was better speaking about it after the game- but that’s not what made the school site. to each their own 🤷🏻♂️ |
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Post by notcrazysoccerdad on May 1, 2023 20:42:17 GMT -5
A slide tackle is only illegally "from behind" if it goes through the legs of the player. This one was textbook. Cleanly hooks the ball at the same moment the WM girl's foot contacts it from the other side. The force of the blow on the ball takes the WM player's feet out from under her. So what? Simple physics in a contact sport. NEVER a foul. Certainly not one to step on the field and berate the CR about. Anyone else see a perfect slide tackle with no contact to the legs? How about a handball to start the sequence then a foul before the tackle? Again, I thought the ref was atrocious both ways but this was not "NEVER a foul." |
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Post by fanatic21 on May 1, 2023 21:41:43 GMT -5
I agree there was probably a hand ball at the beginning of the clip (it's a bit blurry but looks like one), but I'm going to go with fair tackle on the slide. It's pretty close and hard to tell 100% from the angle (ref has a much better one), but from the angle of the video it looks like ball first and then Westminster player trips over the leg that reached around and won the ball.
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Post by youthsoccernonsense on May 2, 2023 11:15:06 GMT -5
The play where the WM player got injured was an absolutely textbook slide tackle which got nothing but ball (video shows it clearly). The WM girl hit the ground hard with her head due to physics. Very unfortunate for her, and I really hope she is good to go this week. But CR was right on top of it and in a much better position to judge than anyone else. ![]() View AttachmentYes, clearly not a slide tackle from behind. Perfect form. HAHAHAHAHA. Note that the Westminster player's legs shot to the right and she fell to the left. As for the second yellow to the coach, no one said (at least I didn't) that it wasn't the right call by the book. Just that the penalty is pretty harsh given the actual nonsense that was happening uncalled on the field and the fact that it was an assistant who actually committed the infraction. I do agree that the CR was bad both ways. notcrazysoccerdad.....HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND? THE COACH COMMITS THE MOST UNETHICAL AND EGREGIOUS ACT BY ENTERING THE FIELD OF PLAY TO DIRECTLY AFFECT A BALL AND YOU THINK A YELLOW IS FINE AND SITTING OUT THE NEXT GAME IS "HARSH"? UNREAL. |
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Post by jamsoccer on May 2, 2023 13:19:50 GMT -5
![]() View AttachmentYes, clearly not a slide tackle from behind. Perfect form. HAHAHAHAHA. Note that the Westminster player's legs shot to the right and she fell to the left. As for the second yellow to the coach, no one said (at least I didn't) that it wasn't the right call by the book. Just that the penalty is pretty harsh given the actual nonsense that was happening uncalled on the field and the fact that it was an assistant who actually committed the infraction. I do agree that the CR was bad both ways. notcrazysoccerdad.....HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND? THE COACH COMMITS THE MOST UNETHICAL AND EGREGIOUS ACT BY ENTERING THE FIELD OF PLAY TO DIRECTLY AFFECT A BALL AND YOU THINK A YELLOW IS FINE AND SITTING OUT THE NEXT GAME IS "HARSH"? UNREAL. that was loud- lol! but she didn’t touch the ball- an assistant did. it’s a little harsh for her to have to sit. and it’s clear that the assistant thought it was out- even the commentators did. the head coach freaked out probably because she had a better angle and knew it would be another yellow |
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Post by youthsoccernonsense on May 2, 2023 13:35:23 GMT -5
notcrazysoccerdad.....HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND? THE COACH COMMITS THE MOST UNETHICAL AND EGREGIOUS ACT BY ENTERING THE FIELD OF PLAY TO DIRECTLY AFFECT A BALL AND YOU THINK A YELLOW IS FINE AND SITTING OUT THE NEXT GAME IS "HARSH"? UNREAL. that was loud- lol! but she didn’t touch the ball- an assistant did. it’s a little harsh for her to have to sit. and it’s clear that the assistant thought it was out- even the commentators did. the head coach freaked out probably because she had a better angle and knew it would be another yellow Got it. Makes perfect sense. She thought it was out. and the student announcers thought it was out too. perfect. no big deal. Hey North Oconee - just line the field with assistant coaches and stop any balls coming by you. Westminster doesnt care as long as you think they are out. Also - make sure your student announcers say they are out everytime. All good. |
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Post by fanatic21 on May 2, 2023 14:09:43 GMT -5
Youthsoccernonsense, definitely an appropriate username
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Post by jamsoccer on May 2, 2023 14:12:00 GMT -5
that was loud- lol! but she didn’t touch the ball- an assistant did. it’s a little harsh for her to have to sit. and it’s clear that the assistant thought it was out- even the commentators did. the head coach freaked out probably because she had a better angle and knew it would be another yellow Got it. Makes perfect sense. She thought it was out. and the student announcers thought it was out too. perfect. no big deal. Hey North Oconee - just line the field with assistant coaches and stop any balls coming by you. Westminster doesnt care as long as you think they are out. Also - make sure your student announcers say they are out everytime. All good. u seem very close to the subject- so i will say this so we don’t go back and forth forever. but i do want to finish my thought as you have mischaracterized it with your hyperbole. i was not suggesting the assistant coach was right- and it was more likely a mistake than the ‘most egregious act’ committed- sitting a head coach from a championship game for something she didn’t do is harsh especially bc her first card was for something that could have been a warning |
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Post by bolo on May 2, 2023 14:49:22 GMT -5
that was loud- lol! but she didn’t touch the ball- an assistant did. it’s a little harsh for her to have to sit. and it’s clear that the assistant thought it was out- even the commentators did. the head coach freaked out probably because she had a better angle and knew it would be another yellow Got it. Makes perfect sense. She thought it was out. and the student announcers thought it was out too. perfect. no big deal. Hey North Oconee - just line the field with assistant coaches and stop any balls coming by you. Westminster doesnt care as long as you think they are out. Also - make sure your student announcers say they are out everytime. All good. Wow, take it easy. I've watched the video of the incident several times on NFHS. jamsoccer made a pretty reasonable post about what happened. The cleared ball was right along the sideline- borderline out of bounds, especially as it was in the air as it had some bend on it- when the assistant almost instinctively reached out and knocked it down. She didn't step out onto the field to grab it or anything. When she touched the ball, she was actually still out of bounds, but one foot did go onto the field of play after she touched it. She clearly thought it was out, like a lot of people did & were yelling as soon as the ball was kicked. But she was wrong, and she knew it immediately, as did the coach, who immediately went up to her with a "what in the hell were you doing?!" look and quick conversation (per the video & someone I know that was there & saw it). She knew she was getting a second yellow & was out, and I'm sure that sucked for her. It's not like it was some organized campaign to knock down every ball that was near the sideline, and it's not like it was "no big deal"- they got a yellow card & the coach was ejected & will have to miss the final. They didn't exactly come away unscathed here! And WGAS what the student announcers said on the NFHS broadcast that no one in the stadium could hear. Had no impact on the play in question whatsoever. For the record, I have zero connection to Westminster and only an ancillary one to Lovett. I would have preferred Lovett had won, but I also don't think what the Westminster assistant did was part of some nefarious plot and calls for a 30 for 30 special, like you seem to. Get a grip. |
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Post by rifle on May 2, 2023 18:13:03 GMT -5
State champs MV 3-1 Paideia
MV was beaten 6-2 in regular season but turned it around in the final. Congrats to my niece for a state championship in her sophomore year.
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Post by Respect on May 2, 2023 22:42:55 GMT -5
watched the livestream of the game- wow. ref lost all control- disappointing. lots of fouls but seems like westminster got in more trouble for it. i don’t have a dog in the fight. does the coach getting a red card mean she’s out for the final? forgot to add- if the westminster keeper is out that could cause issues. Not sure if it matters that the RC was for 2 cautions and one of those was a bench caution for her assistant catching a ball that wasn’t quite out of bounds. Stupid HS rules. Her first YC was also for being outside the bench area - without a warning. Sounds harsh, like poor management by the ref. And I’m a ref. I’m also biased because Sharon has coached a generation of girls in north suburbs and done it very well. So I hate for her to have to miss a state championship. Got a chance to view last few minutes of this game. Clearly, where the ref crew could’ve done (a lot) better was enforcing the technical area for both teams. This is particularly important for playoff games. In fact, ref crews are advised to be at least 1h prior to game to review the field. The issues that transpired could have been avoided altogether. The 4th ref did not appear to address this issue at any point. Bench players and staff were standing next to touch line. Even after the RC, the visiting team remained close to the field and you can see that AR1 had barely a running lane (home team moved back to the bench area after RC as instructed by their remaining coaches). But all throughout the game, all should’ve bee outside the grass field, somewhere in the green track area (where the benches were placed). Note that this does not excuse either YC but with better technical area management they could’ve been avoided. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on May 3, 2023 11:33:50 GMT -5
After seeing that slide tackle, I don't have an issue with the no-call. I see those kinds of tackles all the time in school and club. I also have seen far more obviously good tackles called as fouls as well as obvious charges/jumping into/pushing that are almost never called.
It could have been called for sure, but it is up to the ref. In the referee training they discuss tackles that are "all ball" that lead to a trip of the player. Inside the 18 its usually a foul/penalty, but in the open field with play not headed to a goal-scoring opportunity, its a wash, but a different referee could consider it reckless, definitely not excessive force. Its very unfortunate if the player who was tackled was injured.
This is old, but mostly still relevant:
Check out the part starting at 3:48 which was a very similar uncalled tackle, that were it called would have been DOGSO. Also pay attention to the little tidbit at 12:07 about strong but legal challenges.
Note: Have you EVER seen a referee enforce the 6-second keeper rule? At 6 seconds? Could you imagine how much this would increase the speed of the game? Or the keeper double-touch the way it is shown in the video? I NEVER, EVER, EVER see impeding the progress of another player called, EVER.
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Post by bogan on May 3, 2023 12:29:02 GMT -5
I NEVER, EVER, EVER see impeding the progress of another player called, EVER.”
That one made me laugh because I watched a game last year where it was obvious the coach had the players setting screens. Thought I was watching the Hawks!
🤣
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Post by notcrazysoccerdad on May 3, 2023 13:50:58 GMT -5
After seeing that slide tackle, I don't have an issue with the no-call. I see those kinds of tackles all the time in school and club. I also have seen far more obviously good tackles called as fouls as well as obvious charges/jumping into/pushing that are almost never called. It could have been called for sure, but it is up to the ref. In the referee training they discuss tackles that are "all ball" that lead to a trip of the player. Inside the 18 its usually a foul/penalty, but in the open field with play not headed to a goal-scoring opportunity, its a wash, but a different referee could consider it reckless, definitely not excessive force. Its very unfortunate if the player who was tackled was injured. This is old, but mostly still relevant: Check out the part starting at 3:48 which was a very similar uncalled tackle, that were it called would have been DOGSO. Also pay attention to the little tidbit at 12:07 about strong but legal challenges. Note: Have you EVER seen a referee enforce the 6-second keeper rule? At 6 seconds? Could you imagine how much this would increase the speed of the game? Or the keeper double-touch the way it is shown in the video? I NEVER, EVER, EVER see impeding the progress of another player called, EVER. I appreciate the thoughtful analysis - I was hopeful people like you and rifle would look at it. I disagree with the conclusion, as it is pretty clear to me that there was significant contact to the Westminster player's legs as part of the action that hit the ball. Just because you touch the ball does not make you immune from a foul call if the play is dangerous / out of control. What I see here is the Lovett player hitting the ball with her foot while simultaneously taking out the Westminster player with her hip. I guess that judgement call is what makes being a ref so hard... and I'll admit I am not feeling very charitable to the CR, who allowed the game to get out of control with players from both teams going down. |
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Post by knownothingabtsoccer on May 3, 2023 14:20:36 GMT -5
If folks on this thread would get certified as referees and officiate games there would be greater depth in the referee pool, such that the best of the lot would rise to referee the most important games. The referee in the Lovett/WM can be criticized for making the correct or incorrect call, but the call was made. They are human, underpaid, and for the most part under-trained. What do you expect?
On a related note, we (including me) need to give referees more grace from the sidelines. When we subject the refs to constant fan abuse, why would any sharp/skilled ref, often times just reffing to give back or make a little cash, even want to do the job? We are such an entitled lot, expecting world cup level refs for youth soccer.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on May 3, 2023 16:15:06 GMT -5
Note: Have you EVER seen a referee enforce the 6-second keeper rule? At 6 seconds? Could you imagine how much this would increase the speed of the game? Or the keeper double-touch the way it is shown in the video? I NEVER, EVER, EVER see impeding the progress of another player called, EVER. I call this if it is excessive and clearly gave the defending team an advantage by impeding. If the ball was kicked 10-15 feet away with the person being impeding having no chance of getting to the ball before a defender closer to the ball or before it goes out, I won't call it, but if they impede with a good chance that the attacker had an advantage that was then lost by the impeding event I'll call it. I agree though not a lot of referees call this at all. I have made more of an effort to call it more often if I feel like an advantage was gained either way. I'll also warn the keeper if he holds it too long and then give yellows if he continues in a situation where the keeper's team is leading and trying to time waste. |
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Post by notcrazysoccerdad on May 3, 2023 17:12:19 GMT -5
If folks on this thread would get certified as referees and officiate games there would be greater depth in the referee pool, such that the best of the lot would rise to referee the most important games. The referee in the Lovett/WM can be criticized for making the correct or incorrect call, but the call was made. They are human, underpaid, and for the most part under-trained. What do you expect? On a related note, we (including me) need to give referees more grace from the sidelines. When we subject the refs to constant fan abuse, why would any sharp/skilled ref, often times just reffing to give back or make a little cash, even want to do the job? We are such an entitled lot, expecting world cup level refs for youth soccer. Agree 99% - but fyi, there are at least 3 certified refs on this thread (including me). I imagine we all agree with your points on giving refs grace, but it does bother me when a ref clearly loses control of a game and refuses to do the things that de-escalate increasingly violent actions. Injuries in the last 15 mins of the game in question were entirely predictable and that is what upset me. |
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Post by fanatic21 on May 3, 2023 23:12:57 GMT -5
Notcrazysoccerdad, this is a quote from one of your previous posts: "The tackle from behind that injured a Westminster player was one of the worst non-calls I have ever seen"
I commented a couple days ago after watching the video. I watched the video in slow motion then (and again today), and it honestly hard to tell for sure, but it looks like defender might have gotten the ball first and the Westminster player then trips over the defenders leg that got the ball. The ref might have gotten this one right. And if he didn't - the video is a bit blurry, and not the best angle (ref had a better angle than we do in the video), so there is certainly a chance that the defender got some leg first which would be a foul - but even if so, it's not remotely one of the worst non-calls ever. It's a very very close call.
As you mentioned, players can get ball and it still be a foul. Don't think that would be the case in this situation - again, assuming the defender got the ball first. It's not high or studs up. It's not excessive force. The defender knocks the ball far enough away that the Westminster player who was tackled is not going to be immediaely involved in trying to recover the loose ball.
You see this kind of tackle all the time in high level games - where the player who is tackled falls over the legs of the tackling player, and it's not called a foul. I understand that the player was injured on this play. Despite that, if the player did in fact get ball first, and the Westminster fell over the tackling leg, in this case, it's not a foul.
Again, I can't tell for sure from the video. It's pretty grainy. But if a bunch of guys watching in slow motion are still debating whether it's even a foul or not, I don't think we can call this "one of the worst non-calls I have ever seen."
I didn't see the rest of the game, so I can't comment on the overall quality of the reffing. Does sound a bit ridiculous that the coach was given a second yellow for the assistant touching the ball before it went out. GHSA needs to get rid of all their stupid rule modifications and just officiate soccer games based on the Laws of the Game. But refs also should use a bit of common sense and do what's good for the game. I know I'd never have given a second yellow (maybe a first) and send off a head coach for an assistant accidentally touching the ball before it went out. No matter how annoyed I already was at the head coach.
Just so you know, I am a pretty experienced certified ref.
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Post by hsfan on May 4, 2023 7:23:24 GMT -5
The ball handled by the assistant was not going out of play. It had been cut back on the line and sent upfield and was going to stay inbounds. Was in fact heading towards a well-placed Lovett forward, and the WM assistant definitely interfered with the run of play and snuffed out a potential counter. Ref had no choice but to give a yellow. First yellow wasn't a particularly close thing either. Coach came onto the field to shout at the ref at least twice.
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Post by notcrazysoccerdad on May 4, 2023 7:57:17 GMT -5
Notcrazysoccerdad, this is a quote from one of your previous posts: "The tackle from behind that injured a Westminster player was one of the worst non-calls I have ever seen" I commented a couple days ago after watching the video. I watched the video in slow motion then (and again today), and it honestly hard to tell for sure, but it looks like defender might have gotten the ball first and the Westminster player then trips over the defenders leg that got the ball. The ref might have gotten this one right. And if he didn't - the video is a bit blurry, and not the best angle (ref had a better angle than we do in the video), so there is certainly a chance that the defender got some leg first which would be a foul - but even if so, it's not remotely one of the worst non-calls ever. It's a very very close call. As you mentioned, players can get ball and it still be a foul. Don't think that would be the case in this situation - again, assuming the defender got the ball first. It's not high or studs up. It's not excessive force. The defender knocks the ball far enough away that the Westminster player who was tackled is not going to be immediaely involved in trying to recover the loose ball. You see this kind of tackle all the time in high level games - where the player who is tackled falls over the legs of the tackling player, and it's not called a foul. I understand that the player was injured on this play. Despite that, if the player did in fact get ball first, and the Westminster fell over the tackling leg, in this case, it's not a foul. Again, I can't tell for sure from the video. It's pretty grainy. But if a bunch of guys watching in slow motion are still debating whether it's even a foul or not, I don't think we can call this "one of the worst non-calls I have ever seen." I didn't see the rest of the game, so I can't comment on the overall quality of the reffing. Does sound a bit ridiculous that the coach was given a second yellow for the assistant touching the ball before it went out. GHSA needs to get rid of all their stupid rule modifications and just officiate soccer games based on the Laws of the Game. But refs also should use a bit of common sense and do what's good for the game. I know I'd never have given a second yellow (maybe a first) and send off a head coach for an assistant accidentally touching the ball before it went out. No matter how annoyed I already was at the head coach. Just so you know, I am a pretty experienced certified ref. This may a first in internet message board history: I admit you are right and I was wrong. After reviewing the video like the Zapruder film, it wasn't one of the worst non-calls I have seen. I still think it was a foul because the legs were taken out from behind/the side just as the ball was hit (i.e., the attacker's momentum didn't bring her into the defender's leg). Plus given what was happening in the game (escalating physicality leading to injuries / yellows to coaches / etc) and where it was on the field, I would 100% have blown the whistle. But, I agree it is one of those tricky judgement calls. You win! Agree on the different rules. As many have noted here and on other threads there is a deficit of good HS refs. Among many other reasons, I think it caused by the weird modifications (especially the 2 man system for regular season games). |
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Post by youthsoccernonsense on May 4, 2023 8:03:41 GMT -5
The ball handled by the assistant was not going out of play. It had been cut back on the line and sent upfield and was going to stay inbounds. Was in fact heading towards a well-placed Lovett forward, and the WM assistant definitely interfered with the run of play and snuffed out a potential counter. Ref had no choice but to give a yellow. First yellow wasn't a particularly close thing either. Coach came onto the field to shout at the ref at least twice. hsfan - dont let the facts interfere with the WM talking points. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on May 4, 2023 8:08:12 GMT -5
Agree on the different rules. As many have noted here and on other threads there is a deficit of good HS refs. Among many other reasons, I think it caused by the weird modifications (especially the 2 man system for regular season games). The 2 man system is what has kept me from doing it along with having to do more certification training due to the modifications of the rules. Also I find that HS parents are about 300% worse than club parents at the referees, and I would say also about 1000% less knowledgeable of the laws of the game than club parents. I know this because I sit in the stands and cringe at some of the stuff said by parents. |
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Post by soccerloafer on May 4, 2023 12:13:12 GMT -5
Final thoughts on the WM v. Lovett game. Commenting as an active referee (HS and Club). I watched the video, mostly on fast forward, pausing and reviewing key points.
It was apparent early on that the CR was not doing well. Body language and movement told me he wasn't invested in the game. Number of non-calls, mostly fouls against WM. Not degrading Lovett, that's just what I saw. Made worse by a couple of soft calls against WM. Poor non-whistle communication - no gesturing advantage, fair tackle, no talking to players after incidents.
The slide from behind mentioned above needed to be called a foul. You can debate that single call either way, but based on the run of play and temperature of the match, the game needed that to be a foul.
Sometimes a team (or player) commits a lot of 'almost' fouls or 'half' fouls. Those add up and at some point, you have to call one (or a few) to prevent worse things from happening. Could be a late tackle after a pass, a pull that wasn't enough to call, a bump that results in a bobble but not loss of ball, etc.
The WM coaching staff was livid, and rightly so. Their players were getting hurt, the CR was sloppy, and the 4th wasn't doing a great job managing. As a referee, we tune out coaches that gripe constantly. However, coaches with good reputations (Sharon is one), sometimes you should listen to. This was one of those cases.
IMO, the assistant catching the ball wasn't acting out of spite or to impact the game. I think it was just a reaction to grab the ball and save time. It happened to me a few times this season - never did I feel it was anything but trying to be helpful and I addressed as such.
We all have calls or games we want back. Heck, I had a game this HS season I wanted to do over. Didn't do a terrible job or affect the outcome, just never found my rhythm with the game. After the game, the losing coach said I had been inconsistent. I wanted to tell him yeah, I felt the same way. We're not always on our best and it's hard to catch up when you fall behind and are out of the groove.
All that said, the CR mismanaged this game and the cards given were caused directly by his poor performance. It's a shame Sharon has to miss the final.
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on May 4, 2023 12:53:09 GMT -5
Holy cow, you’d think this was a play from a WC final game. I keep clicking on this thread when a new reply is posted, thinking it’s about some of the results from this week. 🤣🤣
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Post by soccer888 on May 4, 2023 13:01:33 GMT -5
I know, right? 😄 How about those 6A and 7A finals tomorrow?! Roswell/Marist and Denmark/Walton. Exciting stuff.
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