|
Post by soccerlegacy on Feb 19, 2018 11:51:29 GMT -5
I've seen lots of kids drop out over the years. Some miss it and come back quickly. Some never miss it and move on. The real determining factor for parents should be the answer to this question: "Is my kid enjoying it?" As long as the answer is yes, then let them push to whatever level they can achieve. They'll have setbacks, disappointments, and maybe even a little pain. That's competitive sports. But as long as they are enjoying the game, it all ends up worthwhile. If the answer becomes no and remains no, then it's time to have a serious talk with them about why they're doing it. Maybe they don't enjoy the game. Maybe they've just ended up with a coach or a group of teammates they don't enjoy. Maybe a lot of things. Could be a need for change of scenery/coach/whatever. Could be they need to walk away from it and enjoy their youth in a different manner. The one thing to never overlook is the importance of the coach on your kid's ability to love the game. A coach can crush a kid in the name of development. Another coach can take the same kid and slowly uncrush them. I've watched it happen where parents were on the verge of taking their kid out of the sport all together, but gave it one more year with a different coach and the kid went on to flourish. Clubs and leagues are far less important than the person your kid spends 2, 3, 4, and more days per week learning from. See this is the tricky part... Yes she is enjoying it, but to forysthsd's point, she is enjoying it less... And thank you forsythsd, for sharing your insight!! I still think the most fun my daughter has had was playing pickup games at elementary school as well... a close second was on the first years of academy where the coaches actually tried to make it FUN while giving them solid foundational skills (and still being competitive). I just worry that we will venture too far down the rabbit hole only to realize that the enjoyment was being squeezed out of her, and for what?? All the money, time, and commitment?? Anyone else have experiences they would like to share?
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Feb 19, 2018 10:03:17 GMT -5
I was kind of curious with all the different and educated posters on here, has anyone decided that they were not going to play the "pay to play" game and drop down to a more manageable and affordable level of soccer?
The reason I ask is that I have a daughter that plays U12 and is a "more than decent" player. She's what I would consider a "bubble" player that potentially could be an ECNL, SRPL, and/or possibly could squeak into a DA slot. But looking at the rigors of time, cost, and obligation, I struggle with the "is it worth it?" question. She loves the game, but will she when it gets to that level? Is there a threat of burn-out? In the end, will she even want advance to play in college/ (I've heard some stories of girls that just want to walk away and enjoy college without all the pressure).
At such a young age (in my eyes, I mean we are talking about 11-12 year olds) I already feel like we are at a crossroad... do we pay ungodly sums of money for the higher level competition or find a home where she can still enjoy the game she loves, but might not get as much exposure if she decided to go on to college?
So my question is... has anyone here decided to drop out of the "push" to play higher and higher levels or know of anyone else that has? And if so what brought you to that decision and how has it worked out?
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Feb 14, 2018 10:49:05 GMT -5
I’m floored. Until now I’ve discarded the “too expensive to play in this country commentary”. I’m fortunate that I have a good job that pays well and the academy fees are manageable. Nuts but manageable. That said - I played for close to 20 years in Sweden. My parents never paid more than $200 any year for me to play. And the year they paid $200 was when we went to Italy for a week camp and good games versus Seria B and C sides when I was 17/18 and made it on the senior, Div 3 team. Team did a bunch of manual labor to afford that trip to Italy as well. Inflation aside - paying this money to play for a public school is just nuts. I don’t have a jersey, shorts, etc from that time - all team property and returned after games and a volunteer did the laundry. We got sponsors to pay for some training gear, but club was fine w us kids wearing what we could afford for practice when not covered. Etc. How did soccer here become such a financial burden? How did this go so wrong? This has happen over a long period of years and I wouldn't take the time to go back and study it, but my guess... Overzealous PARENTS!!! Ones that pigeon-holed their kids into playing one sport year-round at earlier and earlier ages... Ones that paid exorbitant amounts for private lessons.. Ones that lived through their child so that they could have bragging rights and relive their glory days through their kids. These are the ones that were willing to pay just about anything that was offered to them. The side effect was that parents with good athletes that just wanted to have their kids play in a competitive environment now had to play the "keeping up with the Jones" and it just continued (continues) to snowball from there.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Feb 13, 2018 14:26:50 GMT -5
That cost really isn't that bad. For one, high school is typically 5 days per week of training and/or games while club is typically only 3 or 4 days per week. The coaches at most of the big schools or good programs at smaller schools have been either coaching high school for years or also coach club soccer so it's often wrong to think of them as being that different from club coaches. Gwinnett county only pays for 2 coaches per program- a head coach and a jv coach- so those extra 2 coaches coaching salaries have to be raised by the booster club. Those costs along with things like goals, balls, uniforms, etc. do add up and require $ from parents or fundraising. The days of everything being covered by tax money ended when millions of $ began being taken away from public schools and given to private schools. Most of the kids of state representatives probably go to private schools so I don't see that ever changing. I'll be honest, I didn't know about the money being funneled to private schools. Disgusting if true... As for the rest, I agree, it's not always top level playing, but the coaching usually is not bad.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Feb 9, 2018 11:29:33 GMT -5
Thank you for this! My oldest is just now getting to the age where these are considerations and info like this is very helpful! Any others vets out there, please share.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Feb 9, 2018 10:56:03 GMT -5
Agree, and not for selfish reason, just really screws up the current u15 age groups and the older ones. Age mandate stinks like rat poop! Exactly, not selfish reasons, it's that EVERY YEAR going forward, you will have players missing a whole season of soccer... and for what?!!? so that less than 1% of the soccer community can play on an international level playing field??? Ridiculous, dumb decision... and, yes, I'm still mad with how this was decided without input from people who pay the bills to keep these yahoos employed... the PARENTS!
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Feb 9, 2018 10:24:25 GMT -5
Went through this last year with my daughter who is an '02. God I hate that stupid, stupid age mandate!!
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Feb 5, 2018 15:20:33 GMT -5
And this is from Brady's mouth about how he was scouted at the NFL combine - "Poor build, Skinny, Lacks great physical stature and strength, Lacks mobility and ability to avoid the rush, Lacks a really strong arm, Can’t drive the ball downfield, Does not throw a really tight spiral, System-type player who can get exposed if forced to ad lib, Gets knocked down easily" Haha... You can still say a lot of those same things about Brady even today, but he make up for it in "spades" when it comes to the intangible traits and I guess some of that can be credited to his maturation process.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Jan 3, 2018 14:50:30 GMT -5
I googled "TOCA soccer kennesaw ga" and saw nothing. I would like to get some info on training sessions, times, etc. where do I get that?
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Dec 12, 2017 10:21:21 GMT -5
I'm basically researching my own history here. I played U12 and U14 soccer in the early 80s for the Athens Applejacks. That club has long since merged into Athens United. I'm trying to find any information about it. When you're a kid, you're not really paying attention to the business of your team and club. Does anyone remember playing for or against the Applejacks? I'm trying to remember who we played. Did the name disappear because of a copyright issue or something else? Wow, this is a blast from the past! I do remember playing in the Applejacks tournaments up in Athens during the mid-80's. I don't really remember playing the team in a regular season, but we could have. I played U12 thru U16 with two clubs in the 80's: Cobb Union (now NASA; NTH) and Cobb United (now defunct). I can only recall a few teams that were our main rivals. They were: Concorde Fire Liverpool Reds (now RYSA) Augusta Gunners If you find any others, post them here, I like a stroll down memory lane.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Nov 30, 2017 16:16:20 GMT -5
Any chance they see the popularity of the sport here in Atlanta and offer a chance for a team here? As I recall, the Atlanta Beat had good turnout when they were around... and we know what Atlanta United has shown.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Nov 30, 2017 16:05:21 GMT -5
I'm surprised most of the lopsided scores weren't from that "girls" program located in Buckhead. :razz:
Still, I point I agree with the most is this being an issue GA Soccer needs to be at the forefront of, and address.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Nov 10, 2017 9:11:11 GMT -5
Potentially 7-8 U.S. Soccer presidential candidates: Paul Caligiuri Carlos Cordeiro Steve Gans Paul Lapointe Kyle Martino Michael Winograd Eric Wynalda Sunil Gulati ? Most calling for BIG changes. IMO common topics seem to be, transparency, better decision making, separating business side from technical side, USMNT, promotion/ relegation, overhaul of youth soccer system. I’m not sure if anybody really knows how this will pan out but Interested to hear points-of-view? I would choose a write-n vote for "footy", "Soccerhouse" "zico" or any number of posters here over the establishment. They can run on the slogan "Make soccer great again".
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Nov 7, 2017 9:52:04 GMT -5
Full disclosure: I have been a ref for 30+ years. One of my pet peeves is when referees do not do their job. Issue a deserved card, yet do not do the necessary paper work with the card. Referees that do not work hard in a match. Nobody truly expects perfection, however if the ref is working hard, we will all usually give them a bit of slack. Referees that do not take up for a kid referee. Don’t put a 14 year old kid right in front of parents, and then not defend that kid when parents are going off on them. Then, I really do not like it when parents go nuts on a kid referee. So many of these parents would go crazy if a teacher or coach treated their child the way they treat a kid referee. As I inferred earlier, I am very much on the side of parents keeping their mouths shut during the game, but you do have a point about refs that aren't working hard. It drives me crazy when I see an AR that is staring off into space and not staying in line with the deepest defender. I get that it can be boring ref'ing a younger age game sometimes, but when you can't call an obvious offside or direct who's ball it is on a throw in because you aren't paying attention, your simply providing these parents the ammunition they need to go off on the refs in the first place. Which, again, is not what I or anyone else likes to see. I don't care if it's a ref crew that allows a little more contact versus one that calls everything close... as long as they are focused and attempting to do their job to best they can, I'm fine. Side note: I have told my daughter "watch for what is being called and what isn't, and play accordingly".
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Nov 6, 2017 13:16:00 GMT -5
Yeah... I have yet to have seen malicious intent at the U8 thru U11 ages. Mostly awkwardness or a kid just realizing they are bigger and can use their size to gain an advantage. I have seen a yellow given out during a U10 game, and the girl was devastated... she had no intention of harming anyone. As for the parents, when I hear someone call for it in those younger ages, I just laugh, because I realize just how little they know or how over-the-top into it they really are.
Parents going after the refs could be easily remedied with the right kind of coach. For instance, one of my daughters coaches set the expectations at the beginning of the season, that we are not to have any outbursts (especially at the refs) and if we do, our child will receive less playing time. So this Saturday,we see one of the other teams' players extend the arms all the way out on one of our girls (shoving her to the ground) and our whole sideline blurts out some "Hey!" and "Come on!" comments ... with in seconds our coach reprimands everyone by simply yelling "Parents!" across the field.... immediately we shut up. He was going to handle it and we knew he was in charge, it was actually quite refreshing.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 25, 2017 10:14:07 GMT -5
So how do you go about changing the culture of pay to play? IS there a way?
I wish there was some soccer fanatical philanthropist that would start up a club that made it affordable to ALL youth players. I know this is corny, but I often think about what I would do if I ever won one of those Powerball lotteries.... I have dreamt of buying a prime, centrally located field (not some flood plain), paying top notch coaches and then charging (a bare minimum fee just to cover basics like uniforms and equipment) and open it up for anyone to come and play, putting the emphasis on the players and not the organization. Then, sit back and watch it flourish as a powerhouse.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 13, 2017 14:22:21 GMT -5
No question is a huge flaw with DA. So much structure, mandatory minimum 4 nights of training etc. I hear rumors of 5 nights of training at certain clubs. Scale back go 2 or 3 nights with a night dedicated to just free play, pickup. When was the last time you saw a bunch of DA players playing a pick up game. Kids are off on a weekend, no games, what happens -- coach schedules either a formal training session or scrimmage as replacement. No, open the damn fields, and just let the kids play. throw down something for goals, and play. A coach shouldn't be within 20 miles of these session. Let the kids play, have fun and enjoy the game without the fear of getting yelled out or traumatized because they couldn't trap a terrible pass. Agreed. I'm sure some of you have seen the Pulisic '60 minutes' interview where they say he only did 2 nights a week growing up. Instead our system doubles down again and again thinking quantity of training is more important than quality of training. Maybe they think they have to justify the outrageous cost by coaching more days... IDK!! I'm just a frustrated dad watching what once was a fun, enjoyable sport being changed into a stressful, all-or-nothing, business world.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 13, 2017 12:37:07 GMT -5
Sounds like a bad club, tryouts in June are just around the corner so start looking for a club that focuses on coaching and not just getting paid. What is it that makes it a bad club in your eyes? Is it the charging for 3 practices instead of 2? or is it that they have open play on one the nights? fyi, I'm not related to whatever club this person is referencing, ours doens't have an open night.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 13, 2017 8:30:57 GMT -5
Yeah, but why do so many DA kids commit to NCAA? I think it's because they feel they've reached the end of the "pro" track. Now they have to deal with the realization that College is the next best thing. This is why many folks take Atlanta United up on their offer. AU's first goal is to build for the top team, however if they fail, then you have a good opportunity to show well for colleges and possibly get an education. I had a coach who would always say, the best players in the world with the proper training, diet, genetics and luck, can play till their 40s, what then? You still need an education of some sort to help you for your second life. What Futsal said.... I know as a parent I would be pushing my kid towards college just from the shear statistics of it. The percentage of players that make a career out of professional sports vs getting an education that will support them for the rest of their life, its a no-brainer from my perspective.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 13, 2017 8:25:02 GMT -5
But that is what is so damn interesting - why are nba and nfl college prospects so damn hungry to make it and prove they are the best. Why is soccer so much different, does it come down to the failure and inadequacies of the mens college game? It always reminds me of Mike Fisher, back to back Hermann Trophy Winner and 2nd pick over all in the MLS college draft back in the 90s. He declined to join the team and instead went to Med School. Could it be that for NBA and NFL prospects, they see it as there way out of the environments they grew up in? Even though I hate to admit it, soccer is a much more "elitist" sport with many of the kids coming from affluent homes and backgrounds. It is stressed upon them that education is the way to maintain that lifestyle. This affluence also lends itself to the upward spiral of pay-to-play mentality which is much more prevalent. On a side story, you reminded me of a player from FSU named Myron Rolle that was predicted go in the first round of the NFL and turned it down to become a Rhodes scholar over at Oxford University in England and is now a neurosurgeon. Atypical to say least but an incredible story too.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 12, 2017 10:37:34 GMT -5
Our players skills are better because the have been developed with better training and an emphasis placed on "development". Our players winning mentality not so much.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 11, 2017 11:08:54 GMT -5
Although I ultimately agree with the majority of your comments and give it a "thumbs up" I am also sick of hearing that "Americans" have a "win only" mentality. You CAN have both.... a DEVELOPMENT and WINNING mentality.... and, no, it shouldn't come at the cost of an arm and a leg. I don't know what others mean specifically when they talk about winning vs development, but in my opinion they are often at odds with each other. A few examples: - "important" time in games (starting, last few minutes of a close game) not shared amongst players even when the game itself is not meaningful. Getting time in those situations is critical to developing important game skills that cannot be simulated.
- academy programs that do not pool but rather pick set teams that practice in isolation (a scrimmage or two doesn't count). Pooling players in the younger ages where the games do not matter gives a player-level pro/rel that pushes players in a way that non-pool play cannot
- overemphasis on choosing early puberty players, labeling them as the top players, and pushing down the late bloomers that may have skills and strong soccer sense but simply cannot compete physically against the players that develop physically earlier.
The last one is the worst to me. I saw it time and time again that late bloomers were dismissed in favor of early bloomers that were bigger, stronger, and faster -- the early bloomers got great results! Many of the early bloomers went on to be successful while just as many flamed out once everyone else caught up with them. But the early bloomers get the best minutes, the best training (top teams), and the mental boost of success that can make or break some kids. Other than giving up our "win at all costs" mentality, the only way to solve this is to place players based on biological age rather than chronological age. This would, of course, increase the cost of play. There are no magic answers.
It's funny, I, for the most part, agree with your bullet points. In fact, one of my daughters is currently fighting that belief that because she is smaller, she isn't able to contend with the bigger girls. Doesn't matter that she plays with an aggressiveness and a passion that puts the bigger girls to shame and "wins her the day" on most occasions. She still is perceived as too small most times she steps out on the field of play. It isn't until people see her play that they realize she belongs. Unfortunately, when tryouts are for 3 days with 1-2 hours each, and because they are all at the same freaking date/time (a whole other dumb idea for another discussion) it is hard for her to catch the eyes of those that have already marked her off their list for her size alone. Still I don't see it as a them having a "winning" mentality because they may pass her by, but rather a lack of understanding, willingness and time, to give her a fair evaluation. As for having your best players on the field at the end of the game... I see no harm in that. Yes, you're objective in a game is to "WIN". If a player wants to be given the opportunity to be out there when it counts, they show that in practice, where the "development" mentality happens. Oh , and I agree on pool players as well. It should be that way... in fact, I think it should be that way all the way through at least U13 and probably U14 at least. Let the "winning" mentality of the players show who should be on the field and on which 'level' team, weekly, at practice.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 11, 2017 10:29:47 GMT -5
So the easiest way to increase the competition in DA is to reduce its size. But there are still entire regions of the country that are not served by DA clubs. You could have a Pulisic-level talent coming through the ranks in North Dakota and chances are no one would notice until he's in his 20's. Unless, of course, his family has the resources to be able to send him hundreds of miles away to play for an MLS club and live with a host family. Even free-to-play clubs are really only free-to-play for kids that have access to affordable transportation to whatever facility they play at. And only a few MLS clubs are even willing to put in that level of scouting for finding young talent (hopefully this failure changes that). No doubt, we've been saying it for years, look at the map, apparently if your live in Tenn, South Carolina, Arkansas, Miss, Louisiana, Alabama your not good enough.... Hence, whey so many have come to Atlanta. www.ussoccerda.com/2017-boys-u-15-17-19-club-mapYet, places like Iceland and other small countries can develop talent with a population of less than a million people. I'm not buying the argument that the USMNT is not good because we don't identify talent because of geography or because our best athletes are playing other sports. Sure it sucks for the kids that do live in those parts of the country where there isn't an MLS or DA club near by, but we have an over abundance of players and a population to pull from. On a side note: I don't have the answers, but one thing we don't have is a fully developed minor league system. The NFL, NBA, and MLB all have this.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 11, 2017 10:09:41 GMT -5
It's a fine mess. All points well made above. Hard to watch my son's disappointment last night. He still loves the game. But, it's hard for me also to avoid thinking that we are all just spinning our wheels here. I'm tired of the parent vs. club blame game ("pay to play", blah blah blah). While coaches and clubs have to put up with the AMERICAN-WIN-WIN mentality, some of us parents are innocently trying to navigate the system that allowed all of these leagues, levels, etc. It's time for the USSF to place a tourniquet on USSDA, reduce/control the number of teams so it will actually accomplish its mission. And honestly, ODP should cherry pick from the USSDA player pool. Everything else should be intra state soccer. Although I ultimately agree with the majority of your comments and give it a "thumbs up" I am also sick of hearing that "Americans" have a "win only" mentality. You CAN have both.... a DEVELOPMENT and WINNING mentality.... and, no, it shouldn't come at the cost of an arm and a leg. I'm right there with you and everyone else trying to navigate the system, I just wish youth soccer hadn't become a big business instead of what it should be... a sport that is passed on by generations because of the love of the game and a desire to see the passion for it live on.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 3, 2017 13:06:13 GMT -5
soccer = end of season school/teacher = every week or two
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 3, 2017 12:43:15 GMT -5
If coaches are coaching the kids properly - as showcased in the video above - there's not a problem. That video shows some nice soccer and there isn't any disruption of play. As to offside, the player still has to keep in mind the last defender. It's just now, the build out line will is used to denote where offside offenses can be called. The same principles are in effect. Positioning etc. has to change accordingly, but that's on the coach to take care of and have the kids understand. We will have to agree to disagree. Half-field for offside is not the same as the build out line for offside. It makes the defenders have to stay back three-forths of the way back down the field (positioning). If you've watched a U9 game lately, you would see they don't have the strongest of legs or accuracy to make the drop back pass (at that distance) an option and therefore, there is no way the defenders can support the midfield and visa versa. There is no "connection" between the defense and midfield lines and you leave gaps in coverage between the two team lines. It simply doesn't promote passing, switching fields (left to right, etc), overlapping, working as a unit... it promotes the opposite.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 3, 2017 10:40:16 GMT -5
I'm not knocking the city of Nashville, it's just not a big market in comparison to other cities. However, comparing the Thrashers to United as far as supporters is like comparing apples to oranges.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 3, 2017 10:04:31 GMT -5
Nashville is a likely spot for MLS??? REALLY??? Kinda shocked that it would be considered a thriving location for soccer and MLS... but I suppose some said that about Atlanta too... Still, youth soccer has always been thriving in Atlanta... I don't know much about the Nashville scene, just don't hear much about it's youth programs.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 3, 2017 9:09:04 GMT -5
Ultimately, I could take it or leave it... I don't mind the concept of the build out line. I've seen too many games where a field player, whose turn it is to be in goal (many of which have no idea how to play goalie), can't get the ball out of the penalty box and teams just intercept and score at will. It frustrating and sad for the players and a team that plays proper soccer to lose a game that way. But if they are going with this concept, they need to think it through and apply sound logic to the rule. (I know... good luck with that, right?)
As I found out this past weekend (and as I think the OP mentioned) it also allows for the attacking team to be in an offside position and not get 'called' because of the build-out line. Crazy! In my daughters game, the team had two players about 5 yards past our last defender and a ball was booted up the field... allowing for a two-on-one against the goalie. Needless to say everyone yells 'offside' and the ref had to explain they are are not offside due to the new rule.
So how does that teach anything properly?? If they had been just few feet farther up the field and past the line, then it WOULD have been called? So your teaching them to ignore the last defender and only focus on this line, but only when you're on that one quarter of the field, then when you pass that line... THEN you focus on the last defender in the final quarter of the field. How does that help when they move to U11 & up and there is no line anymore. These are 8-9 year olds, simplify the concepts, don't make them harder.
Furthermore, as a defender you now can't safely push up the field because even though an opponent is in an offside position (as it use to be), they are no longer offside. This essentially forces them to have to maintain a position at the new build out line. How does that help the player "connect" with the rest of their team when they have possession? Instead of being able to play it back to the defender (because they now have to sit too far back), the midfielder or forwards have to turn into pressure. Not good soccer tactics in my opinion.
So in conclusion, if they are going with the build out line, at least change the attacking portion to make sense.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Sept 15, 2017 14:18:25 GMT -5
Some sensitive souls on here I take it... How dare anyone not think Tophat is the end all, be all... LOL I was just playing ... responding back with recognition that a program (meaning OVERALL program) that sweeps a tourney like the State cup is a top quality one in it's own right. We all know Tophat is top quality as well with its history and reputation... just know that reputation from "outsiders perceptions" also has attributes perceived as arrogance and entitlement.
|
|